Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[distracted]

I am thinking, if they got a Y, they have at least partial DNA. I also assume that if they have Y, they have mito DNA - it does not come from the nucleus, it comes from the cell “power stations” that are abundant in any cell. So Y + mito will give direct paternal and maternal line, that can narrow down the group of suspects.

I think the problem is something different. (And sadly, it might be something like what happened to me after my first amniocentesis - the power outage in Dynacare lab that night led to loss of 25 cultures. JMO because I don’t know what else it might be).

I fear contamination or a degradation but whatever it is, it is not enough at this time with the information they have.

And, unfortunately, that group of suspects isn't talking. Or, like me, they are confused by the sketches so have discounted any suspicion they might have.

 

[distracted]

This article from early on mentions DNA found. It also leads me to believe that LE would get a dna "profile" I wonder if this is where the second sketch truly came from. Could they have had high hopes that BG had his DNA in the system and were wrong? If BG knows his dna is not in the system it would be logical to send a message making him believe that witnesses came up with the sketch. Could the term "just beginning" from April mean they decided to try the familial dna, which is time consuming as they didn't get the hit they hoped and expected?
DNA evidence is top priority in Delphi murder investigation

I've wondered the same about the second sketch. The technology is available and it's often quite good, too.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Rehash of a point here, but it goes to clarity.

Is the BG seen in the video - and the voice captured in the audio - the same person?

Starting at around 7:45 of this 3/5/17 video, while discussing suspect vs. suspects, ISP Capt Bursten seems to say it may not be.

“People want to make the assumption that the voice saying down the hill belongs to the person in the image that’s captured from the cell phone. That’s not necessarily the case. We’re not making any assumptions about that.”

Yet, Sgt Carter clearly says yes after the PC.

“Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."

ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Delphi killer

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I agree. There was a guy who came from Logansport on the day all the roads were blocked, just to visit the trails and bridge and reporters spoke to him at the time and he just had to turn back. I have posted the article before and it is in the media thread. Can't find it now though. I think your circle is about right. Logansport to Lafayette at least. This does not include persons who live way outside that area and return to visit family.

Really tricky would be, if the killer escaped "very quickly" and returned "just from Logansport to visit" ....... and didn't get named because of consideration "with regard these special circumstances" ......

 

[distracted]

Rehash of a point here, but it goes to clarity.

Is the BG seen in the video - and the voice captured in the audio - the same person?

Starting at around 7:45 of this 3/5/17 video, while discussing suspect vs. suspects, ISP Capt Bursten seems to say it may not be.

“People want to make the assumption that the voice saying down the hill belongs to the person in the image that’s captured from the cell phone. That’s not necessarily the case. We’re not making any assumptions about that.”

Yet, Sgt Carter clearly says yes after the PC.

“Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."

ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Delphi killer

SBM from the video @ 7:49.

"What we have publicly addressed is people want to make the assumption that the voice saying, "down the hill" belongs to the person that's captured in the image from the cell phone. That's not necessarily the case. We're not making any assumptions about that."

Notice that he used the word "publicly," which infers that they may be saying something else "privately," which is likely why he backed off of that statement later.

For some time, it's been my understanding that LE had additional video confirming, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that OBG was the killer. And I have no reason at all to doubt that.

But this video now makes me question whether or not he was alone. It would explain why there are two sketches of seemingly different people in almost all respects but especially in age. There must be witnesses who saw both of the men depicted in the sketches, in the area that day.

 

[steeltowngirl]

SBM from the video @ 7:49.

"What we have publicly addressed is people want to make the assumption that the voice saying, "down the hill" belongs to the person that's captured in the image from the cell phone. That's not necessarily the case. We're not making any assumptions about that."

Notice that he used the word "publicly," which infers that they may be saying something else "privately," which is likely why he backed off of that statement later.

For some time, it's been my understanding that LE had additional video confirming, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that OBG was the killer. And I have no reason at all to doubt that.

But this video now makes me question whether or not he was alone. It would explain why there are two sketches of seemingly different people in almost all respects but especially in age. There must be witnesses who saw both of the men depicted in the sketches, in the area that day.

Do you have a link for the bolded information?
Seems to disagree with this:

“Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies

ETA: My overall point being there is a lack of clarity in the information that actually has been released.

 

[distracted]

Do you have a link for the bolded information?
Seems to disagree with this:

“Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies

I'm not inferring that video tape guy is the same person depicted in the first sketch. They have never wavered about whether the person in the video is the killer. That is still true today. The only difference is they want people to pay particular attention to the voice saying "down the hill".

I will look for a link, though.

ETA: I just looked at the article you linked and it doesn't contradict what I'm saying.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I'm not inferring that video tape guy is the same person depicted in the first sketch. They have never wavered about whether the the person in the video is the killer. That is still true today. The only difference is they want people to pay particular attention to the voice saying "down the hill".

I will look for a link, though.

So, are you saying the original sketch was not BG on the bridge? Never was said to be?

"We’ve got the information out there, the pictures out there, now we’ve got this composite that we feel it is the same person and we just want to make sure that people realize this picture is this person ," Riley said.

Police release sketch of man accused of murdering Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams

 

[distracted]

So, are you saying the original sketch was not BG on the bridge? Never was said to be?

SBM from -
Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies

"Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

According to an ISP release, the new sketch of the clean-shaven man “is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge.”

This is what I was saying and am now saying. Sorry if I was unclear from the start.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

If I had the amount of time I think it would take to organize such a thing I would do it. Plus I just don’t have the know how or the connections I believe to do it. But if I could I would:

I would bring together all the sluethers and I mean all of them, from WS, you tubers, fb groups to all of the Regular podcast folks.

I would start a Go Fund Me and across all platforms mentioned above would ask people to make donations. It could be $1 to $200 or what ever one could afford.

I would hire a third party, law firm or accounting firm to handle the money raised so there are no questions as to who is responsible and keeping track of the funding.

I would find the best of the best private investigators with local knowledge and fund their work through the money raised through Go Fund Me.

Each group can complile information they think most useful and submit it to the investigator. The investgators client will be the Sluethers who have contributed and who have been working on the case. Each group will elect someone to represent them or a few people to represent them.

The actual sluethers will have a real opportunity to help solve this case.

I wish I could be this person who could organize such a thing but my day job is just to overwhelming. It would have to be someone like our very own WS Tricia. She is someone I believe has the skill set and connections to pull something like this off...

What do you guys think, crazy or maybe something to consider?

Edited to add: you tubers.

The perp/s could be among all these groups, that would be a problem.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The point here is simply this.

Folks on here have looked at every detail of this case for 2 1/2 years. If we aren’t clear, how does the general public deal with the sketches and audio?

The answer, IMO - is they don’t.

The information LE has released is designed for the one person, or inner circle of people, that are either not recognizing what they do know, or - more likely - are covering for a killer.

 

[distracted]

The point here is simply this.

Folks on here have looked at every detail of this case for 2 1/2 years. If we aren’t clear, how does the general public deal with the sketches and audio?

The answer, IMO - is they don’t.

The information LE has released is designed for the one person, or inner circle of people, that are either not recognizing what they do know, or - more likely - are covering for a killer.

I agree.

The article you posted attempted to clear up that confusion - and I think it did clear up a few issues - but, like you said, if we don't understand, chances are a lot of people don't understand.

 

[BNA]

Rehash of a point here, but it goes to clarity.

Is the BG seen in the video - and the voice captured in the audio - the same person?

Starting at around 7:45 of this 3/5/17 video, while discussing suspect vs. suspects, ISP Capt Bursten seems to say it may not be.

“People want to make the assumption that the voice saying down the hill belongs to the person in the image that’s captured from the cell phone. That’s not necessarily the case. We’re not making any assumptions about that.”

Yet, Sgt Carter clearly says yes after the PC.

“Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."

ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Delphi killer

Yeah. If I was one of the parents, this is a point where I would have about flipped out. "People" weren't making "the assumption" about this. It was clearly stated in the 4/22 presser. I cannot imagine myself having any confidence left in ISP at this point. These guys have been stepping on each others toes in public for quite some time. Perhaps this is why they no longer say much publicly. Something needs to be cleaned up, imho.

I would have been like: "You sand our daughter's names off your desk today, and you keep our name out of your mouth, and you make a bust or we will. Pray for yourself while you're at it."

 

[Spartygirl]

I watched most of GH latest. He said something I’ve never heard before.

He said the vehicle in question was not parked at the CPS building but in front along the street. So I think that would stand out to someone a little more.. a car parked along the street.

Well, I guess my issue is that LE specifically said the vehicle was parked in the lot of the old CPS building.
I have not heard LE retract that statement so I am not sure where GH is getting this other info and this is probably one reason this case has not been solved because most people are frustrated with LE and must think LE is lying to us about facts that they are giving to us, the public.
OR do they think LE is trying to get someone to say "oh..wait, No, that car/driver wasn't parked there, it was on side of the road, to which, LE KNEW that, and now the person is a POI ??
OR GH is speculating information but then everyone starts thinking what he is saying is true and forgets what LE told us. Probably another reason LE said the videos are incorrect. LOL

 

[Spartygirl]

I heard the same thing (deer story from KG). Didn’t the person who saw the deer use a phone camera to zoom into the area and that’s how the CS was originally discovered?

Yes, that is what we have been told since the beginning on how they spotted/found the girls. The deer sighting.
Now, they are changing up the story ??
Like I said, No wonder this case hasn't been solved..there are just too many conflicting stories floating around and it is so frustrating to all of us all over the world trying to help/figure this out and find BG !!
(PS--Love your avatar @sunsetbeach ) **

 

[susiQ]

I’ve considered this since the new sketch was released but surely they would be facing charges for providing false information to LE? But would they be too afraid to press charges in case people no longer called in tips? Or if this false witness person has gone missing would they not be hunting for them?



I feel the same way and I totally understand the frustration and major concern. He needs to be caught ASAP and he must not get away with murdering these two young women. I frequently think of all the memories and milestones the girls and their families have been denied because of the evil coward and it makes me furious. I wish there was something we could do even a social media campaign to get the sketch out or something.

I hear you, but I think the sketch in and of itself is a huge problem. How about take that sketch and then add some different hairstyle, like maybe bald, variations of spiked, straightened, military buzz whatever. Then, put a beard on it, a mustachio or a goatee. Let's face it, if that NBG sketch is remotely close to what the witness saw, that's NOT what NBG looks like 2 plus years later. Give us the same sketch with ALL the variations and see if that jogs any memories That's a lot of sketches to generate, but in this day and age it would be a breeze!

ETA: Any of you able to do such a thing? If not, I may try to find someone that can I know LE could, but I doubt they will! Actually, THEY SHOULD!

 

[FrostedGlass]

Has GH ever responded to LE statement that all the enactments are incorrect?

What could the incorrect parts be?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If I had the amount of time I think it would take to organize such a thing I would do it. Plus I just don’t have the know how or the connections I believe to do it. But if I could I would:

I would bring together all the sluethers and I mean all of them, from WS, you tubers, fb groups to all of the Regular podcast folks.

I would start a Go Fund Me and across all platforms mentioned above would ask people to make donations. It could be $1 to $200 or what ever one could afford.

I would hire a third party, law firm or accounting firm to handle the money raised so there are no questions as to who is responsible and keeping track of the funding.

I would find the best of the best private investigators with local knowledge and fund their work through the money raised through Go Fund Me.

Each group can complile information they think most useful and submit it to the investigator. The investgators client will be the Sluethers who have contributed and who have been working on the case. Each group will elect someone to represent them or a few people to represent them.

The actual sluethers will have a real opportunity to help solve this case.

I wish I could be this person who could organize such a thing but my day job is just to overwhelming. It would have to be someone like our very own WS Tricia. She is someone I believe has the skill set and connections to pull something like this off...

What do you guys think, crazy or maybe something to consider?

Edited to add: you tubers.

I think it’s an interesting idea and a lot of people would be signing on with it. We all would love to brainstorm, unimpeded, with fellow sleuthers I’m sure.
But since LE has released no real information I would fear it could turn into just a big speculation festival. Could a PI really investigate without LE claiming they were interfering?
All that being said...I’d donate!

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Has GH ever responded to LE statement that all the enactments are incorrect?

What could the incorrect parts be?

That statement by LE about everything being talked about being incorrect really irritated me. They plea for tips from the public but then say everything we talk about is wrong, so I would think, a lot of the tips they are getting are based on incorrect ideas. But LE has continued to allow the public to rant on with wrong information apparently. Smiling quietly to themselves I guess.
Wouldn’t it be better to correct the wrong ideas so LE gets better tips? Didn’t they give us a whole tutorial on what a good tip is? It makes no sense to me to perpetuate wrong information. Seems it would only make their job harder.

 

[Boxer]

Has GH ever responded to LE statement that all the enactments are incorrect?What could the incorrect parts be?

MOO It isn't much of a statement, "in-accurate" can mean a detail is wrong.
If police said the videos were wrong that would be interesting,