Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #48

[mussopossum]

I'm confused - I'm apologetic - that as a society we have people who believe it's their right to take advantage of others.

Just sad for the families and victims.

 

[mussopossum]

I think you need to record that part at the beginning of the interview. It would start by saying, for example ' this is Nov 2nd, 2017 and I am recording this conversation with Mr Savage, is that correct Mr Savage? ---and the interviewee would then answer, 'Correct.' On the audio. As proof he was notified it was being recorded.

And maybe that is how his legal missteps were discovered---someone taking over the case files may have listened to the interviews, and could tell there was no recorded portion notifying PS of the recording device?

Or he did request ask permission before he hit record, doubtful though 4 times he would do that.

I thought I initially read that Savage knew he was being and gave permission to be recorded. when he was contacted by Jubelin.

And IF this was the case is it just the case of regardless Savage agreeing to be recorded that he needed a warrant regardless to be recording that conversation.

I am not familiar enough with the law.

When a person is invited to visit a police station to discuss or be interviewed they are generally told that the conversation is being recorded, are they also told anything they say may be used as evidence? Or is this only when an arrest is made and an official interview being conducted?

Im just wondering if its the same speel on the phone are they supposed to give the official full speel?

And if they dont and simply say Mr Savage this call is being recorded do you agree without saying it may be used as evidence is this deemed illegal?

Or regardless of all the above is it that a warrant is needed regardless.

I presumed a warrant was more needed if a conversation was recorded without the consent or knowledge of the other party, the police need to prove sufficient evidence or suspicion to use covert operations for that individual to be able to record them or plant listening devices etc and obtain a warrant from a judge

So if Savage said yes to the recordings is it just the warrant was needed regardless of giving consent?

 

[mussopossum]

If Savage had just witnessed something, and was reluctant to tell the police, I wonder why he wouldn't leave a detailed Crime Stoppers tip himself .... early in the piece. Providing the details that might have given the police clear direction, when combined with their expertise.

Instead of wandering around in the bush by himself looking for William.

The thing is we do not know much about Savage, his personality, his history.

We only recently learned about the lady who delivered his mail which I think was a big shock to most of us as until then we couldn't find an ounce of information on him.

So it is hard to get any idea why or why he did not report anything if he had seen it.

I dont feel that he had anything to do with William being taken but I do feel that he does know something.

Whether he has a connection to one the POI and it has been known that after William was taken that friendship ceased, changed and this has been noted by a community member to police?

Maybe his wife saw something and chose not to report it and told Savage and they were fearful of the person involved.

Maybe Savage Is just one of those individuals who just doesn't want to be involved in such things regardless of a little boy missing. It is a heavy burden to carry, most of us would report something in a heartbeat, others would rather take it to their grave and let family suffer not knowing, I am not insinuating Savage is withholding information, Im just saying Jubelin for some reason to do what he did obviously believed there was something to it.

I wonder if he confided in Caravan lady after William went missing? Maybe he mentioned something to her but it contradicted what he told police originally?

I wish we knew more to get a better understanding of Savage himself.

 

[katydid23]

Or he did request ask permission before he hit record, doubtful though 4 times he would do that.

I thought I initially read that Savage knew he was being and gave permission to be recorded. when he was contacted by Jubelin.

And IF this was the case is it just the case of regardless Savage agreeing to be recorded that he needed a warrant regardless to be recording that conversation.

I am not familiar enough with the law.

When a person is invited to visit a police station to discuss or be interviewed they are generally told that the conversation is being recorded, are they also told anything they say may be used as evidence? Or is this only when an arrest is made and an official interview being conducted?

Im just wondering if its the same speel on the phone are they supposed to give the official full speel?

And if they dont and simply say Mr Savage this call is being recorded do you agree without saying it may be used as evidence is this deemed illegal?

Or regardless of all the above is it that a warrant is needed regardless.

I presumed a warrant was more needed if a conversation was recorded without the consent or knowledge of the other party, the police need to prove sufficient evidence or suspicion to use covert operations for that individual to be able to record them or plant listening devices etc and obtain a warrant from a judge

So if Savage said yes to the recordings is it just the warrant was needed regardless of giving consent?

IMO, He doesn't need a warrant to have a conversation with someone and record it with their permission. That is done routinely, with witnesses and family of victims or suspects. etc

But for him to record someone without their knowledge requires a warrant, in which he'd explain why he needed to do it that way.

So NOW he needs to explain in court, why he did so, without getting the required warrant. Hopefully he will be able to do so.

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe Savage Is just one of those individuals who just doesn't want to be involved in such things regardless of a little boy missing. It is a heavy burden to carry, most of us would report something in a heartbeat, others would rather take it to their grave and let family suffer not knowing, I am not insinuating Savage is withholding information, Im just saying Jubelin for some reason to do what he did obviously believed there was something to it.

Just highlighting this point ... if he didn't want to be involved, I can't imagine why he would blow off an important care arrangement with his brother and spend days wandering around the bush. Or why he would then speak with any media person that came near, and pose for photos ... until recently.

He may or may not be involved, but the questions about who saw him, what he was wearing, seem to extend beyond a person who just saw something, to me.

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO, He doesn't need a warrant to have a conversation with someone and record it with their permission. That is done routinely, with witnesses and family of victims or suspects. etc

But for him to record someone without their knowledge requires a warrant, in which he'd explain why he needed to do it that way.

So NOW he needs to explain in court, why he did so, without getting the required warrant. Hopefully he will be able to do so.

Margaret Cunneen is a powerhouse of a barrister. Very high calibre, from all I can see. If anyone can get Jubes point across - his legal right for the recordings - it will be her. imo

 

[mussopossum]

Just highlighting this point ... if he didn't want to be involved, I can't imagine why he would blow off an important care arrangement with his brother and spend days wandering around the bush. Or why he would then speak with any media person that came near, and pose for photos ... until recently.

He may or may not be involved, but the questions about who saw him, what he was wearing, seem to extend beyond a person who just saw something, to me.

Good point SA.

 

[mussopossum]

What was the reason that the search shifted here at the time William went missing?

"They conducted "a more evidence-based search" of the Middle Brother National Park, 10km from the abduction site, looking for items like clothes possibly discarded from a vehicle"

Taken from article in the Northern Star late 2018
Im not posting the link as it identify s and names Williams birth parents in the article.

 

[mussopossum]

Just highlighting this point ... if he didn't want to be involved, I can't imagine why he would blow off an important care arrangement with his brother and spend days wandering around the bush. Or why he would then speak with any media person that came near, and pose for photos ... until recently.

He may or may not be involved, but the questions about who saw him, what he was wearing, seem to extend beyond a person who just saw something, to me.

I found his comment interesting in this article from our local news in Dec 2018 (not posting link as it identify s Williams Bios)

Why did he think that they took him down the road? not the bush track
And the defensive that he didn't know how it happened of course.
And within that final time frame of Jubelins phone calls to Savage that are currently being investigated.

Just find the below comments interesting.


Neighbour Paul Savage agreed, though he said Benaroon Drive has changed since William's disappearance put the street on the national map.

The foster grandmother sold her house in 2016, but other residents of the once anonymous address have also sold up and moved, Mr Savage told news.com.au.

"We've lost different families," he said, "(but) it still is a safe area.

"We spent a good week or two searching; it was a real community effort.

"The police were excellent in everything they did and they kept it up and kept popping back.

"(But) somebody somehow managed to get him and disappeared down the road.

"I don't know how it happened of course. He's been taken to a place unknown.

"It's something you think about, but you've got to let it go, otherwise you'd go mad."

 

[bearbear]

I found his comment interesting in this article from our local news in Dec 2018 (not posting link as it identify s Williams Bios)

Why did he think that they took him down the road? not the bush track
And the defensive that he didn't know how it happened of course.
And within that final time frame of Jubelins phone calls to Savage that are currently being investigated.

Just find the below comments interesting.


Neighbour Paul Savage agreed, though he said Benaroon Drive has changed since William's disappearance put the street on the national map.

The foster grandmother sold her house in 2016, but other residents of the once anonymous address have also sold up and moved, Mr Savage told news.com.au.

"We've lost different families," he said, "(but) it still is a safe area.

"We spent a good week or two searching; it was a real community effort.

"The police were excellent in everything they did and they kept it up and kept popping back.

"(But) somebody somehow managed to get him and disappeared down the road.

"I don't know how it happened of course. He's been taken to a place unknown.

"It's something you think about, but you've got to let it go, otherwise you'd go mad."

yes! thankyou mussopossum, this is the article i was looking for,
i couldnt remember which neighbour had indicated which way william may been taken, so it was ps!

 

[mussopossum]

yes! thankyou mussopossum, this is the article i was looking for,
i couldnt remember which neighbour had indicated which way william may been taken, so it was ps!

Was quite a good article

The Northern Star December 16 2018 from memory.

 

[Lemony]

Just highlighting this point ... if he didn't want to be involved, I can't imagine why he would blow off an important care arrangement with his brother and spend days wandering around the bush. Or why he would then speak with any media person that came near, and pose for photos ... until recently.

He may or may not be involved, but the questions about who saw him, what he was wearing, seem to extend beyond a person who just saw something, to me.

A few other interesting questions from the inquest that I remember...
His BIL Gregory Newton was asked 'how did PS seem'.
Craddock asked PS if there was anything covering the luggage compartment in his car that would prevent anything inside being seen.

The types of questions asked (such as the above two) lead me to believe he is being looked at as a potential suspect rather than a witness to something JMO.

 

[drsleuth]

O/T

There are some major fires burning up Port Macquarie way atm

Major Fire Update Details - NSW Rural Fire Service

Posted: 2019-10-29 14:45

Numerous spot fires are starting ahead of the main fire front.

If you are in the area of Lake Cathie, Long Point or Bonny Hills, watch for burning embers. These embers may start spot fires ahead of the main fire front. If the fire threatens your location, seek shelter immediately to protect yourself from the heat of the fire.

If you are in the area of Kew, Kendall, Herons Creek and Bob's Creek, monitor conditions. Be aware of smoke and embers which may be blown from the fire.

Houston Mitchell Drive is closed between the Pacific Highway and Lake Cathie.

If you are not in the area, it may not be safe to return as roads can be closed at short notice.

Emergency Alert telephone warning messages are being sent to phones in the area.

Maybe mother nature might uncover someones little secret..........

 

[they'll get you]

I found his comment interesting in this article from our local news in Dec 2018 (not posting link as it identify s Williams Bios)

Why did he think that they took him down the road? not the bush track
And the defensive that he didn't know how it happened of course.
And within that final time frame of Jubelins phone calls to Savage that are currently being investigated.

Just find the below comments interesting.


Neighbour Paul Savage agreed, though he said Benaroon Drive has changed since William's disappearance put the street on the national map.

The foster grandmother sold her house in 2016, but other residents of the once anonymous address have also sold up and moved, Mr Savage told news.com.au.

"We've lost different families," he said, "(but) it still is a safe area.

"We spent a good week or two searching; it was a real community effort.

"The police were excellent in everything they did and they kept it up and kept popping back.

"(But) somebody somehow managed to get him and disappeared down the road.

"I don't know how it happened of course. He's been taken to a place unknown.

"It's something you think about, but you've got to let it go, otherwise you'd go mad."

If I were Savage I would’ve moved as well. Everyone knows where he lives and who he is and what he’s being accused of. (Allegedly). The vehicles driving slowly past both properties would drive anyone insane.

 

[Wexford]

O/T

There are some major fires burning up Port Macquarie way atm

Major Fire Update Details - NSW Rural Fire Service

Posted: 2019-10-29 14:45

Numerous spot fires are starting ahead of the main fire front.

If you are in the area of Lake Cathie, Long Point or Bonny Hills, watch for burning embers. These embers may start spot fires ahead of the main fire front. If the fire threatens your location, seek shelter immediately to protect yourself from the heat of the fire.

If you are in the area of Kew, Kendall, Herons Creek and Bob's Creek, monitor conditions. Be aware of smoke and embers which may be blown from the fire.

Houston Mitchell Drive is closed between the Pacific Highway and Lake Cathie.

If you are not in the area, it may not be safe to return as roads can be closed at short notice.

Emergency Alert telephone warning messages are being sent to phones in the area.

Maybe mother nature might uncover someones little secret..........

My exact same thoughts when I heard too.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I found his comment interesting in this article from our local news in Dec 2018 (not posting link as it identify s Williams Bios)

The foster grandmother sold her house in 2016, but other residents of the once anonymous address have also sold up and moved, Mr Savage told news.com.au.

Huh?

 

[bearbear]

O/T

There are some major fires burning up Port Macquarie way atm

Major Fire Update Details - NSW Rural Fire Service

Posted: 2019-10-29 14:45

Numerous spot fires are starting ahead of the main fire front.

If you are in the area of Lake Cathie, Long Point or Bonny Hills, watch for burning embers. These embers may start spot fires ahead of the main fire front. If the fire threatens your location, seek shelter immediately to protect yourself from the heat of the fire.

If you are in the area of Kew, Kendall, Herons Creek and Bob's Creek, monitor conditions. Be aware of smoke and embers which may be blown from the fire.

Houston Mitchell Drive is closed between the Pacific Highway and Lake Cathie.

If you are not in the area, it may not be safe to return as roads can be closed at short notice.

Emergency Alert telephone warning messages are being sent to phones in the area.

Maybe mother nature might uncover someones little secret..........

i was just thinking this, otherwise it might destroy any evidence, hopefully not

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The thing is we do not know much about Savage, his personality, his history.

We only recently learned about the lady who delivered his mail which I think was a big shock to most of us as until then we couldn't find an ounce of information on him.

So it is hard to get any idea why or why he did not report anything if he had seen it.

I dont feel that he had anything to do with William being taken but I do feel that he does know something.

Whether he has a connection to one the POI and it has been known that after William was taken that friendship ceased, changed and this has been noted by a community member to police?

Maybe his wife saw something and chose not to report it and told Savage and they were fearful of the person involved.

Maybe Savage Is just one of those individuals who just doesn't want to be involved in such things regardless of a little boy missing. It is a heavy burden to carry, most of us would report something in a heartbeat, others would rather take it to their grave and let family suffer not knowing, I am not insinuating Savage is withholding information, Im just saying Jubelin for some reason to do what he did obviously believed there was something to it.

I wonder if he confided in Caravan lady after William went missing? Maybe he mentioned something to her but it contradicted what he told police originally?

I wish we knew more to get a better understanding of Savage himself.

I wish, we would know a little bit more about his B-I-L, who was visiting exactly that day, when little W disappeared .... He could have been in the area before arriving at PS' home, theoretically. Did he always watch the sports events of his son and did he always take a trip to these locations? Did he get asked for that at the inquest? - I would like to know.

 

[interested64]

The thing is we do not know much about Savage, his personality, his history.

We only recently learned about the lady who delivered his mail which I think was a big shock to most of us as until then we couldn't find an ounce of information on him.

So it is hard to get any idea why or why he did not report anything if he had seen it.

I dont feel that he had anything to do with William being taken but I do feel that he does know something.

Whether he has a connection to one the POI and it has been known that after William was taken that friendship ceased, changed and this has been noted by a community member to police?

Maybe his wife saw something and chose not to report it and told Savage and they were fearful of the person involved.

Maybe Savage Is just one of those individuals who just doesn't want to be involved in such things regardless of a little boy missing. It is a heavy burden to carry, most of us would report something in a heartbeat, others would rather take it to their grave and let family suffer not knowing, I am not insinuating Savage is withholding information, Im just saying Jubelin for some reason to do what he did obviously believed there was something to it.

I wonder if he confided in Caravan lady after William went missing? Maybe he mentioned something to her but it contradicted what he told police originally?

I wish we knew more to get a better understanding of Savage himself.

imo he went out to have a chat with fgm and put him self into the search process for days,i doubt hes scared of much and i think he likes to take risks,as in harassing the postie and being in trouble didnt stop him..but you could very well be right about caravan lady..maybe she did have a different story

 

[interested64]

Just highlighting this point ... if he didn't want to be involved, I can't imagine why he would blow off an important care arrangement with his brother and spend days wandering around the bush. Or why he would then speak with any media person that came near, and pose for photos ... until recently.

He may or may not be involved, but the questions about who saw him, what he was wearing, seem to extend beyond a person who just saw something, to me.

very much agree..i still believe being at the letter box puts him very close to the area gj thought William had gone missing from..just a few meters