TX - Atatiana Jefferson, 28, fatally shot at home, Fort Worth, Oct 2019 *officer charged*

[Safeguard]

This has probably been discussed, but why didn't the officer just ring the doorbell or knock on the front door?

There are incompetent people in all walks of life. We MUST consider that when we are deciding whether or not to call the authorities on our neighbors!

 

[nrdsb4]

I appreciate this analysis. I wonder if there is case law about a fenced yard? Does that go beyond trespassing into breaking and entering?

When police arrived to Shannann Watt’s house for a welfare check, he looked through the front door then walked around the house through a gated and fenced back yard to look through windows. I don’t recall any public outcry calling for charges of trespass or breaking and entering. It’s the shooting that is the problem here, not walking around the house imo. And of course he should have knocked on the front door as a first tactic.

 

[Safeguard]

When police arrived to Shannann Watt’s house for a welfare check, he looked through the front door then walked around the house through a gated and fenced back yard to look through windows. I don’t recall any public outcry calling for charges of breaking and entering.

Way different situation. SW didn't show for a obgyn app. Her "ride" became alarmed. Responding officer had info of a heavily pregnant women in ill health. HUGE difference. plus the cop didnt kill anyone. So there's that. He actually does announce himself, several times...

 

[Charlot123]

But it's wrong, (I have to say, imo here, on this site.), But it IS wrong, to call out
color, race. It only serves a certain polical agenda, and devalues others families who have suffered the same fate, who do not happen to be black.

@Safeguard, first, what do you know about me to even be aware of whom I consider nr 1 at risk group? Second, no one calls out color or race. If you see it in my post, please point out.

In regards to this case, in another thread, I linked the opposite situation - a white woman killed by a Somalian/American policeman. I also linked the article about police creating the catastrophic situations and then resorting to violence, where both black and white victims of police brutality were mentioned. And if that is not enough, I linked Sweden, white-on-white crime.

If you are unhappy that there is some political agenda, why start with my post where there is none? In fact, I said, “the prevailing feeling is that we all deserve the same, legality and law”? Where do you see political agenda? And I know many African Americans who share the same attitude. (Unite, not divide.).

I totally disagree with my post being used to push your agenda.

 

[Hraefn]

Completely different situation, time of day, and 911 call. And didn’t the officer attempt to knock and contact Shan’ann before searching the property?

When police arrived to Shannann Watt’s house for a welfare check, he looked through the front door then walked around the house through a gated and fenced back yard to look through windows. I don’t recall any public outcry calling for charges of trespass or breaking and entering. It’s the shooting that is the problem here, not walking around the house imo. And of course he should have knocked on the front door as a first tactic.

 

[Safeguard]

I am seriously thrilled this guy is not my neighbor! <modsnip: profanity>

Why?
Because he claims to be upset?
He doesn't look upset. He may not have expected the outcome of his inappropriate actions, but I bet he'll still give interviews.
I suspect those who sympathize with this guy, are exactly those busy body types no one wants for a neighbor.

 

[Betty P]

When police arrived to Shannann Watt’s house for a welfare check, he looked through the front door then walked around the house through a gated and fenced back yard to look through windows. I don’t recall any public outcry calling for charges of trespass or breaking and entering. It’s the shooting that is the problem here, not walking around the house imo. And of course he should have knocked on the front door as a first tactic.

Did the officer ring the doorbell in that case? I'm trying to remember, honestly asking. I can see why they need to go around the house outside if they think there's a problem, but I would give the doorbell a try first and certainly wouldn't shoot anyone inside. I'm guessing there are accepted procedures for this kind of thing, right?

 

[grammieto5]

I wonder if the Nephew has his family and lawyer with him in these Forensic interviews????

 

[Safeguard]

Did the officer ring the doorbell in that case? I'm trying to remember, honestly asking. I can see why they need to go around the house outside if they think there's a problem, but I would give the doorbell a try first and certainly wouldn't shoot anyone inside. I'm guessing there are accepted procedures for this kind of thing, right?

Nope. No ring, light knock, calling out. nothing but incompetence.

 

[nrdsb4]

Way different situation. SW didn't show for a obgyn app. Her "ride" became alarmed. Responding officer had info of a heavily pregnant women in ill health. HUGE difference. plus the cop didnt kill anyone. So there's that. He actually does announce himself, several times...

I understand the situations are different. I also mentioned that contrary to the Watts welfare check, here there is a shooting. I just watched the Watts video-he does not announce himself to the residents when he first arrives. He greets Shannann's friends, hears their concerns, looks through the front window, then turns to walk around the house to check the windows. After he walks into the side yard through the gate, he knocks on windows. He tells the friends he doesn't want to enter the house until the husband gives him permission.

He was very professional and did it the right way-the way these two officers should have done it. However, if they were not told to conduct a welfare check but were instead informed that it was an open structure call or potential burglary, that's going to potentially provide some degree of mitigation, and his attorney will surely try to use that to his client's advantage.

The responding officers received information from dispatch about an “open structure” call, which Kraus said requires a more heightened response than a welfare check.

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Fort Worth officer freed from jail after being charged with murder for killing Atatiana Jefferson

There have been a lot of people saying that police do not have the right to enter a back yard without permission. That's simply not true on a welfare check. Where this policeman and his partner made their first mistake was in not knocking on the front door, calling out, identifying themselves as police officers, etc. I don't think there has been any disagreement here about that.

No court order is required for the police to conduct a welfare check. Essentially, as long as they have reasonable grounds to believe that an inhabitant in a residence in endangered, they can legally enter the premises. They typically knock on the door and await a response before announcing their law enforcement affiliation. If they still receive no response, they may enter the property. This is particularly useful when someone inside the house is unconscious or otherwise unable to respond. The ability to enter the property without permission means that emergency aid can be rendered. In some cases, this is a life-saving intervention.

What Is A Police Welfare Check?

If only these officers had announced themselves at the door, this would have had an entirely different outcome imo. That fact will torture this poor young woman's family for the rest of their lives. I know that's how it would affect me if this were one of my daughters.

 

[nrdsb4]

Completely different situation, time of day, and 911 call. And didn’t the officer attempt to knock and contact Shan’ann before searching the property?

He does not knock on anything before he opens the gate and enters the side/back yard property. He doesn't attempt to contact Shannann. He takes the word of their friends that she isn't answering her phone. The part I'm responding to was simply the question asking if entering the back yard is breaking and entering. It isn't. Entering the back yard is not the problem here, no matter what time of day. It's the SHOOTING that's the problem and failure to identify themselves in any manner. IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I appreciate this analysis. I wonder if there is case law about a fenced yard? Does that go beyond trespassing into breaking and entering?

Technically the cops were committing Criminal Trespass by going into the backyard of a private residence without permission.
They will say they had every right of course, but I think they lost that right when they neglected to knock on the door and announce who they were.

If you loudly knock on the door and yell "POLICE OFFICERS" then get no response, then by all means check out the back of the house.

In Texas Breaking and Entering is called Criminal Trespass.
The next "stage" above that is Burglary.

Criminal Trespass would be going onto/into someone's property without permission and this includes people's yards.
It also includes getting into property by using deceptive methods, like saying your the cable guy/gal or pretending to be a cop or pretending to sell something etc....

You do not have to break anything to be charged with criminal trespass. If a stranger is sitting in my backyard that's criminal trespass. If my door's unlocked and someone walks in and sits on my couch that's criminal trespass.

Even if the person leaves immediately you can still fill out a police report but use your best judgement on it. Only a very vindictive person would file charges just because a person walks across their yard a couple times, and LE wouldn't be thrilled with that.....2 Cents......

In Texas, breaking and entering is known as criminal trespass:
What Exactly Constitutes Breaking and Entering?

Texas Burglary and Criminal Trespass Laws - FindLaw

 

[nrdsb4]

Did the officer ring the doorbell in that case? I'm trying to remember, honestly asking. I can see why they need to go around the house outside if they think there's a problem, but I would give the doorbell a try first and certainly wouldn't shoot anyone inside. I'm guessing there are accepted procedures for this kind of thing, right?

If you are referring to the Ft. Worth case, no, they didn't ring the doorbell or knock, or do anything before going into the back yard. And of course he shouldn't have shot her!

In the Watts case, he doesn't knock or ring the bell (he looks through the glass on the side of the front door) before he heads into the back yard. He doesn't have the permission of the homeowner to enter the back yard, nor has he identified himself before going through the gate into the yard. He begins knocking on windows after he enters the side yard.

But that's okay-his actions are perfectly logical and legal.

 

[nrdsb4]

Kraus said that though Jefferson’s neighbor James Smith called a non-emergency number to ask for a welfare check at her home, the officers were not aware of that fact.


The responding officers received information from dispatch about an “open structure” call, which Kraus said requires a more heightened response than a welfare check.

If this proves to be true, the defense will jump on this heavily. I highly doubt it would be enough to completely exonerate him (never gave her the opportunity to hear and react to his commands, etc.), but it could possibly result in some kind of mitigation in terms of severity of charges or sentence. JMO.

 

[Safeguard]

If you are referring to the Ft. Worth case, no, they didn't ring the doorbell or knock, or do anything before going into the back yard. And of course he shouldn't have shot her!

In the Watts case, he doesn't knock or ring the bell (he looks through the glass on the side of the front door) before he heads into the back yard. He doesn't have the permission of the homeowner to enter the back yard, nor has he identified himself before going through the gate into the yard. He begins knocking on windows after he enters the side yard.

But that's okay-his actions are perfectly logical and legal.

I have seen video where he calls out quite plainly, "POLICE Open Up". Its late but I'll link it tomorrow (upon request if you want).

 

[DianaElaine]

First I want to say, this is horrible .... and it breaks my heart.

Also I wanted to say that I have called police for a property check, when I thought someone was on my property at night.

The officers didn’t immediately knock on my door or announce themselves. They started looking around the property first. They’re very quiet .... usually with flashlights.

When they’re sure there’s no threat, THEN they come to the door.

BUT, that’s when “I” call THEM, and I’m expecting them.

This of course was different. One officer should have called the resident first, to let her know they were coming, and that they would be outside looking around.

OR the dispatch should have called her.

But I wanted to mention this, because so many are saying that officers should knock first or announce themselves. If they did that, the person they’re looking for, would hear them and could get away, shoot the officers, or harm the person inside.

Again, this WAS different, in that she had no idea they were coming.

It’s very sad.

 

[Safeguard]

Calling the police does not require evidence of a crime. In this case, the neighbor called because the owner of the home is an elderly woman who had been ill and in/out of the hospital. He did the right thing rather than put himself in danger. Law enforcement asks all of us to call through their tag line, "if you see something, say something."

<modsnip>

My neighbors are my friends. I wouldn't dream of calling the cops on them unless I have checked things out myself and am reasonably sure there's a need.

We dont tolorate nosy bs around here.

He most certainly did NOT "do the right thing" as is evidenced by a corps.

 

[grammieto5]

Atatiana Jefferson was so much more than a “black woman”. She was a beautiful young lady. She was an Aunt, a sister, a daughter. She was highly educated with plans to become a doctor. She was a straight A student. Atatiana was talented enough to play a musical instrument. Atatiana Jefferson was a human being. God bless her family and watch over her nephew and keep him safe.

 

[nrdsb4]

I have seen video where he calls out quite plainly, "POLICE Open Up". Its late but I'll link it tomorrow (upon request if you want).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4qSzYK2kFw&t=284. He doesn't knock on the front door until 8:58, after he has entered the exterior property and gone completely around the house knocking on windows/sliding doors. It's not until 16:25 that he finally calls out her name and identifies himself as a police officer and asks her to "make herself known."

Only after going completely around the house and into the back yard of the property and knocking on windows/sliding doors does the officer call Shannann's number (14:14).

Clearly permission is not needed to enter a gated/fenced yard on a welfare check. I don't know why this has become such a point of contention.

 

[Safeguard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4qSzYK2kFw&t=284. He doesn't knock on the front door until 8:58, after he has entered the exterior property and gone completely around the house knocking on windows/sliding doors. It's not until 16:25 that he finally calls out her name and identifies himself as a police officer and asks her to "make herself known."

Only after going completely around the house and into the back yard of the property and knocking on windows/sliding doors does the officer call Shannann's number (14:14).

Clearly permission is not needed to enter a gated/fenced yard on a welfare check. I don't know why this has become such a point of contention.

I dont think it's a "point of contention" so much as the Watts case is a whole different can of worms. There was a whole lot more to be concerned about going in, than this case of a getting a breeze without consulting your neighbors.

It's utterly absurd to me that you can't enjoy a nice breeze through your screen door without fear that someone will call the police.

Maybe we should all report ourselves:

"Hi, I'm Melvin at 75 Cool Breeze Ave, I plan to be playing COD until the early morning hours and I may have only my screen door closed."