Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #4

[LHS]

I have absolutely no doubts what so ever that you would all be out there searching for them. There's a lot of wonderful people that belong to LDS- my aunt married Bishop and they were wonderful folks- miss them dearly. I never got a chance to go to their church unfortunately, but they were deeply religious and very caring, giving, and loving. This is in no way a reflection on any LDS members or the church itself.

These are just evil and sick people who are using religion to hide behind their schemes. We've seen enough sickos do this in many religions- they twist it into something it is not, they express intentions that are not followed by that religion, and sadly, they do manage to find a few desperate and naive followers to stroke their egos while they claim to be something that they are not.

The whole reason I am here is to do exactly this. I don't live in Idaho or any place they would likely be, but I'm trying to offer context as being an actively LDS mainstream member, and to help sort through the confusion of real beliefs, versus fringe beliefs, or various organizations since I know quite a bit about them.

Latter-day Saints believe in honoring, obeying, and sustaining the Law as per our scriptures. Your average "Mormon" is not one that is looking to thwart the law, or wants to see anything negative happen to children for any reason.

 

[loganlocal]

Quick general question for anyone with LDS knowledge: is there a significance when a female reaches the age of 14 in the LDS religion? Lori had made a comment on one of Tylee's SM accounts for her 14th birthday, that Tylee was 'all grown up'. That age has come up a couple of times so I'm just curious. TIA.

Not really. A girl or boy who reaches that age hits the mid level of the youth programs, but that's really it. Frequently they are about to go to high school. They can attend church dances at that point - but nothing significant with that age.[/QUOTE]

Isn't that the age at which you can receive your patriarchal blessing? Also, the age at which Joseph Smith saw his first vision and found the gold plates?

 

[Redvines86]

Please also keep in mind that AVOW and Preparing a People are NOT the same organizations. I have not seen AVOW give a statement, but I have seen PAP do so. AVOW had forums and paywalls, and PAP did conferences open to the public as well as public podcasts, they are quite different in nature, and not run by the same people.

I have been wondering a lot about AVOW and PAP. It has felt as I have studied them, but I could be very wrong, that people often start in PAP, thinkings it's about food storage etc, then get into some of the other new ageish PAP stuff, and then move over into being interested in AVOW. A lot of the presenters seem to be the same people. Reading the PAP lineup for their conferences looks like most of the classes have nothing to do with preparing for the future and lots to do with energy healing, etc.

 

[LHS]

I have been wondering a lot about AVOW and PAP. It has felt as I have studied them, but I could be very wrong, that people often start in PAP, thinkings it's about food storage etc, then get into some of the other new ageish PAP stuff, and then move over into being interested in AVOW. A lot of the presenters seem to be the same people. Reading the PAP lineup for their conferences looks like most of the classes have nothing to do with preparing for the future and lots to do with energy healing, etc.

Yes there is some overlap of people who are involved in both groups, but one is super secretive and the other is much more public and easily visible. The individuals who run those two groups are very different as well.

 

[LHS]

Not really. A girl or boy who reaches that age hits the mid level of the youth programs, but that's really it. Frequently they are about to go to high school. They can attend church dances at that point - but nothing significant with that age.

Isn't that the age at which you can receive your patriarchal blessing? Also, the age at which Joseph Smith saw his first vision and found the gold plates?

You may receive that blessing any time age 12+ So no, not really.
Yes that's when Joseph Smith saw things for the first vision, but the age wasn't significant to the point that it carries over into much else in the actual function of the church.

 

[BigAl16]

@cocomod, thanks for this clarification.

But if the LDS Church did decide to denounce Chad Daybell then do you think that this might prompt more cooperation from his 5 children who by all accounts are not cooperating with LE to find their father or the 2 missing children?

I'm thinking also that it might just be a bit awkward for these various Daybell children to attend weekly services given the situation with their father/his new wife and the fact that 2 children are missing (to say nothing of their mother being exhumed etc.)? I'm having a tough time reconciling the choices of the Daybell children (or even Tammy's family whose status regarding assisting the investigation is unknown per MSM) regarding this investigation in the context of their LDS religious beliefs. Maybe the situation of religious beliefs (LDS or otherwise) doesn't enter the picture when making the decision to assist LE? IDK, right and wrong in this case of 2 missing children seems to be fairly clear IMO so to see this playing out this way is hard to understand. IDK.

By all MSM accounts the children of Chad Daybell are all LDS and yet they are choosing it sadly seems to not work with LE to find the 2 missing children and have publicly stated their support of their father via the statement of the atty.

MOO

Specifically addressing that last paragraph, do we really know that? I'm actually leaning towards Chad's kids having never seen JJ, Tylee, and very little of Lori. I'm not convinced he's talked to them since the police dropped in for the welfare check. I think they defended him at first, then realized there was a lot of things going on that they had no clue about and so shut up. I wonder if they even know anything helpful to tell LE. MOO.

 

[KonaHonu]

I think we need to be careful not to trash on religions here guys.

Absolutely. I have spent much of my life in communities with a high concentration of Mormons. I personally do not have a high opinion of the LDS church so I am not a member. But I have had a lot of close friends who were active members for most of my life.

While the church leaders have many things to consider when deciding what if any statements to make, I have no doubt that if they believed a particular statement would get those kids out of danger they would make it and worry about damage control later.

From my perspective, there is no statement they could make that would be helpful. If they distance themselves from Chad it could set him off and would come across as self serving on their part. A statement asking Lori and Chad to come forward would pretty much be stating the obvious, and they dont seem to respect the mainstream church teachings anyway.

I suspect the church leaders in Rexburg are working with LE in any way they are asked to provide information that may be helpful.

So yes, it is very important not to make this about LDS. I'm no expert on LDS theology or moral ideals but I'm fairly certain it does not in any way condone killing people who are inconveniently in the way of being with another lover.

This is about 2 kids who MAY be in danger from 2 (or more) adults who MAY be a threat. It could also be about 2 people who know their kids are safe and are avoiding LE because of suspicions in the deaths of others that they may be innocent in.

We should focus on finding information that may be helpful in locating the kids. I am cognizant of the forum rules so I am trying to be careful what I post. But I'm looking widely for things like remote properties that an associate might be connected to where they might have a bunker or food cache.

Criticizing the church and their silence, the family members who may want their privacy, and that sort of thing will not locate Jj and Tylee. Let's look for information that may help find them then, those who feel it necessary can debrief their criticisms on how things were handled later.

 

[Steelslady]

@cocomod, thanks for this clarification.

But if the LDS Church did decide to denounce Chad Daybell then do you think that this might prompt more cooperation from his 5 children who by all accounts are not cooperating with LE to find their father or the 2 missing children?

I'm thinking also that it might just be a bit awkward for these various Daybell children to attend weekly services given the situation with their father/his new wife and the fact that 2 children are missing (to say nothing of their mother being exhumed etc.)? I'm having a tough time reconciling the choices of the Daybell children (or even Tammy's family whose status regarding assisting the investigation is unknown per MSM) regarding this investigation in the context of their LDS religious beliefs. Maybe the situation of religious beliefs (LDS or otherwise) doesn't enter the picture when making the decision to assist LE? IDK, right and wrong in this case of 2 missing children seems to be fairly clear IMO so to see this playing out this way is hard to understand. IDK.

By all MSM accounts the children of Chad Daybell are all LDS and yet they are choosing it sadly seems to not work with LE to find the 2 missing children and have publicly stated their support of their father via the statement of the atty.

MOO

They will not get involved. This is a personal family matter, and unless they wish to speak to the Bishop themselves, they will not hound them. I don't think any clergy would do that in any religion. They don't want to alienate them, which is the right approach. One day, maybe one of the family members will go to them for guidance, and the last thing that they need is judgment, especially if they are not involved in any of this. The Daybell children are also grieving- they just buried their Mom, now their Mom's body has been exhumed- that can really shake a person up, especially while the grief is recent. To be honest I wouldn't have any respect for any clergy of any church denomination if they did speak out against a family like this- they do not know all of the details themselves, probably just as much as we do right now. What on earth could they possibly say to the media, at this point, and why would they, to satisfy a handful of people's curiosity? You don't think that they aren't embarrassed or worried about this? Of course they are, especially the children. They need to keep all avenues of communication open for all of them right now, just in case, someone needs to talk about this.

To be honest, I'd be pretty upset if I went to church and my minister and members of the church came after me for details, especially when I'm not involved in any of this evilness, and I just lost my mother, buried her, and now she's been dug up from her resting spot to do an autopsy because she just might have been murdered, possibly by my father, his wife, or someone they know. They need support from their church, not judgment, especially right now!

 

[squareandrabbet]

I don't think it's so much church affiliation as it is a question of moral behavior and perceived family loyalty.

I was raised Assembly of God, which I refer to as pretty holy rolling. If my family member in that denomination had pulled a stunt like this I would turn on them like a rattlesnake.

Maybe the Daybell children, as someone said elsewhere on the thread, are against autopsies, cremations, etc.; and thus are ticked off that Tammy is going to be exhumed. My folks are pretty evangelical, and they're even (still) against opting for organ donation. (OT: I always want to point out that it's a little odd that people who clearly, at least theoretically, believe that God can do anything; are worried about Him eventually arising cremated and partially disembodied bodies; when they clearly aren't particularly worried about what happens to skeletons with zero organs or skin; but I digress.)

 

[tresir2012]

Ok I figured I better look up this AVOW group and it is a group of about 14k members. They still sell Chad's books on their website and do not seem to have made any statement like PAP did.

The website is called LDSAVOW. AVOW standing for A Voice Of Warning. To me they seem similar to PAP though.

So unless I read anything in MSM, I don't think that LE have referred to them at all about anything in particular right? If I have missed anything ( like in GH video's ) hopefully someone can point it out.

 

[LHS]

Maybe the Daybell children, as someone said elsewhere on the thread, are against autopsies, cremations, etc.; and thus are ticked off that Tammy is going to be exhumed. My folks are pretty evangelical, and they're even (still) against opting for organ donation. (OT: I always want to point out that it's a little odd that people who clearly, at least theoretically, believe that God can do anything; are worried about Him eventually arising cremated and partially disembodied bodies; when they clearly aren't particularly worried about what happens to skeletons with zero organs or skin; but I digress.)

If that's the case, it would be a family belief and not a religious one.
That being said - I think it would disturb anyone to very suddenly lose their mother long before they felt they would, and then to have her exhumed.

 

[indicolite22]

Specifically addressing that last paragraph, do we really know that? I'm actually leaning towards Chad's kids having never seen JJ, Tylee, and very little of Lori. I'm not convinced he's talked to them since the police dropped in for the welfare check. I think they defended him at first, then realized there was a lot of things going on that they had no clue about and so shut up. I wonder if they even know anything helpful to tell LE. MOO.

Didn't one of our VI's state that Chad's children also cut ties with Tammy's side of the family? This could imply that they remained loyal to their father on the matter of their mother's death.

 

[Countem]

Do we have any information concerning the makes and models of Chad’s and/or Lori’s current vehicles?

I only ask because I recall reading in an earlier post in this series of threads that Lori referenced driving off of a cliff, and I saw the following news article today including footage of an unidentified SUV driving off of a cliff in California.

SUV drives off California cliff – but neither vehicle nor occupants has been found, authorities say

There is an almost 0% chance that the incidents are related, but it would be helpful to know the vehicle makes and models in case similar crashes are reported in the MSM.

EDIT: Here is a MSM article with the “driving off of a cliff” quote.

Former friend of missing woman, kids speaks of her complicated marital past, with two husbands dead

 

[Redvines86]

I don't think there is anything to be gained by talking about Tammy's children. 1. I don't think they know anything. 2. We don't know what they know or who they are helping or not helping. 3. I feel, MOO, they never met Tylee or JJ.

 

[BigAl16]

Didn't one of our VI's also state that Chad's children cut ties with Tammy's side of the family? This would would imply that they remained loyal to their father on the matter of their mother's death.

There was something like that although I *thought* it was Chad who stopped talking to Tammy's side of the family, not the kids, I'm not sure. This was the nephew (Maxx500 or something close to that is his user name). I'm sure he'll clear this up as he's been dropping in and answering things pretty consistently.

 

[tresir2012]

Absolutely. I have spent much of my life in communities with a high concentration of Mormons. I personally do not have a high opinion of the LDS church so I am not a member. But I have had a lot of close friends who were active members for most of my life.

While the church leaders have many things to consider when deciding what if any statements to make, I have no doubt that if they believed a particular statement would get those kids out of danger they would make it and worry about damage control later.

From my perspective, there is no statement they could make that would be helpful. If they distance themselves from Chad it could set him off and would come across as self serving on their part. A statement asking Lori and Chad to come forward would pretty much be stating the obvious, and they dont seem to respect the mainstream church teachings anyway.

I suspect the church leaders in Rexburg are working with LE in any way they are asked to provide information that may be helpful.

So yes, it is very important not to make this about LDS. I'm no expert on LDS theology or moral ideals but I'm fairly certain it does not in any way condone killing people who are inconveniently in the way of being with another lover.

This is about 2 kids who MAY be in danger from 2 (or more) adults who MAY be a threat. It could also be about 2 people who know their kids are safe and are avoiding LE because of suspicions in the deaths of others that they may be innocent in.

We should focus on finding information that may be helpful in locating the kids. I am cognizant of the forum rules so I am trying to be careful what I post. But I'm looking widely for things like remote properties that an associate might be connected to where they might have a bunker or food cache.

Criticizing the church and their silence, the family members who may want their privacy, and that sort of thing will not locate Jj and Tylee. Let's look for information that may help find them then, those who feel it necessary can debrief their criticisms on how things were handled later.

I think LE have said the kids ARE in danger - there does not seem to be a maybe in their communications. It is a very worrying situation. I wish these adults would please do the right thing and contact LE to give the whereabouts of Tylee and JJ.
In fact, I wish the church would come out and make an appeal to that effect. That is what they should be doing IMO instead of saying absolutely nothing at all.

 

[osu]

DBM

 

[BigAl16]

Oops.

 

[osu]

OSU, wrong thread I think.

Sorry about that! I know better than to try to follow more than one case at once!

Thank you BigAl16

 

[NvrEndgStry]

Ok I figured I better look up this AVOW group and it is a group of about 14k members. They still sell Chad's books on their website and do not seem to have made any statement like PAP did.

The website is called LDSAVOW. AVOW standing for A Voice Of Warning. To me they seem similar to PAP though.

So unless I read anything in MSM, I don't think that LE have referred to them at all about anything in particular right? If I have missed anything ( like in GH video's ) hopefully someone can point it out.

So- the AVOW guy had been running his mouth on a FB group. Very much a Chad apologist and extremely passive-aggressive with zero regard for the children. He comments much in the same way HS did on JR’s youtube comments. Mockingly.