CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

[wary]

hi all,
popping into say i've had several hits on my previous cold calls to journalists, with a few ready and eager to take on the case. i've reached out to dbdb11 to see if/how Barb's family want to engage.

i've been having some issues checking my inbox, viewing notifications, and accessing the site in general...so i thought i might ask you all here to direct his attention to this post if you see him back here.

@dbdb11 Check out the quoted post.

 

[nannymo]

Just my opinion, but to me the waving of the arms is odd. When you go looking for someone in a crowd, far away or a distance from you, you don't start waving your arms until you see the person and try to get their attention with your movements. Otherwise, you just call their name or look until you see them. That's when you throw your hands or arms up! I have no opinion about RT but I find some of his comments "off". He could have some early dementia going on which makes his comment odd to us also.

 

[Yvettea]

Just my opinion, but to me the waving of the arms is odd. When you go looking for someone in a crowd, far away or a distance from you, you don't start waving your arms until you see the person and try to get their attention with your movements. Otherwise, you just call their name or look until you see them. That's when you throw your hands or arms up! I have no opinion about RT but I find some of his comments "off". He could have some early dementia going on which makes his comment odd to us also.

Agreed. Nothing wrong with waving your arms but if they can’t see the shiny 40’ camper you’re standing by, they won’t see you. IMO MOO JMO

 

[noel leon]

@dbdb11 Check out the quoted post.

derek.bullen@gmail.com <modsnip>

 

[LietKynes]

I thought the VI stated he did not know RT very well as he had only visited Barbara and RT about 15 years ago?
What examples did he give as Robert not being fully accurate and what was the context of the conversation?
Was it direct observations or just what he heard from other people?
It seems to me that no-one knows much about Robert at all.

Barbara's son has made some very serious accusations against him but we have yet to see any evidence or even any indication that he was involved in their lives at all.
Do we even know if her son has even met RT in the fifteen years they have been together?

Do we know the extent of his relationship with his mother over the last 10 or 15 years? He claims he has communicated with her on-line, but we have no idea if that's true it not. Imo

All good questions ! ^^^^

Check out the VI's posts in thread #8.
Here's a breakdown of one of his posts : #331

".....Robert never asked any family in HK if Barb had reached out.
Robert told family in HK to cancel hotel.
Statement analyst judged Robert's media statements strongly indicate deception.

Robert referred to pullout as crime scene.
Robert referred to himself as prime suspect when LE said nothing of the sort.
Robert has two ex wives besides one deceased.
Slight inconsistencies in Robert's account of events lend to disbelief.
Suspicious behavior noted by family while on holiday together with Robert.

Robert does not like to spend time in many public places.
Robert (nor Barb) never mentioned airplane to our family.
Robert has history with sketchy company.
Robert never walks the dog.
Robert doesn't often say hello to neighbors.

Robert's media responses seem practiced and scripted.
Robert wanted to purchase lots to either side of his house for greater privacy.

Robert tried to distance Barb from her own son.
Despite suspecting his wife was abducted Robert never told Barb's son.
Despite suspecting his wife was abducted Robert never put forward a reward.
Robert's description of waving his arms is patently ridiculous....."

Added bolding and punctuation for emph.

There is nothing wrong with wanting privacy or being secretive.

Except in the case of the VI and Barbara's family-- now is not the time.

Her family is hurting and need to know that everyone who knew Barbara is doing everything they can in their power to find her.

Sounds like the VI has some questions of his own and I don't know if they've been answered.
Imo.

 

[1&2&3]

Tonight while reading the Jennifer Dulos thread, the mention of her separated husband saying when she first disappeared that she had been abducted rang a bell in my head!

Hmm, just like RT saying Barbara Thomas has been abducted. That thought is too close for comfort for me!

In the Jennifer Dulos case, we have her blood evidence to suspect she is dead. However, in BT’s case, we have nothing, just her husband’s word.

<modsnip>
JMO.

 

[LietKynes]

What examples did he give as Robert not being fully accurate and what was the context of the conversation?

BBM
Snipped for focus.

Agreed and very sensitively stated, @MsBetsy.
The VI has in a past thread here that he believes RT has a "...history of lying..."
This is his opinion; but as a family member it could carry some weight.
The posts of the VI could be brought over to this thread -- but it's better to reread the VI's posts --- he has much to say about RT's behavior and their families' interactions with him.
A window into the soul, if you will.
The main focus is finding Barbara.

 

[al66pine]

Waving Arms for Attention?

I went to the store earlier and my husband waited in the car. I came out and forgot where we parked. Then I saw him afar standing and waving his arms!! I spotted him immediately. It's a natural instinct to get someone to see you. I believed RT did that as soon as I heard him say it. It gives him credibility in my books.

@kay74 Thanks for your post. Sometimes waving may be instinct, but I wonder if your situation actually paralleled RT's.

Did RT say he waived his arms when---
- he saw BT?
- he was looking around trying to see her?
- he saw BT and was trying to get her to see him?
{{{ETA: - he did not see BT but was trying to get her - wherever she was - to see him?}}}
I did quick search for his exact quote, did not find. Anyone? Thx in adv.

In ^ scenario, husband was waiting for you, (presumably) not intensely occupied w something else, was expecting you to come from a certain place/ direction (the store door), and when he saw you, (presumably) saw you turning head, looking for car/him, waved his arms. If he did not see you, would he have stood there waving arms?
Although you had forgotten where car was parked, (presumably) you had an idea of gen direction to look for it (not behind the store, etc), so when you looked in that direction, you were likely to spot him, there whether or not he waved his arms.
jmo, a small poss difference.

 

[distracted]

I haven't posted here for awhile but I still follow and read here daily. I don't have anything to add that's important or helpful. I did send out emails from the lists posted. I didn't hear back from anybody. I hesitated to do that because I'm all the way across the country in Virginia so I wasn't surprised. It really bothers me that a seventy year old woman can disappear without a trace. Be searched for for nine days and then not another word from LE, the media, her husband, nobody. I really feel sad for our VI, his father and family. Are cases where people disappear on a hike, etc., usually handled this way? I don't think I've ever followed a case like this before.

I haven't. The only similarity to other cases, that I see, is the "disappeared without a trace" aspect.

I, too, am really bothered how this could happen. And the silence is deafening. I understand why LE is not talking but I sure wish we would hear something.

 

[slowpoke]

Waving Arms for Attention?

@kay74 Thanks for your post. Sometimes waving may be instinct, but I wonder if your situation actually paralleled RT's.

Did RT say he waived his arms when---
- he saw BT?
- he was looking around trying to see her?
- he saw BT and was trying to get her to see him?
{{{ETA: - he did not see BT but was trying to get her - wherever she was - to see him?}}}
I did quick search for his exact quote, did not find. Anyone? Thx in adv.

In ^ scenario, husband was waiting for you, (presumably) not intensely occupied w something else, was expecting you to come from a certain place/ direction (the store door), and when he saw you, (presumably) saw you turning head, looking for car/him, waived his arms. If he did not see you, would he have waved arms?
Although you had forgotten where car was parked, (presumably) you had an idea of gen direction to look for it (not behind the store, etc), so when you looked in that direction, you were likely to spot him, there whether or not he waved his arms.
jmo, a small poss difference.

The quote was from the Inside Edition article.

(Bolded by me):
“When he reached the corner and didn’t see her, he assumed he’d find her sitting outside their camper, he said. But when he got to the vehicle, the door was locked.

"I hollered her name and I waved my arms, and I looked around the area and I saw that she wasn’t anywhere around. She didn't respond. I got really panicky," he said.”

Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Well he was waving and calling her name. I think that's what I would do.

Actually I think that's a reasonable thing for him to have done.

It seemed odd at first but I think that's because we're reading about it with 20/20 hindsight of knowing that she hasn't been found and wasn't probably in sight of him when he did that.

If I were in RT's supposed situation and I got back to the RV and the person who had gone on ahead wasn't there, I might reasonably think that one option was that (after using the potty, gotten water, whatever their reason had been for going ahead) they might have gone back out on the trail to rejoin me.

And in that case, I want them to know that I'm now down here at the RV. Even though I haven't spotted them, I would be thinking they could possibly be eyeballing the RV every now and then to see if I'm there yet.

So him waving his arms isn't to say "here is the RV/safety" but rather to say "I'm back at the RV already, don't want you to think I'm still on the trail"

Just a theory MOO IMO

 

[al66pine]

Waving Arms?

Well he was waving and calling her name. I think that's what I would do.

Hello again, @kay74.
So you think you would do what RT said he did to try to find BT.
If your husband was there within earshot and eyesight, it just might work. jmo
{{{ETA: OTOH, if he was not within earshot or eyesight, well who knows????

Per @slowpoke, a few posts up, from Inside Edition.
“When he reached the corner and didn’t see her, he assumed he’d find her sitting outside their camper, he said. But when he got to the vehicle, the door was locked.
"I hollered her name and I waved my arms, and I looked around the area and I saw that she wasn’t anywhere around. She didn't respond..." he said.”
Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'}}}

 

[AnnaGrace]

<modsnip - broken quote removed>

@AnnaGrace Thanks for your post, sbm, which made me think about how this is different.
In some MisPers cases w person reported in wilderness/forest/desert/bush or other remote, isolated place (unlikely to be seen by anyone), there is often a time gap of a couple days or even weeks, before LE gets an MP report and before searches begin. W those long time gaps, seems easier to understand why searches take a long time to find person or remains, or yield no remains, even for months or years. Besides time gap, sometimes, there is no clear starting point for LE & SAR to begin searches.

BT's circumstance is unusual imo, because RT made MisPers report within ~1-2-3(?) hours, the starting point/Last Place Seen was definitive (per RT but no other known witnesses), and search began within a few hours.

Usually handled this way? Searches for BT were extensive, imo, ~8-9 days, and heavily staffed imo, and well equipped imo, w LE command post, RV, dogs, 4 wheelers/ ATVs, helicopters, etc. - for a relatively small (imo) area. W the extreme Mojave temperatures, finding her within a given period was a matter of life and death, and in searching, LE & SAR were risking illness and possibly death themselves. IIUC, w this passage of time being incompatible w BT's survival in the desert, LE has postponed further searches, which would be recovery missions, until weather is more forgiving. Also Sheriff reassigned case to other investigatory unit.
And in the meantime, LE has other cases to work and solve.
All jmo, could be wrong.[/QUOTE]

Thank you al66pine for your reply.
My question, and maybe I didn't make it clear, is not about the actual physical search. LE and SAR and all searchers did a superb job. They put in many long hours in the extreme heat and gave it their all. There was no more they could have done. And I know LE has other cases to work. My question is, after the search ends, what is done usually? Surely, the missing person is not just forgotten about and no more done and not mentioned again? Hopefully, something is happening that we don't know about? Or will it just be like this until somebody comes across the body at some point? I just don't remember following a case where there's just nothing and nobody saying anything. I'm not criticizing. I'm puzzled.

 

[al66pine]

@AnnaGrace Thanks for clarifying your question, which I apparently misunderstood (or may just been dense or both. lol). Some of my thoughts in red, in your post and w some bbm.

Thank you al66pine for your reply. My question, and maybe I didn't make it clear, ....after the search ends, what is done usually?
Well, I don't think this is a "usually" kind of case.
Surely, the missing person is not just forgotten about and no more done and not mentioned again?
No, not usu. Often the MisPers' fam & loved ones use soc media and MSM to keep MP's name in front of public, hoping that one critical clue is called into LE directly or thru CrimeStoppers type groups, to break the case. RT is not following the herd on that. But, rare, ime, for LE to make public stmt. What can they say, besides --- investigation is ongoing? Arresting and prosecuting w no remains means no cause of death and no manner of death, so is a high barrier, altho occasionally done. See nobodymurdercases.com
LE may or may not want word out that they are closing in on a suspect, so may or may not want to say so.
Hopefully, something is happening that we don't know about?
Yes, at end of intensive search, sheriff said he reassigned case to an investigatory unit, within his dept/office. Presumably some detectives or investigators are/have been interviewing ppl, securing phone & bank records, other elec. records re cell tower pings, etc. to identify signs of foul play/criminal actions, whether pointing to RT or to abductors, et al.
Or will it just be like this until somebody comes across the body at some point?
Be like this "quiet" from LE w no/few/limited release of info to public? Likely so, imo.
If/when remains are discovered, probably nothing from LE until the ID is officially made. If discovery of remains is leaked to media before then, LE may be goosed into saying -- remains located, no official ID yet.
I just don't remember following a case where there's just nothing and nobody saying anything.
If you follow enough crime news for three or four decades and read, oh, say, 1000+ true crime books, you'll likely see a few/some cases w loooong stretches where nobody, esp LE, says anything.
I'm not criticizing. I'm puzzled.
If puzzled about what the ultimate outcome will be, you are in good company w some of the rest of us. Hope this helps.

 

[oviedo]

The quote was from the Inside Edition article.

(Bolded by me):
“When he reached the corner and didn’t see her, he assumed he’d find her sitting outside their camper, he said. But when he got to the vehicle, the door was locked.

"I hollered her name and I waved my arms, and I looked around the area and I saw that she wasn’t anywhere around. She didn't respond. I got really panicky," he said.”

Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'

Why did he assume she would be sitting outside the camper ? Was it because the key wasn’t there for her to go inside? I find this odd IMO

 

[Jim_M]

Why did he assume she would be sitting outside the camper ? Was it because the key wasn’t there for her to go inside? I find this odd IMO

And why wouldn't she have retrieved the key they kept hidden, under the rock? As noted many times I realize. But still, where in this world has this woman gotten to? What has happened here? And why are there no answers to any of this?

If she was abducted, where are all the pleadings to MSM? Pleadings to anyone at all?! But IMO I digress as that is my opinion on how I would react if I believed my loved one had been abducted. I don't know if anyone requires a link to that hidden key under the rock. I know we went through some discussions on that one. Or my memory believes we did.

Either way, it would sure be nice to witness another type of 'Jayme' ending. Is that even possible here?

 

[Hair of the Dog]

RT yelled and waved his arms but never once mentioned honking the horn on the truck? It just seems like that is a sound that would carry much further than someone yelling and you could probably use the sound like an SOS with long and short blasts. He could have periodically and repeatedly honked the horn to get her attention in case she was in hearing range without ever leaving the turn out.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I think it is odd that he didn't flag down passing cars in both directions to ask if they had seen Barb. Nothing but time on his hands waiting for LE.

MOO, MOO, MOO!

 

[CSIDreamer]

Why did he assume she would be sitting outside the camper ? Was it because the key wasn’t there for her to go inside? I find this odd IMO

The keys were said to be hidden under a rock. But we've also been told they had the awning set up with chairs outside.

 

[bronbaby]

The keys were said to be hidden under a rock. But we've also been told they had the awning set up with chairs outside.

bizarre. as i thought it was only a stop off. why go to the bother of setting up the awning? hmmm....

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

RT yelled and waved his arms but never once mentioned honking the horn on the truck? It just seems like that is a sound that would carry much further than someone yelling and you could probably use the sound like an SOS with long and short blasts. He could have periodically and repeatedly honked the horn to get her attention in case she was in hearing range without ever leaving the turn out.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I think it is odd that he didn't flag down passing cars in both directions to ask if they had seen Barb. Nothing but time on his hands waiting for LE.

MOO, MOO, MOO!

Yes, and if he was desperately searching for her, all those people he could have flagged down would have been a search party of their own, in a way. That could have easily added so many people looking out for Barbara in either direction. So many pairs of eyes that could have helped find her.