Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #48

[JLZ]

Interesting thoughts. Confusion over who was in which car? Brought about by the huge delay in any official report?

Mr Chapman did seem to be more concerned about hoon driving and an unsafe child. And I agree that his view of the person driving the 4WD was much quicker/shorter than his view might have been of the driver in the following car, according to the walkthrough video.

He apparently only saw the driver for a mere second or two before focusing on the child in the back, then refocusing on the blue car as it came around the corner.

I don't know--I actually thought it made sense that he didn't notice much about the blue car because his attention was pre-engaged with the side view of the 4WD. I imagine that watching the 4WD as it passed he looked away from the corner, and had less time to notice the blue car.

I think perhaps he exaggerated both the proximity to the other and the speed of the blue car; it was driving faster and more carelessly than he thought it ought to have been, he thought "and there's another one right after" because he was grumpy about so many hoons, and afterwards remembered them as being together when perhaps there wasn't much to link them really.

I wondered whether he originally did read the time as 9:50 and afterwards assumed he'd misread the clock, seeing that he believed the child was William and William was supposed to have disappeared at 10:30.

 

[JLZ]

Just another thought about this ... wondering what postie's route was on that day. And wondering if drsleuth heard any (non-suppressed) testimony about it. Maybe postie's usual route was via Mr Chapman's place first, before getting to Benaroon Drive area a little later on. (Judging by the Crabbs thinking of when they thought they heard postie.)

All I can recall reading/hearing is that postie submitted their schedule for that day to the police/inquest.

Maybe tgy can guestimate time delivery time gap between the two residences based on past postal experience.

In September 2014, were the Savages on the collect-their-own mail system? If so, did they normally call in to the post office every day? Did one of them collect mail on that Friday, and if so, was it Paul or Heather, what time, what vehicle?

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't know--I actually thought it made sense that he didn't notice much about the blue car because his attention was pre-engaged with the side view of the 4WD. I imagine that watching the 4WD as it passed he looked away from the corner, and had less time to notice the blue car.

I think perhaps he exaggerated both the proximity to the other and the speed of the blue car; it was driving faster and more carelessly than he thought it ought to have been, he thought "and there's another one right after" because he was grumpy about so many hoons, and afterwards remembered them as being together when perhaps there wasn't much to link them really.

I wondered whether he originally did read the time as 9:50 and afterwards assumed he'd misread the clock, seeing that he believed the child was William and William was supposed to have disappeared at 10:30.

From memory, almost as soon as he looked up and saw the 4WD from his front step it was almost outside his house kicking up gravel. He did not watch it continue up the street, and (I think he said, but might be wrong) instead continued looking in a forward direction - then saw the blue car whizzing around the corner 'almost on two wheels'.

He had mentioned that the 4WD was likely by the wheelie bin next door (in the walkthrough) when the blue car came around the bend.

I think his view of the driver of the 4WD would have been momentary, with the child seen for a bit longer than that - perhaps from outside his house to the position of the wheelie bin next door.

 

[JLZ]

From memory, almost as soon as he looked up and saw the 4WD from his front step it was almost outside his house kicking up gravel. He did not watch it continue up the street, and (I think he said, but might be wrong) instead continued looking in a forward direction - then saw the blue car whizzing around the corner 'almost on two wheels'.

He had mentioned that the 4WD was likely by the wheelie bin next door (in the walkthrough) when the blue car came around the bend.

I think his view of the driver of the 4WD would have been momentary, with the child seen for a bit longer than that - perhaps from outside his house to the position of the wheelie bin next door.

Thank you. I find it hard to follow audio in general and I could hardly understand a word in the video with Mr Chapman.

 

[they'll get you]

Just another thought about this ... wondering what postie's route was on that day. And wondering if drsleuth heard any (non-suppressed) testimony about it. Maybe postie's usual route was via Mr Chapman's place first, before getting to Benaroon Drive area a little later on. (Judging by the Crabbs thinking of when they thought they heard postie.)

All I can recall reading/hearing is that postie submitted their schedule for that day to the police/inquest.

Maybe tgy can guestimate delivery time gap between the two residences based on past postal experience.

Hiya SA.
Depending on the route the postie takes because it won’t be a direct route from Chapman’s to Beneroon as it could be a zigzag effect.
A ‘letter’ postie and a ‘small parcel’ postie has the same route day in and day out depending on the deliveries. The bike, the car or the van is prepacked to suit their route before the day begins and I had my addresses (drops) taped to the dash so I knew exactly where to go that day and the items were all in line to suit.
Let’s say there might be usually 20 deliveries along a section but there might be none that day so then that road is sidestepped then this makes for a early finish time.
The months leading up to Christmas a ‘small parcel’ postie can get hammered and return to the sorting area as not all parcels will fit in the van and the route will be done in 2 sections.

 

[they'll get you]

From memory, almost as soon as he looked up and saw the 4WD from his front step it was almost outside his house kicking up gravel. He did not watch it continue up the street, and (I think he said, but might be wrong) instead continued looking in a forward direction - then saw the blue car whizzing around the corner 'almost on two wheels'.

He had mentioned that the 4WD was likely by the wheelie bin next door (in the walkthrough) when the blue car came around the bend.

I think his view of the driver of the 4WD would have been momentary, with the child seen for a bit longer than that - perhaps from outside his house to the position of the wheelie bin next door.

He was waiting for the postie so he was looking for the postie. Is that her? Not so much the vehicle but the driver and when it wasn’t ‘her’ his eyes saw the child.

Another neighbour on Beneroon heard a vehicle and said it sounded just like the postie.

I get it. When random vehicles drive past my house I take no notice but I do notice the sound of the bike, maybe it’s the stopping, starting and revving off at the driveways but yes I do notice the postie bike.

 

[SouthAussie]

He was waiting for the postie so he was looking for the postie. Is that her? No so much the vehicle but the driver and when it wasn’t ‘her’ his eyes saw the child.

Another neighbour on Beneroon heard a vehicle and said it sounded just like the postie.

I get it. When random vehicles drive past my house I take no notice but I do notice the sound of the bike, maybe it’s the stopping, starting and revving off at the driveways but yes I do notice the postie bike.

Yes, I notice postie bike sounds, too. I think it is likely the residents of Kendall would notice postie vehicle sounds.

I will look for the walkthrough video later and see if I can transcribe relevant parts for others to read.

 

[they'll get you]

Yes, the vehicle in front of the post office has writing on the grill. If that is an exclusive thing, maybe it is a Suzuki?

View attachment 207739

Rolling past any post you don't like is good! Rolling and smiling: it's a good plan.

I might like the post but I see it as a useless addition to WS when we can simply respond to a post or just mention their name.

 

[they'll get you]

Yes, I notice postie bike sounds, too. I think it is likely the residents of Kendall would notice postie vehicle sounds.

I will look for the walkthrough video later and see if I can transcribe relevant parts for others to read.

The relevance of the postie’s whereabouts is important as people actually might look outside to see if they have something, especially the ones like Chapman who was watching out for his delivery.

When people are looking and listening then they might be likely to see something, anything to do with the abduction of William.

 

[JLZ]

He was waiting for the postie so he was looking for the postie. Is that her? Not so much the vehicle but the driver and when it wasn’t ‘her’ his eyes saw the child.

Another neighbour on Beneroon heard a vehicle and said it sounded just like the postie.

I get it. When random vehicles drive past my house I take no notice but I do notice the sound of the bike, maybe it’s the stopping, starting and revving off at the driveways but yes I do notice the postie bike.

I'm thinking the car was the postie, and William, being in a restless state and at odds with FGM and also having had his attention directed to the road by FFC, ran out or up to check the mail. PS was watching out for postie and consequently saw William. (What next, I don't know.) I wish we knew what time postie actually came by.

 

[SouthAussie]

Hiya SA.
Depending on the route the postie takes because it won’t be a direct route from Chapman’s to Beneroon as it could be a zigzag effect.
A ‘letter’ postie and a ‘small parcel’ postie has the same route day in and day out depending on the deliveries. The bike, the car or the van is prepacked to suit their route before the day begins and I had my addresses (drops) taped to the dash so I knew exactly where to go that day and the items were all in line to suit.
Let’s say there might be usually 20 deliveries along a section but there might be none that day so then that road is sidestepped then this makes for a early finish time.
The months leading up to Christmas a ‘small parcel’ postie can get hammered and return to the sorting area as not all parcels will fit in the van and the route will be done in 2 sections.

I do have one more question about this, tgy.

Is it usual for the post office to arrange a post person's delivery as starting from the post office and going outwards, or starting at the town's outskirts and moving inwards? Or neither?

 

[drsleuth]

I'm thinking the car was the postie, and William, being in a restless state and at odds with FGM and also having had his attention directed to the road by FFC, ran out or up to check the mail. PS was watching out for postie and consequently saw William. (What next, I don't know.) I wish we knew what time postie actually came by.

Most posties I imagine keep roughly the same time each day , so I guess we could assume that the postie gets to Benaroon around 10.00 to 10.20 ish as that's when the Crabbs thought they heard the postie?

 

[drsleuth]

That is all I was trying to say in my post of yesterday ... that some/many people do roll past these types of posts, so questions meant for all may not be seen or answered.
I don't think anything else needs to be said about it though - sillybilly has weighed in with the site's preference.

Thanks for your reply about the postal route. Now if we can just somehow work out which direction postie took each day we might be able to see if Mr Chapman might have read his clock in reverse.
Maybe drsleuth will have some idea when they have time to read the thread. I am not finding anything about it in MSM.

Mr Chapman was certain the time was 10:45 as he looked up at the clock on his way out the front.

 

[SouthAussie]

Mr Chapman was certain the time was 10:45 as he looked up at the clock on his way out the front.

Yes, I think that JLZ had wondered if he might have read the clock hands back to front. Minute hand as the hour hand. Hour hand as the minute hand.

 

[drsleuth]

Yes, I think that JLZ had wondered if he might have read the clock hands back to front. Minute hand as the hour hand. Hour hand as the minute hand.

Maybe but I really don't think so........

 

[they'll get you]

I'm thinking the car was the postie, and William, being in a restless state and at odds with FGM and also having had his attention directed to the road by FFC, ran out or up to check the mail. PS was watching out for postie and consequently saw William. (What next, I don't know.) I wish we knew what time postie actually came by.

Trust me when I say that posties do get blasé but they do remain careful and aware.

It appears there was some ‘small town’ bad blood around and it’s interesting that Chapman was either unaware of the severity of his sighting or decided to be a spoilt brat about it.
Savage had issues and I wonder who else was dragged into the fray as some close knit cul-de-sacs of retired people might do.
I’m sure the postie told the neighbours her side of the story.

 

[drsleuth]

OK so where are we up to with the current timeline??

 

[JLZ]

Mr Chapman was certain the time was 10:45 as he looked up at the clock on his way out the front.

I know he looked at the clock. But if it was a clock with hands, 10:45 looks similar to 9:50, especially if the two hands are not very much different in length. Now you wouldn't mistake say 9:00 with 11:45 although they look similar, because you know whether it's about midday as opposed to early/mid-morning. But I think it's possible to mistake 9:50 for 10:45: both mid-morning.

 

[drsleuth]

This is what I have written down for Mr Chapman re clock/time

Craddock : So you were waiting on a delivery of plant cuttings, expected to be delivered to your door.

Mr Chapman: No, postman would leave a card & I would than collect from post office.

Mr Craddock : Did you drive at that time?

Mr Chapman : Yes I had a car.

Mr Craddock : So waiting for the postie , did you hear a noise?

Mr Chapman : What I thought was postie at mailbox. I got up from sunroom where I was sitting out the back of the house.

Mr Craddock: You got up hearing a noise & head towards door as noise indicated postman had come. Noise gratting sound like mailbox closed. Mailbox made of tin?

Mr Chapman : Yes, as I walked thru the kitchen to the loungeroom I looked at the clock on the wall & noted the time of 10:45 am, I am quite sure of that.

 

[drsleuth]

I know he looked at the clock. But if it was a clock with hands, 10:45 looks similar to 9:50, especially if the two hands are not very much different in length. Now you wouldn't mistake say 9:00 with 11:45 although they look similar, because you know whether it's about midday as opposed to early/mid-morning. But I think it's possible to mistake 9:50 for 10:45: both mid-morning.

I guess he could have been mistaken thou??