UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #4

[MajorLang]

@Popejohn3 If she was picked up in a blue / Silver / Metallic Ford Escort, how does this metamorphose into what looks like a Red Volvo Saloon by the time it gets to the Uni boundary. Is this some kind of relay race going on here and just because some oink rings police and alleges that they saw something we have to believe it?

There are many times @Popejohn3 that I feel that your modus operandi for being on here is to divert conversations to a point of ridicule. It's time you started to do your own research, perhaps by googling information rather than relying on the spoon feeding of other members.

 

[Popejohn3]

@Popejohn3 If she was picked up in a blue / Silver / Metallic Ford Escort, how does this metamorphose into what looks like a Red Volvo Saloon by the time it gets to the Uni boundary. Is this some kind of relay race going on here and just because some oink rings police and alleges that they saw something we have to believe it?

The witness says he saw two people arguing opposite to a red car with passenger door open.
It could have been a lhd .Cl might not have been in that car at all .He ... the driver ... could have simply crossed the road to speak to Claudia

 

[Popejohn3]

I am not trying to distract anyone.I have nothing more to add /say in this thread at least for the foreseeable future.
I’ll simply keep on reading .Good luck everyone and I mean that sincerely,

 

[Yozzer]

Sometimes it is useful to go back to earlier periods in the case. I watched a youtube video uploaded by Stephanie Cole

featuring Peter L's appearance in the Missing tv programme made in 2010. Other contributions are made by friends and family, members of the public and Heworth/Malton locals. Not the greatest of quality but only 23 mins, worth a watch if only to remind us that there are real people affected by this dreadful case.

I was struck by the point in the documentary at 12m 40s where PL appears on the programme and DI Adrian Gathercole from NYP reveals a new lead from 'someone who we've spoken to a number of times during the investigation' - who disclosed that CL had been out a couple of nights earlier with someone who 'she referred to as a boyfriend'.

I was struck by the bit in bold [as with a previous observation I made when DI Galloway discussed this, there was a definite chill when describing this informant] - and by PLs face immediately after this was imparted.

 

[MajorLang]

Sometimes it is useful to go back to earlier periods in the case. I watched a youtube video uploaded by Stephanie Cole

featuring Peter L's appearance in the Missing tv programme made in 2010. Other contributions are made by friends and family, members of the public and Heworth/Malton locals. Not the greatest of quality but only 23 mins, worth a watch if only to remind us that there are real people affected by this dreadful case.

I was struck by the point in the documentary at 12m 40s where PL appears on the programme and DI Adrian Gathercole from NYP reveals a new lead from 'someone who we've spoken to a number of times during the investigation' - who disclosed that CL had been out a couple of nights earlier with someone who 'she referred to as a boyfriend'.

I was struck by the bit in bold [as with a previous observation I made when DI Galloway discussed this, there was a definite chill when describing this informant] - and by PLs face immediately after this was imparted.

@Yozzer This is a really good insight. Firstly that the person had been spoken to "A number of times" and over a relatively short period of the investigation (1 Year). But Peters face is a real giveaway. Firstly-It seems to come as news to him.
Secondly, there is a sense that he is sickened by the revelation and not because she had a new boyfriend.
Was his expression telling is the same as I am feeling-That this was a lie. That the person interviewed had 12 months and many face to face opportunities to reveal this but chose the moment, most probably when his own back was against the wall and as all small minds and sick people do-introduce a red herring?

Now in another article, the police mention this person who reveals the information as a work colleague. But were they a "direct" colleague who worked in the restaurant or perhaps a colleague from the wider university community who took meals in the cafe?
This for me and I know many others signifies that the "New Boyfriend" is a made up character. A patsy.
We saw this earlier in this case when and I say possibly, the same informant may well have tried to put Richard Cartwright in the frame as Alley man. When the guy was dead and couldn't speak for himself.

clearly someone who will go to any lengths to throw someone else under a bus.

 

[Yozzer]

@Yozzer This is a really good insight. Firstly that the person had been spoken to "A number of times" and over a relatively short period of the investigation (1 Year). But Peters face is a real giveaway. Firstly-It seems to come as news to him.
Secondly, there is a sense that he is sickened by the revelation and not because she had a new boyfriend.
Was his expression telling is the same as I am feeling-That this was a lie. That the person interviewed had 12 months and many face to face opportunities to reveal this but chose the moment, most probably when his own back was against the wall and as all small minds and sick people do-introduce a red herring?

Now in another article, the police mention this person who reveals the information as a work colleague. But were they a "direct" colleague who worked in the restaurant or perhaps a colleague from the wider university community who took meals in the cafe?
This for me and I know many others signifies that the "New Boyfriend" is a made up character. A patsy.
We saw this earlier in this case when and I say possibly, the same informant may well have tried to put Richard Cartwright in the frame as Alley man. When the guy was dead and couldn't speak for himself.

clearly someone who will go to any lengths to throw someone else under a bus.

Re the person who had been spoken to by police 'a number of times' .... I know the person arrested immediately after the 'alley man' cctv was publicised, and widely believed by media to be him, had been spoken to 4 times before the arrest in 2015. I also recall Peter L, reacting to his arrest, said it was 'long overdue'.

 

[Deleted member 219975]

where was the field they searched?

 

[Deleted member 219975]

it says yards from the university but looked on google earth and cant see one with the small carpark and what looks like a square church tower in the background

 

[Deleted member 219975]

well well..the church is Malton priory and the carpark the cops are pulling out of is just a few yards up the road...commentary says few yards from the university...yeh right for yards read miles...of course could be mixed footage to throw people off but the heavy traffic noise could be the a64 just over the field??

 

[MajorLang]

where was the field they searched?

Left field comment when Yozzer and I were talking about "New Boyfriend" revelation????

 

[Deleted member 219975]

I ment the field they showed in the u tube video sorry..the one above..in it it still strikes me as odd her friend says "if she comes back"..

 

[Yozzer]

I ment the field they showed in the u tube video sorry..the one above..in it it still strikes me as odd her friend says "if she comes back"..

I took that as avoidance of falling into being seen to discuss her in past tense for some reason. Unless it is in consideration of her mother who believed for a long time she was still alive. It certainly wasn't the police view after just a couple of months.

 

[MajorLang]

I took that as avoidance of falling into being seen to discuss her in past tense for some reason. Unless it is in consideration of her mother who believed for a long time she was still alive. It certainly wasn't the police view after just a couple of months.

Poor Jen,
I suppose that as this was filmed a year after Claudia dissapeared and as time passes the likelihood of her returning is reduced.
Jen must have been besides herself with worry at this point, something that probably will never go away until the truth comes out. But then what does the worry get replaced with?

 

[x_caz_x]

Poor Jen,
I suppose that as this was filmed a year after Claudia dissapeared and as time passes the likelihood of her returning is reduced.
Jen must have been besides herself with worry at this point, something that probably will never go away until the truth comes out. But then what does the worry get replaced with?

That's the £1 million question...

 

[chimpface]

Poor Jen,
I suppose that as this was filmed a year after Claudia dissapeared and as time passes the likelihood of her returning is reduced.
Jen must have been besides herself with worry at this point, something that probably will never go away until the truth comes out. But then what does the worry get replaced with?

Fear?

 

[Pinkizzy]

The Stephanie Cole video shows PL with a knowing look, he doesn't look surprised by the new witness claim. He has been briefed by the police and knows what to expect.

 

[moonsafari]

Hi all, just caught up with the thread: loads more points and observations thanks for such interesting reading, and hello to all contributors and readers past and present.

A camera directed towards outside of CL's front door, filming her re-enter her home the aft of March 18th - can you link to the forum post claiming this ML? Nuts!
As other Sleuths have already pointed out, why on earth weren't police able to ascertain whether she left the house via the front door again that night or next morning if true?

Think in these terms: the perps, being close to CL and local that is, may have known about the CCTV/had been familiar with the neighbour and whoever else operated home CCTV along the street, in which case Claudia's abduction by them, from her home - via the front door - takes on Mission Impossible levels of risk. This leaves a question mark above the role of the alleyway, the large Ford Ranger, and other possibilities, as to what really happened to Claudia that fateful night/morning.

Why did Claudia go missing when she did?
* Ray's holiday (accident)
* She was known to be walking to work that day (premed)
* New boyfriend (crime of 'passion')
* Conflict with some of her friends/colleagues (any and all)
* Stranger danger
* Hired hit

Feels like we're forever on the cusp of a breakthrough, but alas.....

 

[MajorLang]

Hi all, just caught up with the thread: loads more points and observations thanks for such interesting reading, and hello to all contributors and readers past and present.

A camera directed towards outside of CL's front door, filming her re-enter her home the aft of March 18th - can you link to the forum post claiming this ML? Nuts!
As other Sleuths have already pointed out, why on earth weren't police able to ascertain whether she left the house via the front door again that night or next morning if true?

Think in these terms: the perps, being close to CL and local that is, may have known about the CCTV/had been familiar with the neighbour and whoever else operated home CCTV along the street, in which case Claudia's abduction by them, from her home - via the front door - takes on Mission Impossible levels of risk. This leaves a question mark above the role of the alleyway, the large Ford Ranger, and other possibilities, as to what really happened to Claudia that fateful night/morning.

Why did Claudia go missing when she did?
* Ray's holiday (accident)
* She was known to be walking to work that day (premed)
* New boyfriend (crime of 'passion')
* Conflict with some of her friends/colleagues (any and all)
* Stranger danger
* Hired hit

Feels like we're forever on the cusp of a breakthrough, but alas.....

Hi @moonsafari Good to have you back. The info re the neighburs camera came from an FB poster in one of Claudia groups. The Cold Case team of Cleveland and N Yorkshire had been asked to confirm how Police knew that Claudia had returned home after popping out for an errand that afternoon. Police confirmed that at 15:05 she was seen walking from the direction of East Parade and into her home.
When challenged as to why they did not show Claudias LAST footage they claimed that the quality was poor and was from a camera inside one of the downstairs windows of a house opposite. however, the footage was clear enough to make out that it was Claudia and that she returned home at 15:05 alone. However they said that the key reason for not sharing this info was due to it being a PRIVATE cctv camera and footage. When reminded that in the case of Leah Croucher recently, he rlast and only cctv sighting was from a private house footage, they refused to comment and the FB contact with Cold case is awaiting confirmation from them re any other footage that as you say would be critical.

However, you do raise a very good point. If it was known that a camera existed then steps may have been taken to use the rear entrance of her house and the laneway, perhaps to Heworth Place, or better still to the Nags Car Park. it may have been best for them to use this route anyway as quieter and away from any likely disturbance.

I dont believe that the Perps would be aware of this camera, it was a "Tom Tom" type camera and not obvious from the street. In fact i have tried to see it on Google maps around that time and cant see it.

I feel that perhaps the Police contact he revealed this info may now be regretting this?? Perhaps the evidence that it revealed resulted in the 4 being arrested and they wish to preserve evidence?

 

[MajorLang]

Hi all, just caught up with the thread: loads more points and observations thanks for such interesting reading, and hello to all contributors and readers past and present.

A camera directed towards outside of CL's front door, filming her re-enter her home the aft of March 18th - can you link to the forum post claiming this ML? Nuts!
As other Sleuths have already pointed out, why on earth weren't police able to ascertain whether she left the house via the front door again that night or next morning if true?

Think in these terms: the perps, being close to CL and local that is, may have known about the CCTV/had been familiar with the neighbour and whoever else operated home CCTV along the street, in which case Claudia's abduction by them, from her home - via the front door - takes on Mission Impossible levels of risk. This leaves a question mark above the role of the alleyway, the large Ford Ranger, and other possibilities, as to what really happened to Claudia that fateful night/morning.

Why did Claudia go missing when she did?
* Ray's holiday (accident)
* She was known to be walking to work that day (premed)
* New boyfriend (crime of 'passion')
* Conflict with some of her friends/colleagues (any and all)
* Stranger danger
* Hired hit

Feels like we're forever on the cusp of a breakthrough, but alas.....

@moonsafari My replies to your questions:

Why did Claudia go missing when she did?
* Ray's holiday (accident)
He went on holiday early morning of 18th to Tunisia for 4 weeks, had been counting down to this on FB and probably telling all locals also in the pub. How did he get to the airport? Did he take his car? 4 weeks parking very expensive, probably cost him more than his flight. Who took him to airport? Did he loan his car to someone when away or did someone have access to his keys? was his car used for illicit means when he was away? What was he so unhappy about when he returned that made him announce that he was looking for new accomodation?
* She was known to be walking to work that day (premed)
She told her best friend Liz from Malton on night of 18th (Texting) that she was walking. Liz was worried about her walking so she wouldn't lie. But did someone ring and offer her a lift after the texts to Liz?
* New boyfriend (crime of 'passion')
Was it AC, the colleague of hers at Uni (He worked in Sports Dept and likley took his meals in her cagfeteria) made up new Boyfriend to save his own skinn when interviewed by police for not the first time? New boyfriend and out all night the night before may act as a smokescreen for her not going out again on night of 18th?
* Conflict with some of her friends/colleagues (any and all)
She put off her Sister Ali from visiting for the weekend to come and her text to JK was either avoidance or not sent by Claudia as she was NOT working 12 shifts on trot. She was also seeing Suzy on night of 19th. Something not right between her and JK. Likely because she had said something on the preceding Sunday night / Monday morning?
* Stranger danger
Claudia was pretty clued up about taking her safety seriously. She wouldnt get into a car with someone she didnt trust but that wouldn't include a Taxi-Definitelly not halliwell, anyone who says it is, usually trying to deflect. Claudias Mum has been sucked into believing this by Becky Gooden's Mum who is seeking greater support.
* Hired hit

Quite possible, but seems to be lots of people milling around her house between 05:07 to 05;$2 that morning for this to be an organised hit

Anyone have any other theorys like-Was she dating a Cop (a senior one or undercover and had he breach PACE undercover guidelines when undercover-embarrasing for a force already discreddited and under investigation

 

[Deleted member 219975]

makes me wonder re the "private" cctv from the house opposite. if there was none covering her leaving in the morning why not say so?? I am right that the official police line is that the cctv of her returning home after the errand is the last sighting of her? can you get from the back alley way into the nags head car park?