Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #119

[MingyMoo]

I think I am taking my leave from the Forum until the New Year. Please can I take the opportunity to wish my fellow Websleuthers a peaceful and happy Christmas and may the New Year bring answers to this very sad case for their families. May today be the day.

Merry & Peaceful Christmas Everyone.
MingyMoo *advertiser censored*

 

[carbuff]

I think I am taking my leave from the Forum until the New Year. Please can I take the opportunity to wish my fellow Websleuthers a peaceful and happy Christmas and may the New Year bring answers to this very sad case for their families. May today be the day.

Merry & Peaceful Christmas Everyone.
MingyMoo *advertiser censored*

And a merry Christmas and happy new year to you too!

 

[Ravenmoon]

Roger that. I will refrain from posting anything else.

I HOPE you and all the other amazing posters continue. The discussion is interesting and the observations, as always, are astute.

It just took SO long for the A&L forum to be open again.. and we have SO many amazing sleuthers.. I think the key to keep the discussion alive is being a bit more careful with names and such.

 

[tresir2012]

I think I am taking my leave from the Forum until the New Year. Please can I take the opportunity to wish my fellow Websleuthers a peaceful and happy Christmas and may the New Year bring answers to this very sad case for their families. May today be the day.

Merry & Peaceful Christmas Everyone.
MingyMoo *advertiser censored*

Same to you MM. I hope something breaks. Today is the day.

 

[tresir2012]

I HOPE you and all the other amazing posters continue. The discussion is interesting and the observations, as always, are astute.

It just took SO long for the A&L forum to be open again.. and we have SO many amazing sleuthers.. I think the key to keep the discussion alive is being a bit more careful with names and such.

I agree. Discussing the theory of a sexual predator is within TOS. And the area does seem to have more than its fair share.

 

[carbuff]

I agree. Discussing the theory of a sexual predator is within TOS. And the area does seem to have more than its fair share.

And a lot of them do seem to be connected to evangelical churches. I suppose in an area where the evangelical movement is strong, more predators would be associated with that kind of church, but it struck me rather strongly while I was looking at that summer camp.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Merry Christmas to all my fellow members! Have a nice time with your family and friends!

 

[Dotrat]

View attachment 221819
Merry Christmas to all my fellow members! Have a nice time with your family and friends!

Thank you, may all have a safe, happy, holiday season!

 

[Charlot123]

And a lot of them do seem to be connected to evangelical churches. I suppose in an area where the evangelical movement is strong, more predators would be associated with that kind of church, but it struck me rather strongly while I was looking at that summer camp.

No more than anywhere else. MOO. But mega- churches are rich, so with the lawyers after them, these cases become known.

However, I believe there are non-protestant churches where the whole structure predisposes their servants of God to predatory behavior.

Any church where celibacy for the priests is a must, ends up with immense amount of sexual abuse of minors and scandals. Depending on the system and country, it is either covered or not at all, but it is my belief that sooner or later these big, major, rich churches will have to drop the celibacy requirement, or - cease to exist. Humans are humans, it is inhumane to tie them up with such vows. On the other hand, I won't exclude that young people who may already feel this attraction to minors might choose the vocation where it is easier to conceal/quietly practice it.

Compared to them, there are fewer sex scandals in protestant churches (and for this, essentially, we have to thank Martin Luther, a simple Augustine friar), but what is typical for them, MOO, is very demonstrative love of God, the one that is loudly proclaimed everywhere. So of course when these mammoths, when these priests from mega-churches, fall to sex scandals, one wants to ask, "dude, what were you thinking of?"

 

[carbuff]

I certainly did not mean to imply that the evangelical churches were the only ones with sex scandals! But I did find quite a cluster of offenders from the evangelical side.

 

[Charlot123]

I certainly did not mean to imply that the evangelical churches were the only ones with sex scandals! But I did find quite a cluster of offenders from the evangelical side.

Definitely. The question is, whether the rate is higher than in general non-evangelical population, or the same? I would assume it is approximately the same, but because of what they preach, when they fall, it gets widely known. But the structure of their churches does not necessarily predispose to generating predators, no more than average society, this is what I meant.

 

[Charlot123]

Merry Hannukah to those who celebrate!
Merry Christmas to those who celebrate!
Merry Kwanzaa to those who celebrate!

And HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone!

 

[carbuff]

Definitely. The question is, whether the rate is higher than in general non-evangelical population, or the same? I would assume it is approximately the same, but because of what they preach, when they fall, it gets widely known. But the structure of their churches does not necessarily predispose to generating predators, no more than average society, this is what I meant.

Oh, okay, that's for sure. Totally agree that it's probably overall about the same. Which is why the cluster kind of jumped out at me.

It's probably a statistical anomaly.

 

[Charlot123]

Oh, okay, that's for sure. Totally agree that it's probably overall about the same. Which is why the cluster kind of jumped out at me.

It's probably a statistical anomaly.

And you might be right. I have two priests as close relatives from "the old country" and one from here. Different Xtian denominations. It would be interesting to ask them what happens within the churches IRL, and if there are any provoking factors, or perhaps inability to cope with the problem.

 

[carbuff]

And you might be right. I have two priests as close relatives from "the old country" and one from here. Different Xtian denominations. It would be interesting to ask them what happens within the churches IRL, and if there are any provoking factors, or perhaps inability to cope with the problem.

I think in most cases it's more about power than about religion. A spiritual advisor is in a prime position to mislead or mistreat a vulnerable person. The temptation to abuse that power must be hard to resist for many people.

 

[KayBe]

Pastor Says Clayton Jennings Sent 'Nudes' to 16-Year-Old, Police Notified

I hope this is allowed. If not, Mods please delete.

 

[NancyDrew3]

Definitely. The question is, whether the rate is higher than in general non-evangelical population, or the same? I would assume it is approximately the same, but because of what they preach, when they fall, it gets widely known. But the structure of their churches does not necessarily predispose to generating predators, no more than average society, this is what I meant.

A Websleuth in the Abby & Libby thread recently published statistics about the top occupations for violent sociopaths. The clergy was not in the top 5, as I recall- which is a very good thing imho. However, wherever there is closeness beyond normal professionalism, in any occupation, abuse can arise. That is why there are so many proscriptions against such behavior in the public realm. But those who prey on children have a particularly disturbed mindset...that is one of the greatest violations of trust possible.

Happy Holidays to all! Thanks for letting me participate here. I read more than contribute, but sometimes something speaks to me and I speak up. I learn from everyone here. I hope Libby and Abby’s killer(s) are brought to justice this coming year...it’s hard for all of us who have come to care about them and it must be so much more difficult for their families. If any of them read here, I hope they know we stand with them.

 

[Charlot123]

I think in most cases it's more about power than about religion. A spiritual advisor is in a prime position to mislead or mistreat a vulnerable person. The temptation to abuse that power must be hard to resist for many people.

Any person of power abusing his subservient is essentially the same, be it a priest, a politician or a very rich man. But - MOO - to this, in religion, you have to add something else, what the togetherness of divination brings out in people.

Literature is full of stories when spiritual advisers overstepped the boundaries. The first that comes to mind is the Portuguese novel "the crime of Padre Amaro", and the most tragic one is "the Thornbirds".

But in the best of stories, it is not only the power. The confession, or some other divine rituals, bring people close; I think it is that bond of spiritual love that makes some people feel they know each other, and eventually, cross the line. (If we are talking about serious, complex, situation, not some young hot pastor behaving like a ten-year-old kid).

What I have noticed about churches here, they are exceptionally tightly knit. People pray together, have activities together, there are youths groups... Small wonder that sexual abuse, too, happens within these tightly-knit communities. And the communities try to hide these situations as it threatens the core of their existence.

 

[moonlessnight]

I am no historian but do enjoy ancient cultures and religions. Has the link between the name Delphi and its Greek roots been explored in relation to the murders? Mythology of the god Apollo arises from there. Once a pagan sanctuary, it was overtaken by Christianity. Could there be symbolic meaning of the murders based on the name of the town?

 

[moonlessnight]

I see the face of the man named, possibly the hoof, the shack, and instead of a medieval figure above the shack, I see what might be a girl in a hood and sunglasses inside the right-sided triangle of each N. I also see an I and reversed R and maybe a Z or S inside the I (4th to last letter in second line of text).
What is inside the O?

I do not believe this header was there before (at least I don't remember it and I saw that twitter page before, and I think it is a message, possibly from the family.

I'm seeing something, what looks like the face of a man between the trees, relatively large, the size of the letters (CJ). On top of this head/forehead there is something undefinable, like the lower part of a horse's leg with equine hoof (hoof on forehead), inclined to the left. I'm not making jokes, can't say better, what I'm seeing. I'm seeing no hoodie and no "hat" or "cap". Thinking now, what it could be, this "thing" ...........

I see the man in the upper left, his eye looks like an alien eye. His lips are just below the bottom of the C, to the left. I think it is Clayton himself. I definitely see the shack on the right, but I'm calling it a church with two beams of light shining upon the front of it, the left roof of the church coming down from the bottom of the O, and the left wall of the church right there below the roof.

Best yet though, is JESUS dead center, right between the A and the Y, looking to His left, and upward.

So I think, MOO, you have Clayton on the left, (and YES, I do see the cloven hoof) Jesus in the center, and a church on the right.