AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #6

[Bravo]

There is a slim chance little Dulce is still alive. Several cases where the abductor felt comfortable enough to be seen in public with missing child. So the flyers are important.

 

[Bravo]

deleted by me, double post

 

[janewall]

That’s great her flyer is up.

And this is just my opinion, I might glance at that flyer when going to the bathroom - but a family member handing out flyers when people exit - face to face - gets my attention.

JMO, but the problem appears to be that there are not that many adult family members to do so. Especially if we are looking at distributing flyers in multiple locations. I've discerned only 4 adults - Noema (Dulce's mother, who is now heavily pregnant), Norma (grandmother), an adult uncle, and the grandfather who does not wish to speak or be on camera. Does anyone recall if there is an aunt older than the 18-year-old? That would make 5, but it's still not a large team, and they have childcare and other day-to-day commitments.

This is where organized community involvement could certainly help, but that requires coordination and local contacts, and I'm not sure they have someone with that motivation and skill set PLUS decent fluency in Spanish. Jackie Rodriguez seems to be leading the media publicity effort, but I'm unclear who else is willing to be highly involved locally. The other woman who was a spokesperson at last weekend's vigil surely means well, but she is from Philadelphia – almost an hour away – and likely doesn't have an 'in' with many Bridgeton residents.

I would have hoped grandmother and grandfather's former co-workers, Dulce's teachers/ school staff, and church members would step in to take shifts outside WalMart or other key locations (a convenience store? a drugstore?), especially on weekends. But if this is going on, we haven't heard about it. Noema did indicate at the vigil that from her perspective the community has been supportive, but it needs to translate in practical ways.

It's so frustrating to watch from a distance, without knowing much Spanish.

 

[MLDIgigi]

It's difficult because the silence from law enforcement has been deafening. But abduction with threat of imminent danger is the criteria for an AMBER alert to be issued. I live in NJ about an hour north. The news is always on and we didn't hear about it until the next morning. It was reported she may have wandered off at that time. It wasn't until just after midnight the following day the AMBER came through on our phones.
The info relayed in regards to the description never stated where it came from. I think this is where the public suspicion of the family comes from. Per mom it wasn't busy and Dulce was with a toddler with minimal communication skills. When the description of the POI was released it seemed off, like the child was coached or the family was changing their story?

Sorry if I missed it, but have investigators concluded, as best as they can, that Dulce was indeed abducted as opposed to running off and getting lost?

 

[cody22]

***......moo

 

[Kiranerys]

When I read the replacement theory, my first thought was Dulce could have been a replacement for the little girl found just prior on the ballfield a state away. Not a replacement for a grieving family but a replacement for a person who abducts children and then quickly discards.

That was my take on it too

 

[MsMarple]

This is just so disturbing that she's been missing without a trace all this time.

I keep trying to think of scenarios that could have happened, but we've discussed them all, without results.

I just think it was someone who knew that area. Knew that there were no working cameras where they abducted her. I feel it's someone she was familiar with. They never find her ice cream cup or spoon, which for me, has been important. One of both of those items should have been found. My thoughts are that someone she was familiar with told her she could eat it in the car, and she went willingly, having no clue that she would not come back to the park to play with her brother. Somehow, this person coaxed her.

I know many say that a child would go with a stranger willingly, and that is possible, too.

And what about the part where the abductor knocked the ice cream out of Dulce's brother's hand, causing him to cry? Why would he do that? How did the perp know he had enough time to make a getaway with Dulce before her mom got out of the car and saw him?

Did he have a back up plan in case mom showed up faster than he thought? Had he observed the family before and knew mom usually stayed in the car? If that was the case then why draw her attention by causing the little brother to cry?

Sooooo frustrating.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

And what about the part where the abductor knocked the ice cream out of Dulce's brother's hand, causing him to cry? Why would he do that? How did the perp know he had enough time to make a getaway with Dulce before her mom got out of the car and saw him?

Did he have a back up plan in case mom showed up faster than he thought? Had he observed the family before and knew mom usually stayed in the car? If that was the case then why draw her attention by causing the little brother to cry?

Sooooo frustrating.

ITA
Only thing I can think of, is that he was trying to distract Dulce’s brother.
I really don’t feel like Dulce’s abductor is all that smart. I think he saw the opportunity to grab her & took it. He knows that park & surrounding areas. He is local IMO

 

[MLDIgigi]

Where did this knock the ice cream out of his hand come from?

And what about the part where the abductor knocked the ice cream out of Dulce's brother's hand, causing him to cry? Why would he do that? How did the perp know he had enough time to make a getaway with Dulce before her mom got out of the car and saw him?

Did he have a back up plan in case mom showed up faster than he thought? Had he observed the family before and knew mom usually stayed in the car? If that was the case then why draw her attention by causing the little brother to cry?

Sooooo frustrating.

 

[Sillybilly]

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[MsMarple]

Where did this knock the ice cream out of his hand come from?

From the 911 call.

"Me and my sister we came down, but when we got here at the park, she wasn't here," Alavez Pérez tells police after being transferred by the 911 operator. "My son was just crying... they say that somebody just threw his ice cream on the floor and my daughter just ran away."
'I Can't Find My Daughter': Dulce María's Mom's Call to 911

 

[MsBetsy]

Where did this knock the ice cream out of his hand come from?

When she found her son his icecream was on the ground and he was crying. When she asked him where Dulce went, he pointed to the isolated buildings.
Then after searching for her she relayed on the 911 call that someone told her a man knocked his icecream on the ground.

Imo

 

[MissMalowe]

Someone throwing his ice cream on the ground & Dulce running away doesn't really fit the "summoned to a van" theory.

Yet the Red Van theory (as far as I know) never had the ice cream throwing incident mentioned or elaborated on.

Were people just assuming someone threw his ice cream down? Is it possible it was a simple matter of he dropped his own ice cream and someone made an assumption that someone else did it or that it was directly related?

Knocking a kids ice cream out of their hand to make them visibly/audibly upset and more likely to run to their parents sooner or to draw more attention to yourself is a real bone-headed idea to add to your abduct a child plans. But then again I guess we've seen criminals do dumber things on here before.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Just-released 911 call from mother of missing Dulce Alavez: ‘Somebody probably took her’

1) “I can’t find my daughter,” 19-year-old Noema Alavez Perez says in a shaky voice as a dispatcher seeks more information. “We were here at the park and people said that somebody … probably somebody took her.”

2) “They said that my son was just crying with his ice cream, because somebody threw his ice cream on the floor and my daughter just ran away.”

3) “An Amber Alert was issued the following day after a witness reported seeing a man ushering the child into a vehicle and driving away.”
————————-
1) So these people didn’t see anyone - they were just saying since Dulce wasn’t there, probably someone took her.

2) They said somebody threw his ice cream (possibly Dulce or she was pushing him on the swing and it fell) and Dulce ran away.
No mention of somebody taking Dulce, she ran away.

3) A man took Dulce and the vehicle was the red van? Are they still looking for a red van that fits the witness description? If not, then what was the vehicle?

Just trying to put some pieces together for a better understanding. Maybe I need coffee or to reread the threads. Maybe coffee with Baileys.

 

[MsBetsy]

Someone throwing his ice cream on the ground & Dulce running away doesn't really fit the "summoned to a van" theory.

Yet the Red Van theory (as far as I know) never had the ice cream throwing incident mentioned or elaborated on.

Were people just assuming someone threw his ice cream down? Is it possible it was a simple matter of he dropped his own ice cream and someone made an assumption that someone else did it or that it was directly related?

Knocking a kids ice cream out of their hand to make them visibly/audibly upset and more likely to run to their parents sooner or to draw more attention to yourself is a real bone-headed idea to add to your abduct a child plans. But then again I guess we've seen criminals do dumber things on here before.

Yes, I think that people who were there just assumed someone knocked his icecream to the ground.
LE never described witnesses as saying this to them, but instead said the witnesses described a man putting Dulce in the van and driving off.

There were at least 24 witnesses that they interviewed, so different witnesses probably saw specific things at different times within the few minutes that the luring and abduction took place.

Either way, LE said that as a result of these interviews, they believed that she was lured away and put into a van and driven away. That seems to be the only thing they are sure took place.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

It's difficult because the silence from law enforcement has been deafening. But abduction with threat of imminent danger is the criteria for an AMBER alert to be issued. I live in NJ about an hour north. The news is always on and we didn't hear about it until the next morning. It was reported she may have wandered off at that time. It wasn't until just after midnight the following day the AMBER came through on our phones.
The info relayed in regards to the description never stated where it came from. I think this is where the public suspicion of the family comes from. Per mom it wasn't busy and Dulce was with a toddler with minimal communication skills. When the description of the POI was released it seemed off, like the child was coached or the family was changing their story?

The Amber Alert was not put out until after LE had tracked down and finished interviewing the 24 witnesses who were on and around the basketball courts.
Many of them left as soon as police arrived and through body cams they were able to identify them and track them down.
It was the culmination of these interviews, as well as a few other witnesses, that they were able to supply the information needed for the Amber Alert.

Imo

 

[ProtectChildren]

***......moo

I know moo means my opinion only, but is the website blocking the letters behind the asterisks to censor curse words or banned phrases?
I've seen this before and don't understand. Is this to remind people to write moo as a disclaimer or is it a sign of agreement to the previous statement. Sorry, it's lost on me and I tried reading the lingo thread for a clue.

 

[MissMalowe]

Either way, LE said that as a result of these interviews, they believed that she was lured away and put into a van and driven away. That seems to be the only thing they are sure took place.

Imo

Except that the prosecutor (who I believe gets her case information directly from LE) has said she is not certain a red van was involved.

The prosecutor said more than 500 such vehicles have been identified and investigated. The description of the vehicle and its possible relation to what happened is not necessarily accurate, though.

“I am not wed to the ‘red’ vehicle,” Webb-McRae said. “The witness that gave us that information is a child of tender years. I will not discount it. I will not ask the public to disregard it. However, we are looking for that piece of information that will help us find Dulce.”

And LE have continued to say that they have not discounted any person or any theory regarding Dulce's disappearance.

That at least gives me the impression that they are not 100% certain that she was put into a red van.

 

[ProtectChildren]

My feelings about the moments leading to the abduction are that this was someone familiar to the family, someone Dulce recognized, someone who knew the young brother was non verbal. Someone who knew they were going to be there.
It was a hot day, the ice cream would have melted fast or been eaten quickly, so to me this indicates it happened quickly. The kids ran from car to playground, abductor calls them over, who knows with the ltitle brothers ice cream, but maybe the abductor said to Dulce to come so they can get more ice cream, they run together to car leaving brother crying and Dulce bringing her ice cream cup with her.

She had those mini heeled sandles and could not walk far, or fast without a problem. So I don't think she was on foot following in the woods, but went in a vehicle with abductor.

This is all imagined speculation from me as an attempt to make sense of this.

I don't blame her mom, for not calling police right away, I would not either. I'd think the child was playing hide and seek and got lost verses abduction. And I agree with the poster who suggested calling the police was a big deal for her mom due to the relationship the community has with LE.

I also don't have a problem with Dulce's mom's boyfriend being detained until he was cleared of potential involvement in Dulce's being missing. Paramour s often are involved in cases like this. I don't fault LE for that. If boyfriend was not considered or questioned I'd be considering him suspect.

This is my opinion and speculation. We don't have much to go on facts.

 

[modesty blaise]

It is still my belief that dulce was possibly harmed by one of the basketball players. How well was that park searched?