Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest* #2

[Kikixxxx]

2:32pm - Three groups of evidence will be discussed by Brookie. The date, what happened after the death, and other pieces of evidence, such as the evidence given by the accused's Tinder matches.

He begins by noting the seemingly happy mood of the couple on their date.

After leaving Andy's Burger Bar, he says: "They seem to be all smiles and having a great time."

At the Mexican Cafe, Brookie says similar affection can be seen, such as when Millane puts her arm around the accused.

The lawyer says progression in their intimacy can be seen when the pair walk to the Bluestone Room.

"You can see them holding hands. By that stage we have moved to another level of affection."

Throughout this account, Brookie notes the numerous alcoholic beverages consumed by the pair. He says it's clear they would have become intoxicated.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as Crown, defence present closing statements

 

[Kikixxxx]

2:39pm - Brookie mentions the jury having to watch more than an hour of footage showing the pair at the Bluestone Room. He says this was important to show the pair's relationship and how they were interacting.

The lawyer tells the jury it was an "evolving relationship" and the couple were "getting on like a house on fire".

After drinking at the Bluestone Room, the intoxicated pair walk to the CityLife hotel with his hands around her waist.

"That is a very revealing picture as to how well things were going," Brookie says.

He tells the court this verifies the accused's claim that the pair had a connection.

Brookie mentions a text the court heard about from Millane to her friend. In it, Millane told her friend that the man said he was an oil company manager.

The lawyer says this was a "white lie" by an "insecure" man, and nothing more sinister.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as Crown, defence present closing statements

 

[Kikixxxx]

Defence lawyer Ian Brookie continues by going through details of Grace's date with the accused on December 1.

They had "matched" on Tinder and conversation between them revealed the accused said: "If it's your birthday, then I'm shouting [paying]".

CCTV footage depicts an "evolving relationship" of young people enjoying each other's company and drinking at several bars in central Auckland, Brookie says.

"You can see they are into each other," he tells the jury.

"We know this from Grace herself when she told her friend 'I click with him so well' in a message sent around 9.30pm."

The pair are seen stumbling and almost walking into a post, before walking into CityLife hotel in an embrace, presumably going back to the accused's room to be intimate, Brookie says.

"Their judgements were impaired by alcohol, the lights were off, and they were having sex. They weren't doing anything dangerous," Brookie says.

"Placing hands of each other's necks is now just a part of sex for some people. These young people weren't considering it to be dangerous, because this is what she [Grace] liked.

Afterwards, the accused went straight into the shower.

Grace Millane murder trial: Crown and defence sum up the case

 

[flutterby]

2:32pm - Three groups of evidence will be discussed by Brookie. The date, what happened after the death, and other pieces of evidence, such as the evidence given by the accused's Tinder matches.


Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as Crown, defence present closing statements

RSBM.

So still no explanation about how he accidentally killed her? Just skirting around the issue at hand then.

Also, if *his* behaviour after the death apparently doesn't matter, then surely *her* behaviour behind she died shouldn't matter either? Hmmm?

 

[Mariposa]

The lights were off. Ok now it’s all understandable what happened (sarcasm)

I’m really wondering the age breakdown of the jurors. Seems like Brookie is pushing the “young people today with their strange drunken sexing in the dark, sometimes it just goes wrong”.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

RSBM

The murder charge focuses on the death of Grace Millane.
But the Crown has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, the defendant caused the death of Grace.
Either by direct intention to kill or by recklessness.
"So, what I'm trying to say is the murder charge is not concerned with what his state of mind was after [Grace's death], this is concerned with what his state of mind was during her death.
"The Crown has to prove this to you."

Grace Millane murder trial: Crown and defence sum up the case

Brookie is actually inferring the accused didn't cause the death of Grace, recklessly or otherwise, she just expired?! I think everyone is concerned about the state of mind of the accused during those last minutes of Grace's life, he strangled/choked her to death which took effort and time!
If this is the best the defence can do, I'm feeling more confident!

 

[flutterby]

2:39pm -

The lawyer says this was a "white lie" by an "insecure" man, and nothing more sinister.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as Crown, defence present closing statements

RSBM (again, sorry!)

Lol, wut?
How is it not sinister to build a completely false narrative about yourself?
A white lie would be saying you are a restaurant manager when in fact you are a waiter or something. Not completely falsifying a career.
Also, I thought he claimed Grace misheard and if was his uncle who was the oil manager?

 

[kiwilaura]

Not sure but it sounds like it... he gets acquitted he walks free it seems..shiver

Is this defendant held in custody right now, during trial? I assume he’s not on bail. Never followed a case with the defendant name and details suppressed, so much is a cipher

The judge will sum up and give directions to the jury. He will state that if they find him not guilty of murder, they can elect to find him guilty of manslaughter. And if he is not found guilty of that then he will be a free man. This is how NZ murder charges are handled, unless manslaughter is the original charge. If the judge's summary is reported, this will be made clear.

 

[flutterby]

"Placing hands of each other's necks is now just a part of sex for some people. These young people weren't considering it to be dangerous, because this is what she [Grace] liked.

Grace Millane murder trial: Crown and defence sum up the case

He didn't place his hands on her neck. He compressed her veins/arteries for 5-10 minutes! Even after she stopped wiggling and fell unconscious!

 

[Kikixxxx]

I mean he’s not convincing me even slightly so far. The crowns Case is just too powerful imo. Like Dickey said... the defence can’t get around those pictures he took, That plus the *advertiser censored* he accessed for half an hour doesn’t show the actions of someone’s who’s just accidentally murdered someone and is in a state of panic. The fact ‘Waitakere rangers’ was googled FIRST too prove she was dead at that point. Then he proceeded to take the pics and watch some *advertiser censored* before he went to sleep...I’m so glad that he googled that first as he’s literally nailed his coffin shut with that... There’s just no getting around it...

 

[Kikixxxx]

2:52pm - Discussing the accused's versions of events about what happened in the CityLife hotel, Brookie says Millane encouraged a form of rough sex which included him holding her neck.

The lawyer says: "They were in the heat of the moment". Their perception was impaired by alcohol, while room lights were off, Brookie tells the jury.

On the claim that Millane led the activity and brought up the subject of rough sex, Brookie says: "There is ample evidence to support the accused's account that that is exactly what she said to him."

He again mentions Millane's former partner's statement about the pair practising safe rough sex. Brookie also notes that Millane was a member of Whiplr and FetLife.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as Crown, defence present closing statements

 

[Kikixxxx]

2:55pm - Brookie says the court heard on Wednesday from Professor Clarissa Smith about how BDSM was becoming more common with young people. He says the theme of her evidence was that BDSM was not about pain or violence, but pleasure.

He also notes that the professor said not everyone participating in a form of BDSM fully understands its danger or the need to consider safety during it.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as Crown, defence present closing statements

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The lights were off. Ok now it’s all understandable what happened

I’m really wondering the age breakdown of the jurors. Seems like Brookie is pushing the “young people today with their strange drunken sexing in the dark, sometimes it just goes wrong”.

I'm a bit wary of this if they're relying on his version, if Grace and he were into kinky sex, lights would be on, imo.

 

[Kikixxxx]

RSBM (again, sorry!)

Lol, wut?
How is it not sinister to build a completely false narrative about yourself?
A white lie would be saying you are a restaurant manager when in fact you are a waiter or something. Not completely falsifying a career.
Also, I thought he claimed Grace misheard and if was his uncle who was the oil manager?

Exactly !!! So He was still lying even upto that point in his “confession” interview with the police. How can anyone believe a word this guy says?

 

[Kikixxxx]

3:01pm - Another man who gave evidence on Wednesday said he found Millane "naive and trusting" on the dating application Whiplr. Brookie suggests that Millane may have had a long-interest in BDSM elements, but didn't have much experience compared to others in the Whiplr community.

The lawyer asks the jury to consider whether this is similar to the accused. The accused had previously participated in a form of rough sex, but only when others encouraged it.

Brookie characterises the accused as a "young man who is prepared to do what his sexual partners want him to do in the bedroom."

The lawyer says considering the inexperience of the couple, the pair being intoxicated, and them getting carried away, the accused's version of events could be seen to stack up.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as Crown, defence present closing statements

 

[flutterby]

3:01pm - Another man who gave evidence on Wednesday said he found Millane "naive and trusting" on the dating application Whiplr. Brookie suggests that Millane may have had a long-interest in BDSM elements, but didn't have much experience compared to others in the Whiplr community.

The lawyer asks the jury to consider whether this is similar to the accused. The accused had previously participated in a form of rough sex, but only when others encouraged it.

Brookie characterises the accused as a "young man who is prepared to do what his sexual partners want him to do in the bedroom."

The lawyer says considering the inexperience of the couple, the pair being intoxicated, and them getting carried away, the accused's version of events could be seen to stack up.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as Crown, defence present closing statements

God this is weak.

Grace's boyfriend stated that she knew about safety.

The woman from a few days prior testified saying she thought she was going to die when he sat on her and suffocated her out of the blue.

The guy who said she was "naive" on whiplr hadn't actually met her. I don't think anybody comes across the same online as they do IRL. It's so hard to judge tone in writing.

If inexperienced couples trying BDSM meant death, women would be dropping like flies. Both pathologists said it was incredibly rare

 

[Mariposa]

The judge will sum up and give directions to the jury. He will state that if they find him not guilty of murder, they can elect to find him guilty of manslaughter. And if he is not found guilty of that then he will be a free man. This is how NZ murder charges are handled, unless manslaughter is the original charge. If the judge's summary is reported, this will be made clear.

Thank you for explaining!

 

[Kikixxxx]

Defence lawyer Ian Brookie now turns to the pathology evidence.

He says the Crown is clutching at "best estimates" for how long it takes to strangle someone to death.

To suggest you have a strong factual basis or a "stopwatch" 5 to 10 minute time frame is incorrect - the experts just don't know how long it takes, Brookie says.

Defence pathologist Dr David Fintan Garavan gave a "conservative estimate", while the Crown's pathologist Dr Simon Stables wouldn't give a time frame at all, he says.

Brookie continues by saying Stables could not find any significant injuries on Grace at all.

"In fact, Stables didn't know what the cause of death was until he got the final police report," Brookie says.

Only then did he say the cause of death was pressure to the neck, he says.

Alcohol is what made the difference here - otherwise a young, healthy person would have bounced back according to Garavan, Brookie says.

"This is where we get into the territory of unforeseen death. This is not at all a domestic violence situation," he says.

Grace Millane murder trial: Crown and defence sum up the case

 

[Kikixxxx]

3:24pm - The lawyer reminds the jury of evidence pathologist Dr Fintan Garavan gave where he didn't believe Millane had been attacked, due to a lack of deep-muscle hemorrhaging. The pathologist says this would be expected if a struggle happened.

Dr Garavan also said alcohol was likely a secondary player in the death by affecting the respiratory system.

Brookie says that any suggestion that death occurs after five to 10 minutes of pressure should be understood as an estimate. Three experts who spoke during the trial had differing views on how long pressure would need to be applied.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as Crown, defence present closing statements

 

[PrimeSuspect]

God this is weak.

Grace's boyfriend stated that she knew about safety.

The woman from a few days prior testified saying she thought she was going to die when he sat on her and suffocated her out of the blue.

The guy who said she was "naive" on whiplr hadn't actually met her. I don't think anybody comes across the same online as they do IRL. It's so hard to judge tone in writing.

If inexperienced couples trying BDSM meant death, women would be dropping like flies. Both pathologists said it was incredibly rare

Yep, and claiming the accused is inexperienced is a bit rich! I suppose in this area, the ball is in the defence's court, they can portray this man with the suppressed name anyway they like. No mention of previous long term relationships or children, just this inexperienced, naive guy who did what Grace said, so it's her fault!

I'm reminding myself the jury have seen the 7 photos of Grace's body the accused took, of her private parts and her feet etc, the trophy pictures, they've seen the horror he caused and he liked it.