CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #8

[oceanstarryeyes]

It is just as likely RT was driving her to catch an "early" flight to HK to surprise her ailing brother.

If BT wanted to leave in secret she wouldn’t wait until they were in the hot desert, wearing a bikini and without any personal belongings along with having miles to walk in the dangerous heat.
It would be easier to leave from home at night.

 

[Leney]

Yes - me too. In fact, that was my main bet, but a couple of people here pointed out that unless they were actually on top of the Granite Mountains/Hills, that might not be visible? I don't know. I really want to go out there. Am hoping to get a look in late December/early January.

I think I can find some people who work at Sweeney on Twitter, now that I think about it - pass on the missing poster and the press releases. They're in the immediately area and many do research that requires walking about...

I suspect that there was more than one stop.
This research center have weekend sessions, conferences that can hold up to 40 individuals.
Research is constantly being done in this area.
If arriving from the I40, this could of been one potential area to stop.

Additional info at this link:

Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center

 

[al66pine]

Polygraph Test, When Given?

What day did he take the polygraph? He was kept inside LEs car for 4 to 5 hours being questioned after tracking back looking for BT after hiking, plus his age, he could have been mentally exhausted if it was on the day she went missing.

@oceanstarryeyes Thanks for your post. bbm I'm not sure which day RT took PolyGraph Test, but do not think it was same day BT went missing.
For one thing, LE got to the turn-out in late afternoon, and second, per RT, he was in LE vehicle for 5 hrs that day so those two factors don't allow much time for the PGT.
Annnnd w RT's stmt (my paraphrasing - I did not get any sleep last night) on TV interview, seems he was trying to imply - no sleep because BT was gone/abducted, he did not do well on PGT.
jmo

I think some posters narrowed down the PGT to 2-3 days, can't remember which/who. Where are you? @10ofRods? Or ???

 

[Cherwell]

It still wasn’t his trip or his flight to cancel.

Like I said - Flights can be rebooked.
I just don't see anything suspicious in cancelling the bookings, and I believe most people would do the same in those circumstances. It may not even have been his idea; someone else might have prompted him to do it.

 

[Leney]

If I took a polygraph and LE concluded I was being 'deceptive' and let's say, in the future, someone were to claim I knew a particular something (a something about which one of the polygraph questions covered) and LE caught me in that lie I could claim 'I was tired, lack of sleep' when they administered the polygraph to cover my butt. That would work... right? Right?

Is there precedence?

This is pseudo science at best.
There are compelling reasons the Courts will not accept them as evidence.
I suspect LE uses them simply as an interrogation method.
I equate them with Statement Analysis.

MOO

 

[Leney]

My dog does not like the Kennel or the Vet. Not even a Bath !
He has 4 paws out keeping me from getting him through the front door of the place.
He wont stop barking after I leave and I have had the kennel call me to come get him as he is disruptive to the other guests
In reality to what you posted..
I find a tasteful sense of Humor is often needed when dealing with hard subjects like a missing person. Who we may not know, but for one reason or another we do care about them. That is why we come together at this forum.

I would be looking for a different one then

ETA
A sense of humour is required, even if it's like mine which is dry'ish, and sarcastic'ish

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Like I said - Flights can be rebooked.
I just don't see anything suspicious in cancelling the bookings, and I believe most people would do the same in those circumstances. It may not even have been his idea; someone else might have prompted him to do it.

That put a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

This is pseudo science at best.
There are compelling reasons the Courts will not accept them as evidence.
I suspect LE uses them simply as an interrogation method.
I equate them with Statement Analysis.

MOO

It seems a few are missing my underlying point.... oh well.

 

[Leney]

It seems a few are missing my underlying point.... oh well.

Perhaps ?
Don't believe I am missing the underlying connotation.

 

[Kapua]

There are a number of posts about lack of sleep and tiredness as a factor in not 'passing' a polygraph upthread, but nothing conclusive, IIRC, such as a precedent. It's still a valid claim, IMO, as this is easily found as a factor if you do an internet search:
"Other Factors that May Affect a Polygraph
Other factors that can cause a false positive aren’t medical in nature. If you’re extremely tired – because you’re coming off 24 hours or more without sleep, for example – this can affect test results, either positively or negatively. "
Conditions That Can Cause a False Positive on a Polygraph Test

I totally agree that polygraphs are not 100% accurate; actually, I think that is universally understood.
However, in this particular case, I would be more inclined to doubt the veracity of RT's alleged polygraph results if any of the rest of his story or actions made sense to me. IMHO

 

[MsBetsy]

LE & RT Going Thru Photos, When? Photos Taken When?

@MsBetsy Thanks for your post. bbm
When/which day was first time our VI @dbdb11 "called Robert?"
IIRC, not the day BT went missing, but a few days later.
Where were LE & RT during "going through"session?
- LE's RV command center at search site?
- LE (sub)station, maybe where they admin'ed RT the polygraph test?
- RT's home? Did SanB Co CA LE ever visit his AZ home?
- Elsewhere?

@MsBetsy, like you, I wonder when ^photos were shot. Where?
Did LE ask for photo of BT to circulate, maybe to SAR team or MSM?
Did RT voluntarily provide his non-phone camera to LE for reviewing pix? Did her provide memory card/SD card for them to copy or to keep?
Did RT voluntarily provide his phone w camera to LE for reviewing pix? Did her provide memory card/SD card for them to copy or to keep?
Would RT voluntarily give phone for LE to keep indefinitely?
IF LE & RT were "going through" pix for SAR or media, seems RT could have emailed 1-2-3+ pix to them, on the spot, no need to provide cam or phone to LE to keep indefinitely.
If RT had ready engaged atty before "going through" pix session, would he have been talking directly to LE at that point?

If LE wanted pix/memory card for investigatory purposes other than MisPers, welll thennnn, would warrant/subpoena be required?
just rambling thoughts.

Actually I'm not sure he said it was the first time he spoke to him, but maybe the first time he called and someone else answered so RT couldn't come to the phone?
Maybe he will clarify but if I remember correctly, it was the same post where he said RT said he was having a hard time getting though to Hong Kong and it was better if he (his nephew) called him.
Apparently RT was busy and couldn't come to the phone because he was going through photos with LE. I thought it was the house phone but I'm not sure.
They may have been pictures of Barbara that they were looking at to decide which to release to the media for the missing persons poster.
So they could have been older pictures with her wearing a similar bikini that she was wearing when she went missing.
Or maybe they were pictures of her from that day. I don't think we know for sure.

In any case, yes, I would think LE would issue a warrant for the cell phone data or any other pictures even if RT gave them permission to view them, especially if they are evidence.
Imo

 

[Cherwell]

That put a bad taste in my mouth.

Why? Please explain. @oceanstarryeyes

Was it the mention of someone else? I was picturing a family member saying "Do you think we ought to cancel those travel arrangements, Dad/Uncle? She's gonna need some time to recover after she's found, isn't she?"

 

[Penny4YourThoughts]

WHERE IS BARBARA?

 

[Kapua]

WHERE IS BARBARA?

I don't know but as dbdb11 said upthread, we are NOT going to give up looking for her. MOO

 

[Cherwell]

DBM - typed in wrong box!

 

[ChuckMaureen]

It still wasn’t his trip or his flight to cancel.

Ah, but maybe he paid for it...

 

[MsBetsy]

I would be looking for a different one then

ETA
A sense of humour is required, even if it's like mine which is dry'ish, and sarcastic'ish

Although some dogs do have issues with separation anxiety.
Sounds like the dog in the OP had a very bad case. Imo

 

[al66pine]

Excuse for 'Deceptive' Conclusion on Polygraph? A Precedent?

If I took a polygraph and LE concluded I was being 'deceptive' and let's say, in the future, someone were to claim I knew a particular something (a something about which one of the polygraph questions covered) and LE caught me in that lie I could claim 'I was tired, lack of sleep' when they administered the polygraph to cover my butt. That would work... right? Right?
Is there precedence?

@ChuckMaureen Thanks for your post. I hope this addresses your question more directly than some of the earlier responses. If not, feel free to reword your question, so we try to better respond.
1) You 'could claim' all you want over and over, for hours or days on end.
Whom are you going to tell - LE questioning/interviewing you?
2) Precedent?* A term usu applied by a court in rendering a decision, not to LE interrogations.
@Twistinginthewind provided info re research of effect of sleep deprivation on PGT subjects. Your no-sleep claim does not obligate LE to conclude that sleep deprivation is the cause of 'deceptive' results and that research does not mean you are entitled to a second PGT. LE is not precluded from believing you were being deceptive in your answers and can continue its investigation of you as a POI or suspect, and w sufficient evidence, you can be arrested, indicted, etc. No precedent in legal sense.
3) More importantly: Information re your having taken a PGT and the results are not admissible as evd in court, so not a factor in DA/Prosecutor trying to prove your guilt in the crime charged. IOW, if you have a perfectly legit, science-backed, peer-reviewed, research-supported reason for 'flunking' PGT, so what? Not going to be admitted in evidence.
jmo, could be wrong.
-------------------------------------------------------
* Precedent legal definition of precedent - Legal Dictionary
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/precedent
Precedent. A court decision that is cited as an example or analogy to resolve similar questions of law in later cases. The Anglo-American common-law tradition is built on the doctrine of Stare Decisis ("stand by decided matters"), which directs a court to look to past decisions for guidance on how to decide a case before it.

 

[al66pine]

dbm.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Excuse for 'Deceptive' Conclusion on Polygraph? A Precedent?

@ChuckMaureen Thanks for your post. I hope this addresses your question more directly than some of the earlier responses. If not, feel free to reword your question.
1) You 'could claim' all you want over and over, for hours or days on end.
Whom are you going to tell - LE questioning/interviewing you?
2) Precedent?* A term usu applied by a court in rendering a decision, not to LE interrogations.
@Twistinginthewind provided info re research of effect of sleep deprivation on PGT subjects. Your no-sleep claim does not obligate LE to conclude that sleep deprivation is the cause of 'deceptive' results and that research does not mean you are entitled to a second PGT; LE is not precluded from believing you were being deceptive in your answers and can continue its investigation of you as a POI or suspect, and w sufficient evidence, you can be arrested, indicted, etc.
3) More importantly: Information re your having taken a PGT and the results are not admissible as evd in court, so not a factor in DA/Prosecutor trying to prove your guilt in the crime charged. IOW, if you have a perfectly legit, science-backed, peer-reviewed, research-supported reason for 'flunking' PGT, so what? Not going to be admitted in evidence.
jmo, could be wrong.
-------------------------------------------------------
* Precedent legal definition of precedent - Legal Dictionary
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/precedent
Precedent. A court decision that is cited as an example or analogy to resolve similar questions of law in later cases. The Anglo-American common-law tradition is built on the doctrine of Stare Decisis ("stand by decided matters"), which directs a court to look to past decisions for guidance on how to decide a case before it.

My post was of the 'facetious' variety. I was being coy in attempting to make a point at which, it seems, I was quite unsuccessful in implementing.