If the girls made a run for it, then it must have been after he somehow gagged them. With all of the people who were said to be nearby that day around that time, it's hard to believe that the screams of them running across the creek and scrambling up the bank would not be heard.
I think the couple was BG and one of the girls.IMHO I live in a rural area, near a 50 acre lake, surrounded by woods, & a handful of homes. I can distinctly hear people talking while on trails in the woods next to the lake. They aren’t screaming, just having normal conversation (this is from the other side of the lake, near a dirt road) & I can hear them well enough to know that people are nearby. And my hearing isn’t the greatest.
We have to take into account that sound can carry quite far.
We also do NOT KNOW 100% if any of the witnesses heard anything (like screaming or people running through the water) that day as none of them have come out & said whether or not they did. I do not recall any of these witnesses being questioned or answering specifically about it one way or the other. I am sure LE knows the answer, but we may not until trial.
The only witness that said anything about hearing something IIRC is that this witness stated there was a couple arguing under/near the bridge. Nothing else has been stated publicly AFAIK.
Remember, some of the people that were there that day were probably there AFTER BG had already murdered the girls.
MOO
IMHO I live in a rural area, near a 50 acre lake, surrounded by woods, & a handful of homes. I can distinctly hear people talking while on trails in the woods next to the lake. They aren’t screaming, just having normal conversation (this is from the other side of the lake, near a dirt road) & I can hear them well enough to know that people are nearby. And my hearing isn’t the greatest.
We have to take into account that sound can carry quite far.
We also do NOT KNOW 100% if any of the witnesses heard anything (like screaming or people running through the water) that day as none of them have come out & said whether or not they did. I do not recall any of these witnesses being questioned or answering specifically about it one way or the other. I am sure LE knows the answer, but we may not until trial.
The only witness that said anything about hearing something IIRC is that this witness stated there was a couple arguing under/near the bridge. Nothing else has been stated publicly AFAIK.
Remember, some of the people that were there that day were probably there AFTER BG had already murdered the girls.
MOO
I wonder about that “couple”...never heard if they ever came forward, so you could be right or it could have been BG arguing with his accomplice? I have no idea if anyone else is involved, but since we don’t have much info, it is just speculation on my part. MOOI think the couple was BG and one of the girls.
Anyone else under the bridge would have seen or heard something just a hundred feet upstream.
MOO They would have alerted police as to what they saw when the search started, or ended.
I’m not a scientist lol Just speaking from my own experience.@sleuther0192837465, you bring up some interesting questions (and don't we each have a *ton* of questions about this case? )... While Deer Creek in Delphi is hardly the same as a large (or small) lake, it seems to me that sound does travel better over water than over land. Thus, the fact of your having heard conversations from the opposite side of a lake near you is fairly normal. Water/moisture in the air enhances the speed of sound.
As someone here recently (last few days) mentioned, there was not much in the way of vegetation near the MHB in February, 2017 since it was still winter; there were also plenty of dry leaves (which help to dull sound) on the floor of the woods. Just adding this info to the mix.
IMHO I live in a rural area, near a 50 acre lake, surrounded by woods, & a handful of homes. I can distinctly hear people talking while on trails in the woods next to the lake. They aren’t screaming, just having normal conversation (this is from the other side of the lake, near a dirt road) & I can hear them well enough to know that people are nearby. And my hearing isn’t the greatest.
We have to take into account that sound can carry quite far.
We also do NOT KNOW 100% if any of the witnesses heard anything (like screaming or people running through the water) that day as none of them have come out & said whether or not they did. I do not recall any of these witnesses being questioned or answering specifically about it one way or the other. I am sure LE knows the answer, but we may not until trial.
The only witness that said anything about hearing something IIRC is that this witness stated there was a couple arguing under/near the bridge. Nothing else has been stated publicly AFAIK.
Remember, some of the people that were there that day were probably there AFTER BG had already murdered the girls.
MOO
Oh I agree. When you’re with a group, you’re paying more attention to who you are with.I agree with what you have said about being aware of people in wild areas and sound traveling great distances in wild areas. I have experienced the same thing.
What I have noticed personally is that I am very aware of the presence of other people when I am hiking alone but when I am with other people, I am focused on the people I am with and I miss the subtleties of nature and the world around me. When I am alone, I hear birds and animals, the leaves and wind along with human sounds like voices and vehicles.
I point this out because if Cheyenne's friends or the group of teens were in the area and they were talking among themselves, it is quite possible that they would not have recognized the noise of a struggle (not every person screams when attacked) even if they were within a 1/4 mile or so because they were absorbed in their own conversations and activity.
BBMPer Mr. Ives....
"There was no logical reason why anybody would have known those girls would be there that day".
MOO
I'm often wrong on here, but I took this to mean that in fact, somebody DID know those girls would be there that day, there was just no logical reason found to explain HOW, or WHY he knew. I interpreted it also to mean that the scene was left in such a state so as to prove the killer knew they would be there that day.
For me, I'll have to wait for further explanation, but for now, it would have been much more clear, had it been stated "the killer did not know the girls would be there that day".
It's actually hard to run and scream and more so when frightened. I'm also thinking it unlikely that he could have gagged them on his own, holding a gun and putting a gag in ones mouth with one hand while the other watched.If the girls made a run for it, then it must have been after he somehow gagged them. With all of the people who were said to be nearby that day around that time, it's hard to believe that the screams of them running across the creek and scrambling up the bank would not be heard.
BBM
I find that statement by RI rather subjective. It actually makes no sense to me at least. I don't believe RI has any way of knowing conclusively, that there was no "logical" reason why anyone would have known the girls would be there. Information travels instantaneously these days as is proven by the pic Libby posted of Abby on Instagram. Even prior to that, all it would take is KG telling someone, anyone that she dropped off her sister at the trails. Or, DG telling someone he has to pick up the girls at the trails on his way home. Or, BP telling someone innocently that the girls went to the trails. If someone was looking for an opportunity to commit this crime, that's all it took. Libby used apps where messages disappear and were likely difficult to track.
Just seems like an odd thing to say. Of course, that's JMO.
Curveball, what if Bridge Guy is actually a Bridge Gal? I mean it's possible, correct? Unless LE has DNA and they ruled that out.
Curveball, what if Bridge Guy is actually a Bridge Gal? I mean it's possible, correct? Unless LE has DNA and they ruled that out.
No, he sure wasn't. check out frame 47 of the video closely. He was not wearing a hat.
Doug Carter is BG, confirmed! JUST KIDDING. But you know some of us were ready to go there.
MOO
I see him crossing over his left leg to his right towards Libby cutting off Abby. His right foot is already planted in the direction.
I think this is the first step running them down, the first step of the crime.
Boxer, but didn’t we hear that he was far from them, that the video is pixelated because it is enlarged. In such a case, he could not be cutting off anyone, could he?