UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #4

[Mrs Marple]

Wondering if the focus picked someone up who came out the front door of Claudia's house. This happened at 05.42, 20 minutes or so after morning alley man was picked up.

Interesting reviewing the arrests again that MS was arrested after finger prints were lifted from the house. I suspect the other fingerprints were from te four, who probably denied ever being there.

Sex game gone wrong? Scratching our heads for the motive, it could have been an accident.

 

[MajorLang]

There is much discussion about Claudia possibly being with a new boyfriend or man on the night of her disappearance .
It has also been discussed that Claudia would also have friends at her house .

But did Claudia also visit her female friends houses for a girly night in ?
One of Claudias best friends lived only a 3 minute drive from her .
Route attached .

 

[Popejohn3]

How could they possibly know that, unless they know his identity?

The reason he gave was ‘ because he would have been identified if he was local ‘

 

[Popejohn3]

The word that you use "Key" @Popejohn3
Probably the key to open the box that shuts them all in .
To explain this one more time :


Alibi
Fred Dark Person
"I was at Johns all night ,poker
(John is also one of arrested)
John
"Fred and I played poker all night at out house" .

Fred wife , who keeps looking at cctv footage.

"That's definitely our Fred , he was out all night playing poker with John and he got home at 7am . I'm going to have to go to the police .Poor girl ,what was he doing ?
my god ."

The CCTV footage is an appeal , clearly police require a key person still to break the alibi that Police know is false .

Ok then no one has admitted it was them .I’ll accept that.
It goes without saying that it’s not a crime to walk around there unless there was an injunction against them

 

[x_caz_x]

There is much discussion about Claudia possibly being with a new boyfriend or man on the night of her disappearance .
It has also been discussed that Claudia would also have friends at her house .

But did Claudia also visit her female friends houses for a girly night in ?
One of Claudias best friends lived only a 3 minute drive from her .
Route attached .

@MajorLang, if she was at her friends and there when she spoke to her Dad and Mum later in the evening.... This would account for JL's statement that the conversation with Claudia seemed normal (she was at her best friends after all). Perhaps at the time of the conversation, CL was in the room alone and therefore able to speak freely. Going on one of your theories that she had someone staying in her home with her and combining this with another of your theories, that Claudia was not the target - were those CCTV images showing that someone was checking to see if that person was there? That person could have been staying in the back bedroom? Perhaps Claudia was being prevented from returning, so they could get to the guest at her home?
If any of this is possible, our timelines could be completely out - she may have been (or may still) held for days, weeks or months....

 

[MajorLang]

@MajorLang, if she was at her friends and there when she spoke to her Dad and Mum later in the evening.... This would account for JL's statement that the conversation with Claudia seemed normal (she was at her best friends after all). Perhaps at the time of the conversation, CL was in the room alone and therefore able to speak freely. Going on one of your theories that she had someone staying in her home with her and combining this with another of your theories, that Claudia was not the target - were those CCTV images showing that someone was checking to see if that person was there? That person could have been staying in the back bedroom? Perhaps Claudia was being prevented from returning, so they could get to the guest at her home?
If any of this is possible, our timelines could be completely out - she may have been (or may still) held for days, weeks or months....

Yes
Claudia is missed because of her family and friends continually promoting the cause .
What if as you say, the target was the person staying at her house .

Divide and conquer

take her away for the evening
Deal with him
She then knows too much so they both end up in the boot of a car and off to the scrapyard .

So, was he a criminal
A fugitive
An undercover operative

Was the earlier botching of the investigation "deliberate" ?
Are the pleas of the 4 genuine or were they being investigated as part of an undercover op ?

 

[x_caz_x]

Ok then no one has admitted it was them .I’ll accept that.
It goes without saying that it’s not a crime to walk around there unless there was an injunction against them

If we could see CCTV images from other days, we would know if people coming and going from the alleyway was a usual occurrence. Otherwise it would be out of place.

 

[x_caz_x]

Yes
Claudia is missed because of her family and friends continually promoting the cause .
What if as you say, the target was the person staying at her house .

Divide and conquer

take her away for the evening
Deal with him
She then knows too much so they both end up in the boot of a car and off to the scrapyard .

So, was he a criminal
A fugitive
An undercover operative

Was the earlier botching of the investigation "deliberate" ?
Are the pleas of the 4 genuine or were they being investigated as part of an undercover op ?

This is all possible. All the comings and goings we see on those CCTV images could be concerning the guest and not Claudia. What happened to Claudia, was happening away from home. In effect, Claudia could have been missing since 3:15pm, even if she was unaware of it when she spoke to her Mum later that evening?

 

[Mrs Marple]

Yes
Claudia is missed because of her family and friends continually promoting the cause .
What if as you say, the target was the person staying at her house .

Divide and conquer

take her away for the evening
Deal with him
She then knows too much so they both end up in the boot of a car and off to the scrapyard .

So, was he a criminal
A fugitive
An undercover operative

Was the earlier botching of the investigation "deliberate" ?
Are the pleas of the 4 genuine or were they being investigated as part of an undercover op ?

I don't generally buy in to conspiracy theories but l am coming around to the idea that whatever happened wasn't intentional.

 

[Mrs Marple]

This is all possible. All the comings and goings we see on those CCTV images could be concerning the guest and not Claudia. What happened to Claudia, was happening away from home. In effect, Claudia could have been missing since 3:15pm, even if she was unaware of it when she spoke to her Mum later that evening?

Her mum said she was in bed at the time of the call. I wonder if she had a tv in her room then as they were both watching location location. She might have gone to bed early if she was out all night on Tuesday. Or she might have been in bed, but not at her own house. Or she might have been in bed with someone.

 

[MajorLang]

The reason he gave was ‘ because he would have been identified if he was local ‘

I live in a location with a population of 750 people-I wouldn't be able to identify all locals

 

[MajorLang]

I don't generally buy in to conspiracy theories but l am coming around to the idea that whatever happened wasn't intentional.

Law enforcement doesn't have to involve conspiracy theories at all. Many ofNational Crime Agency operations are undercover as are Security Services. In 2009 and today Drugs, people Trafficking was / is rife and they way that Claudia has dissapeared without trace could well suggest this. it could have been an accident and I started here with that theory @Mrs Marple. I am moving away from this because of the earlier sightings which suggest an element of pre-meditation.

 

[MajorLang]

Her mum said she was in bed at the time of the call. I wonder if she had a tv in her room then as they were both watching location location. She might have gone to bed early if she was out all night on Tuesday. Or she might have been in bed, but not at her own house. Or she might have been in bed with someone.

My Son tells his Mum that he doesn't stay out all night, he is 30. He tells me differently

 

[Deleted member 102539]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/119429/Missing-chef-s-dad-Don-t-stop-looking-for-my-daughter
Missing chef's dad: Don't stop looking for my daughter
DETECTIVES leading the search for missing chef Claudia Lawrence believe a prime suspect in the case died three weeks after she vanished.
PUBLISHED: 01:04, Sun, Aug 9, 2009
(I'm noticing: the article is still available without deleted parts re the suspect)
What, if the men from the Nags, the builders, wanted to eliminate their busy, wealthy, successful competitor and CL got between the fronts or was used in some way?
It would have been easy for the men to point at RC, when he had died 3 weeks after CL's disappearing. But if they were the instigators of a mysterious "action" with fatal outcome, they had to fear certain statements and preferred to stay silent. All MOO and today's thought. Maybe? Perhaps? Possible?

 

[MajorLang]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/119429/Missing-chef-s-dad-Don-t-stop-looking-for-my-daughter
Missing chef's dad: Don't stop looking for my daughter
DETECTIVES leading the search for missing chef Claudia Lawrence believe a prime suspect in the case died three weeks after she vanished.
PUBLISHED: 01:04, Sun, Aug 9, 2009
(I'm noticing: the article is still available without deleted parts re the suspect)
What, if the men from the Nags, the builders, wanted to eliminate their busy, wealthy, successful competitor and CL got between the fronts or was used in some way?

Did one of POIs not go on to buy number 15 Heworth Place and the the house next door to the Nags Head that has access rights to garage at rear and pub car park?
That would give that person number 11, 13 and 15. Number 62 Heworth Road. Picture Attached with Sold Sign and Old Tommys house who died recently) , The Nags head Car Park and the rear garage? they could have their own Pub, Garage House and 3 Sub Lets for students, where would it stop?


It would have been easy for the men to point at RC, when he had died 3 weeks after CL's disappearing. But if they were the instigators of a mysterious "action" with fatal outcome, they had to fear certain statements and preferred to stay silent. All MOO and today's thought. Maybe? Perhaps? Possible?

Some of the reporting is inaccurate-What more can we expect though from the Daily Snail?

"Police continue to search the properties of wealthy landlord Richard Cartwright, 57, and think that CCTV images place him at the back of Claudia’s house at around 5.50am on the day she disappeared."

It was at 05:07 and seven seconds and not 05:50...

As we know the evening footage showed the same man. Police dont mention the evening footage here and so is morning and evening Richard Cartwright. If it is and he is Dead, why are they still appealing for people to identify a dead man?

Again the Snail say:
"Following a BBC Crimewatch appeal, officers are “almost certain” the footage identifies Cartwright who was found dead at his home from natural causes in East Parade, York on April 19."

He was actualy found dead on Thursday 9th April

Body of Richard Cartwright Found dead at his home in East Parade.

He was landlord to some properties in Heworth Place that were student Lets at No#11 and #13.

Found on 9th but could he have died at same / similar time?

Did he die of natural causes or did he know something and was this a message sent to silence the masses?

 

[Eve71]

My Son tells his Mum that he doesn't stay out all night, he is 30. He tells me differently

Haha. Dads and their boys!

 

[Eve71]

Her mum said she was in bed at the time of the call. I wonder if she had a tv in her room then as they were both watching location location. She might have gone to bed early if she was out all night on Tuesday. Or she might have been in bed, but not at her own house. Or she might have been in bed with someone.

I tend to believe Claudia was out all night previously. Can’t fathom why this info was shared so much later but equally I can’t understand why her colleague would lie.
She was more likely alone whilst speaking to her mum. I know her mum called her but usually if one is preoccupied, you tend to cut the conversation short but from her mums statement they had quite a lengthy, leisurely discussion about the programme.

 

[x_caz_x]

I tend to believe Claudia was out all night previously. Can’t fathom why this info was shared so much later but equally I can’t understand why her colleague would lie.
She was more likely alone whilst speaking to her mum. I know her mum called her but usually if one is preoccupied, you tend to cut the conversation short but from her mums statement they had quite a lengthy, leisurely discussion about the programme.

But if Claudia was out all night 17h/18th March, would she be likely to go out again on 18th/19th or get an early night? Keeping in mind she had work.
I find it very suspicious that a colleague would only remember this detail a year after she went missing

 

[MajorLang]

But if Claudia was out all night 17h/18th March, would she be likely to go out again on 18th/19th or get an early night? Keeping in mind she had work.
I find it very suspicious that a colleague would only remember this detail a year after she went missing

Yes-definitely a red herring told by the employee at the Uni who probably took meals in Claudias restaurant. Using this story and diverting attention away from themselves.

 

[Eve71]

But if Claudia was out all night 17h/18th March, would she be likely to go out again on 18th/19th or get an early night? Keeping in mind she had work.
I find it very suspicious that a colleague would only remember this detail a year after she went missing

From experience....she’d get an early night. Was possibly still feeling a little hungover too.