UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #5

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I used to enjoy posting on here. it was professional.

We had people bringing new theories and facts to play and we discussed them.

Then something happened, the court Jester arrived and whilst this is JUST an online forum, it does cover a serious matter.

The disappearance of a 35 year old woman who, for whatever reason was taken from her family and friends.

It is a serious matter, yet we have comments from those who cant even spell.
Post as though they are texting their mates in the pub.

Criticise other members rather than contribute and make the whole thread about themselves rather than the subject Claudia.

Make snide remarks and ridicule others.

I have been the only member to kick back and challenge any deterioration in standards and so I can't hold one person responsible for this deterioration. I have to hold ALL responsible.

It's not my forum, its' not the court Jesters, it's here for a reason.

You have to ask one question-Why would someone want to create deterioration of content?
MajorLang
I for one am indebted to you for the tremendous amount of time and work and dedication that you have put into the disappearance of CL
I have been absent recently due to my daughter being ill and not being able to dedicate sufficient time to work with you and other fellow WS members committed to trying to piece together CL movements with a view to finding information or evidence that can be forwarded to NYP to try and locate CL and give closure to her parents. Maybe I am wishing for far too much but like you and many other WS members on here, I am willing to try and do my bit. I am finding @rehtnap posts a little bit condescending and he or she IMOO is derailing this thread without adding anything of substance and I for one do not wish for the thread to be suspended or closed as a result. Therefore @rehtnap can you please do as MajorLang suggested and any amendments that you realise are needed, please message him to correct him and his blog because the thread is being corrupted by unnecessary snide comments and what appears to be trying to catch out a member whose time and energy is currently fully dedicated to CL and you IMOO are appearing to undermine him. If I am wrong in my assertion then I apologise wholeheartedly but please let’s get back on track.
 
it also has to be said that the making public of their investigation into her "private " life was the biggest most stupid blunder of the case. that should have been top secret as it is it drove people to ground.i mean what moron of a plod officer in his right mind stands before the press and says would u mind coming forward and telling us ur dirty secrets...mm let me think...nooooooooooooo
I have to agree with you there and D/Supt Ray Gallloway a former colleague of mine ,was I believe , naive to approach it in this way
 
Just noticed in your case study ML, specifically the People Who Died section, that there's no mention of the I think Scotsman who committed suicide a few months after Claudia disappeared? Was anybody able to confirm if true or not? One of a few loose ends I periodically remember and forget about.
 
MajorLang
I for one am indebted to you for the tremendous amount of time and work and dedication that you have put into the disappearance of CL
I have been absent recently due to my daughter being ill and not being able to dedicate sufficient time to work with you and other fellow WS members committed to trying to piece together CL movements with a view to finding information or evidence that can be forwarded to NYP to try and locate CL and give closure to her parents. Maybe I am wishing for far too much but like you and many other WS members on here, I am willing to try and do my bit. I am finding @rehtnap posts a little bit condescending and he or she IMOO is derailing this thread without adding anything of substance and I for one do not wish for the thread to be suspended or closed as a result. Therefore @rehtnap can you please do as MajorLang suggested and any amendments that you realise are needed, please message him to correct him and his blog because the thread is being corrupted by unnecessary snide comments and what appears to be trying to catch out a member whose time and energy is currently fully dedicated to CL and you IMOO are appearing to undermine him. If I am wrong in my assertion then I apologise wholeheartedly but please let’s get back on track.
I think @rehnap and MajorLang have made amends and I think rehtnap is much more clued on then one thinks .
Hope your daughter is / gets better soon.
Are you still in the police force ?
 
Just noticed in your case study ML, specifically the People Who Died section, that there's no mention of the I think Scotsman who committed suicide a few months after Claudia disappeared? Was anybody able to confirm if true or not? One of a few loose ends I periodically remember and forget about.
Hi @moonsafari I wasn't aware of Scotsman but if you have the detail please let me know and I will update and include
Thank you.
 
I think @rehnap and MajorLang have made amends and I think rehtnap is much more clued on then one thinks .
Hope your daughter is / gets better soon.
Are you still in the police force ?
Thank you for your kind words
I am now retired having done my 30 years which concluded in December 18, however I unfortunately had to finish prior to this as I suffered a serious accident injury at work which left me temporarily paralysed and my life altered significantly from that day forward
 
Hi @Angleterre, can I ask why you think it was naive and how you feel it should have been approached?
Hi
Whilst I believe that her lifestyle choices may have had a bearing on her subsequent disappearance and it shouldn’t be discounted, the way in which Ray ( IMOO) went about it , created a feel of salacious gossip and consequently there are people who may have come forward with information that ultimately didn’t for various reasons. I will say what those reasons may be but I must prefix it with these are only suggestions;
1. Fear of exposure even further if they were involved in any kind of past or present relationship with CL, especially if married or otherwise committed. Had Ray not have presented it in such a way, the press may not have been as voracious in appetite to expose the lifestyles of such potential witnesses coming forward and their reluctance would not have been as great so potentially the enquiry lost evidential leads

2. There were members of the public who because of their own judgmental character , once reading this, believed that CL was a victim of her own lifestyle and subsequently ‘turned off’ from the investigation and any potential information they may have had, they decided it was not worth their involvement because she ‘caused’ essentially her own demise.

How would I have approached it ?

I believe that Ray was right in that it had to be a consideration and part of the strategy of the investigation to follow this line of enquiry , however the way in which he delivered it was particularly brutal. I know that hindsight is a wonderful thing but any major investigation is not just the investigation of the SIO (senior investigative officer as Ray was and as my previous role was in murder or high profile missing persons investigations , but a team approach which includes persons trained in media strategies and how to get the most from such sensitive situations through media use and I would have personally taken what they said into consideration of extreme importance. I’m not saying that Ray didn’t but having worked with him, he was often hot headed and shot from the hip and addressed any fallout at a later time. I personally would have disclosed this in a very much more considered way, planning the media strategy with my team and experts on hand , to the enth degree to ensure that we did our best for the public not to turn against CL and ultimately blame her demise on her lifestyle. It could have been a staged disclosure rather than a bull in a china shop statement that was counter productive to not only the investigation but to CLs family and friends who at this point became alienated from the SIO and his team.


I m not saying that I am right or my way would have worked better and I am not undermining Rays ability as a competent SIO, I am merely of the opinion that the way in which he addressed this was perhaps not the best way it could have been done to achieve maximum return.
 
Thank you for your kind words
I am now retired having done my 30 years which concluded in December 18, however I unfortunately had to finish prior to this as I suffered a serious accident injury at work which left me temporarily paralysed and my life altered significantly from that day forward
I salute you ! And hope your health keeps improving .
I happen to think that being a police officer takes more guts these days than in the past .A determined crook can easily find where you and family live .
 
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Hi
Whilst I believe that her lifestyle choices may have had a bearing on her subsequent disappearance and it shouldn’t be discounted, the way in which Ray ( IMOO) went about it , created a feel of salacious gossip and consequently there are people who may have come forward with information that ultimately didn’t for various reasons. I will say what those reasons may be but I must prefix it with these are only suggestions;
1. Fear of exposure even further if they were involved in any kind of past or present relationship with CL, especially if married or otherwise committed. Had Ray not have presented it in such a way, the press may not have been as voracious in appetite to expose the lifestyles of such potential witnesses coming forward and their reluctance would not have been as great so potentially the enquiry lost evidential leads

2. There were members of the public who because of their own judgmental character , once reading this, believed that CL was a victim of her own lifestyle and subsequently ‘turned off’ from the investigation and any potential information they may have had, they decided it was not worth their involvement because she ‘caused’ essentially her own demise.

How would I have approached it ?

I believe that Ray was right in that it had to be a consideration and part of the strategy of the investigation to follow this line of enquiry , however the way in which he delivered it was particularly brutal. I know that hindsight is a wonderful thing but any major investigation is not just the investigation of the SIO (senior investigative officer as Ray was and as my previous role was in murder or high profile missing persons investigations , but a team approach which includes persons trained in media strategies and how to get the most from such sensitive situations through media use and I would have personally taken what they said into consideration of extreme importance. I’m not saying that Ray didn’t but having worked with him, he was often hot headed and shot from the hip and addressed any fallout at a later time. I personally would have disclosed this in a very much more considered way, planning the media strategy with my team and experts on hand , to the enth degree to ensure that we did our best for the public not to turn against CL and ultimately blame her demise on her lifestyle. It could have been a staged disclosure rather than a bull in a china shop statement that was counter productive to not only the investigation but to CLs family and friends who at this point became alienated from the SIO and his team.


I m not saying that I am right or my way would have worked better and I am not undermining Rays ability as a competent SIO, I am merely of the opinion that the way in which he addressed this was perhaps not the best way it could have been done to achieve maximum return.
I think the fact that her father was a solicitor and knows the law also had a bearing on what the investigation team had to say about CL life style
 
I salute you ! And hope your health keeps improving .
I happen to think that being a police officer takes more guts these days than in the past .A determined crook can easily find you and family where you live .
Yes I have had that threat upon me and in fact to step aside from this thread for a moment , I will tell you a story .... In the mid 90’s a criminal was in dispute with another criminal and territory and leadership aka ‘ ‘alpha male and testosterone ‘ became a huge factor within the disagreement. This resulted in around 40 doormen ( nightclub security staff working for security companies set up by dubious characters) moving in convoy from the Kirby area of Liverpool down the A580 East Lancs road, to the Fazakerly area of Liverpool where the leader knew that the subsequent victim SC would be. The Police, observing this on a quiet Sunday afternoon, stopped the convoy and questioned the leader . However, there were only two Police officers free at that time as all the others ( only around another 6 covering a huge high crime area , were already deployed elsewhere.
Being outnumbered, the two Police Officers were unable to stop and search 40 plus males as at that time, there was no such safety equipment to call upon like CS Gas or ‘tasers’ and in fact we were still issued the old wooden truncheons as the new sidesticks and ASPs hadn’t yet been purchased and issued to officers . In fact , from memory, the Firearms department was very new with few staff and rules of engagement were still in their infancy . Suffice to say that the officers knew something wasn’t right but having stopped and held them for sufficient time to check out if their was any intelligence in relation to this gang of any note, and none being provided by the Police control room , ( intelligence was not known at that exact time about the ongoing ‘beef ‘between the two ) , they called for Officers from the Fazackerly area to take over the following of the convoy ( designated area borders had been crossed and therefore the two initial officers were no longer on their own designated patch and needed to return).
Whilst awaiting the takeover, the convoy having decided that they had been inconvenienced enough already and were not under arrest and free to go, took off.
They travelled to a local pub nearby where families were enjoying Sunday lunch and afternoon drinks and a number of these individuals entered the establishment whilst the others remained outside and they sought out their target SC, their nemesis, sat with his wife and kids and they used CS gas and sprayed it to incapacitate SC’s wife and children and other nearby patrons and they hacked SC to death in the pub before calmly leaving!!!
They were all arrested and I was given the job of interviewing one of the main offenders, 4 individual interviews over many hours. At the conclusion he made it clear that he found me attractive and wanted to take me out . I politely declined and thanked him , however this was not an option to decline as he lost his ‘street credibility ‘, and was very annoyed .
I wasn’t too perturbed at the time because I knew he would be remanded to prison awaiting trial .
A couple of months later I went out with friends in Liverpool city centre for a night out dancing etc and as I approached a well
known club, guess who was standing at the door as security? Yup, the guy I dealt with! To say I pooped myself was an understatement. He had been given JC bail and was now out awaiting trial . He saw me and made a beeline and reminded me that I owed him! I have never been so scared as I knew he wouldn’t do anything because it was too obvious but he could easily get another doorman to do so . I left on the pretext of going to go to the ladies and I would return to talk with him and I was followed to the loo. I managed with my friend to spot a fire exit and made a sharp exit before it was noted that I had gone .
From that day until his sentence was passed for his part of co conspirator in the murder of SC, I was under a risk assessment and even imprisoned, I was terrified that he would get someone to ‘get me ‘ on his behalf. Since that night, I have never been out in Liverpool City Centre ever since and I would always register my car at DVLA, as my world address to reduce being identified and located . It’s a very real threat out there just for doing a job !

Sorry to derail the thread for a moment but the occasional diversion is not such a bad thing!
 
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I think the fact that her father was a solicitor and knows the law also had a bearing on what the investigation team had to say about CL life style
What do you mean? Don’t follow...
 
Yes I have had that threat upon me and in fact to step aside from this thread for a moment , I will tell you a story .... In the mid 90’s a criminal was in dispute with another criminal and territory and leadership aka ‘ ‘alpha male and testosterone ‘ became a huge factor within the disagreement. This resulted in around 40 doormen ( nightclub security staff working for security companies set up by dubious characters) moving in convoy from the Kirby area of Liverpool down the A580 East Lancs road, to the Fazakerly area of Liverpool where the leader knew that the subsequent victim SC would be. The Police, observing this on a quiet Sunday afternoon, stopped the convoy and questioned the leader . However, there were only two Police officers free at that time as all the others ( only around another 6 covering a huge high crime area , were already deployed elsewhere.
Being outnumbered, the two Police Officers were unable to stop and search 40 plus males as at that time, there was no such safety equipment to call upon like CS Gas or ‘tasers’ and in fact we were still issued the old wooden truncheons as the new sidesticks and ASPs hadn’t yet been purchased and issued to officers . In fact , from memory, the Firearms department was very new with few staff and rules of engagement were still in their infancy . Suffice to say that the officers knew something wasn’t right but having stopped and held them for sufficient time to check out if their was any intelligence in relation to this gang of any note, and none being provided by the Police control room , ( intelligence was not known at that exact time about the ongoing ‘beef ‘between the two ) , they called for Officers from the Fazackerly area to take over the following of the convoy ( designated area borders had been crossed and therefore the two initial officers were no longer on their own designated patch and needed to return).
Whilst awaiting the takeover, the convoy having decided that they had been inconvenienced enough already and were not under arrest and free to go, took off.
They travelled to a local pub nearby where families were enjoying Sunday lunch and afternoon drinks and a number of these individuals entered the establishment whilst the others remained outside and they sought out their target SC, their nemesis, sat with his wife and kids and they used CS gas and sprayed it to incapacitate SC’s wife and children and other nearby patrons and they hacked SC to death in the pub before calmly leaving!!!
They were all arrested and I was given the job of interviewing one of the main offenders, 4 individual interviews over many hours. At the conclusion he made it clear that he found me attractive and wanted to take me out . I politely declined and thanked him , however this was not an option to decline as he lost his ‘street credibility ‘, and was very annoyed .
I wasn’t too perturbed at the time because I knew he would be remanded to prison awaiting trial .
A couple of months later I went out with friends in Liverpool city centre for a night out dancing etc and as I approached a well
known club, guess who was standing at the door as security? Yup, the guy I dealt with! To say I pooped myself was an understatement. He had been given JC bail and was now out awaiting trial . He saw me and made a beeline and reminded me that I owed him! I have never been so scared as I knew he wouldn’t do anything because it was too obvious but he could easily get another doorman to do so . I left on the pretext of going to go to the ladies and I would return to talk with him and I was followed to the loo. I managed with my friend to spot a fire exit and made a sharp exit before it was noted that I had gone .
From that day until his sentence was passed for his part of co conspirator in the murder of SC, I was under a risk assessment and even imprisoned, I was terrified that he would get someone to ‘get me ‘ on his behalf. Since that night, I have never been out in Liverpool City Centre ever since and I would always register my car at DVLA, as my world address to reduce being identified and located . It’s a very real threat out there just for doing a job !

Sorry to derail the thread for a moment but the occasional diversion is not such a bad thing!
Ah yes the SC case. That was led by Russ Walsh if my memory serves me correctly. But I digress.
 
The Claudia case is an interesting one. It can't be about one person killing her or even a group "Party" activity going wrong.
In many online forums about this case (WS) included. There are people who are not who they say they are. There are subtle threats and I can say personally that having written a blog this has brought me into the firing line-literally. Not because what I have written is incorrect as I always offer to correct errors, but because every time I get close to the fire, something happens.
I won't bore this group with the full details but yesterday I was set up by the group administrator of an FB group to write a thread about J_K. He suggested it would be a good thing to do to "Flush Out" her supporters and perhaps find out what profile she was hiding behind.
(Screenshot of him suggesting this attached)
Well, my thread immediately received personal abuse about me, venomous comments and threats of legal action. The post was actually one of allowing group members to discuss why J_K was not seen in the same positive light as S_C Claudias other friend. I was actually giving members the opportunity to be supportive of her.

It became so bad that I turned the ability for members to post comments off. The J_K post had got out of hand.

The same group administer asked why I had turned posting off, froze my ability to do anything on the group and then ejected me without any explanation.
That was over 24 hours ago and he has still not provided an explanation as to why carrying out his instruction led to such action??

The Abusive members are still in the group, those that supported me and tried to protect me from abuse were either ejected or had their accounts frozen for 7 days

So for anyone who thinks that I am a conspirator theorist, Please check out the attached screenshot.

There are as many twists and turns and Dark activity in this case as there are to what happened to Claudia.
This suggests a gangland involvement or worse.
I will continue to build my blog and help and work with those members that are as committed. I am also happy to work with our Law Enforcers, the greatest Police force in the world and whilst I value my safety. I equally remain committed to finding out "Who took Claudia Lawrence"

Let's hope that the same "Dark Persons" don't try to silence me on this thread?
 

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WOW, I realised something was amiss, but hadn't a clue that PC had set it up. Some members of the FB group are wondering what has happened but Im afraid that if I disclose this to the group I will no doubt be barred as well
 
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WOW, I realised something was amiss, but hadn't a clue that PC had set it up. Some members of the FB group are wondering what has happened but Im afraid that if I disclose this to the group I will no doubt be barred as well
@Mrs Marple 2 My advise to you is not to post it as you say you will be barred. However you do echo what many of those members are saying already. They are in fear of posting as they could be barred and of course your posting will be quickly deleted. Possibly for the same reason as mine was. What a strange way for him to close his group down though?
 
WOW, I realised something was amiss, but hadn't a clue that PC had set it up. Some members of the FB group are wondering what has happened but Im afraid that if I disclose this to the group I will no doubt be barred as well

You could PM them on fb and not on the group page?
 
C
The Claudia case is an interesting one. It can't be about one person killing her or even a group "Party" activity going wrong.
In many online forums about this case (WS) included. There are people who are not who they say they are. There are subtle threats and I can say personally that having written a blog this has brought me into the firing line-literally. Not because what I have written is incorrect as I always offer to correct errors, but because every time I get close to the fire, something happens.
I won't bore this group with the full details but yesterday I was set up by the group administrator of an FB group to write a thread about J_K. He suggested it would be a good thing to do to "Flush Out" her supporters and perhaps find out what profile she was hiding behind.
(Screenshot of him suggesting this attached)
Well, my thread immediately received personal abuse about me, venomous comments and threats of legal action. The post was actually one of allowing group members to discuss why J_K was not seen in the same positive light as S_C Claudias other friend. I was actually giving members the opportunity to be supportive of her.

It became so bad that I turned the ability for members to post comments off. The J_K post had got out of hand.

The same group administer asked why I had turned posting off, froze my ability to do anything on the group and then ejected me without any explanation.
That was over 24 hours ago and he has still not provided an explanation as to why carrying out his instruction led to such action??

The Abusive members are still in the group, those that supported me and tried to protect me from abuse were either ejected or had their accounts frozen for 7 days

So for anyone who thinks that I am a conspirator theorist, Please check out the attached screenshot.

There are as many twists and turns and Dark activity in this case as there are to what happened to Claudia.
This suggests a gangland involvement or worse.
I will continue to build my blog and help and work with those members that are as committed. I am also happy to work with our Law Enforcers, the greatest Police force in the world and whilst I value my safety. I equally remain committed to finding out "Who took Claudia Lawrence"

Let's hope that the same "Dark Persons" don't try to silence me on this thread?

Could you post screenshots here or in PM. Very rabble rousing on FB perhaps it's best to stick to Websleuths
 
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