Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #19

[AllGrace]

I have been lurking and trying to catch up for weeks, literally. But I finally have so I have another thought to add, just some cultural insight.

LDS people do believe in preparedness, and we are taught it's a good thing. We are advised to prepare financially to be out of debt and have some back up savings in case of long term illness or accident, or loss of employment. We are taught to have 72 kits or bug out bags and emergency plans in case of house fire, or natural disaster and so on. We are taught to have food storage in case of shortages, employment gaps, or even possible quarantine situations... Just general concepts of being prepared because it promotes faith instead of fear - and financially it's just wise.

Prepping is taking this to more of a hobby level and sometimes to extreme levels. My own father went through a prepper stage where he built a brick oven in the yard for outdoor cooking in case they needed it. They dug a well so they have water supply not connected to the city if they need it. They have a solar generator and battery storage unit in a faraday cage as well as about 2+ years food storage for them and many others. This is beyond what is currently counseled by the church. They have done so because they can and because they want to, but that level is not part of any of our specific beliefs.

My reason for being interested in this case is that I'm not close enough to be a VI sort of person, but I'm one step away in many directions. I'm part of many groups of people who study the end times prophecies, and have heard a lot of these various ideas. I have rejected the ones that are not doctrinal and more extreme... but I have been invited to events by that company we don't name, and I have been invited to join AVOW by various people. I have an uncle who goes to AVOW to talk with his ham radio buddies. (another prepping concept) I know two authors that published through Chad personally, and one of them is a VERY close friend an she was the one who told me about this case. We talk at least weekly. Facebook seems to think that Jason Mow should be my friend as he's at the top of all the suggestions they give because of so many mutual friends.

Because of that.. here's what I'm seeing - There are many who study and are interested in the end times type things in the LDS church. There are three types. The first type sticks only to scriptures and prophetic sayings. The second type looks beyond that and includes personal revelation, discussion with others about non doctrinal speculation... and the third type is so HUNGRY for this kind of stuff not coming directly from the church leadership and the pulpit that they cling to anyone claiming to have more info, people like JR the author and Chad and so on... Lori fits this third type to a T but add in some serious psychosis and fanaticism. It's that third group that are the ones who go off the rails and go looking for anything to satisfy curiosity and impatience in this regard. I recently explained to someone else that though the LDS church says "latter-day" referring to last days type of things, they were named this back in 1830... it's been almost 2 centuries of "last days". This third kind of person is not always involved with AVOW and with that group we don't name or even with cultish behavior - BUT a subset of that sort is! I've suddenly become aware of how many on my friends lists on social media are in that kind of mindset. It's made me a little sick to see how close it is to me all over the place.

The trend I've seen is that third group, especially when radicalized like Lori and Chad seem to be - tend to go pretty drastic and do really strange things believing angels and God are instructing them to do so. I learned yesterday there is a girl I grew up with who is also part of Chad's group, was told by this group that she is one of the 144k and so she divorced her husband and moved to Missouri and is in "waiting" to be called upon. This kind of behavior in the third type I named has been spoken against by church leadership over and over and over again as recently as last October's conference for the worldwide church.

Not sure if all this rambling helps anything... just some insight I guess. (I'm sorry I'm long winded)

Excellent post. Thank you for you thoughtful and clear explanations about the religious and prepping aspects. It helped me immensely.

 

[LHS]

Thanks for your insights. They are really helpful to put it all in perspective. Please keep joining in, it helps us to understand what’s going on in their head.

Do you think those in the third example are still backing CD and LV? The impression I get is they’re distancing themselves from them. Do you think that there are people that might have an idea what happened to the children? Potentially would there come a point that they will speak up? MOO

Thanks again for joining in.

I think in that third type you're going to have a mixture of groups going on there. Some are very into JR the author, some are into Chad, some are into various others of influence right now, and some hop around and take a sprinkling of everything. I think among the Chad groupies you're going to find those like MG who have internal moral values that say, "nope, I don't lie for people". And you're going to have the other kind who justify away any morals by saying it's for the "greater good" in helping the almighty god-ordained Chad and god-like Lori... it's the second sort that might help them. I know one commenter and fierce defender that has gone to great lengths already to deny that they have ever done anything wrong. I think this person is on a fast track to worshiping the pair of them.

 

[kye0001]

Oh it absolutely could be (edit: removed somebody, added anybody). Dark haired tall woman. I don't see a backpack though.
(ETA: I'm not saying it has to be our author friend. Just that she's a tall dark haired woman who knows the POIs and may have paid a visit. I actually think it's someone else, no idea who.)

I don’t see a backpack either. I wonder if the snow made her feel unsteady on her feet? Worried she may fall? We don’t get much snow and I rarely look up when walking in it as I’m scared I’ll fall. I don’t know if that makes sense to those who are used to it but I’m always looking out for the icy parts that I might slip in? MOO

 

[carbuff]

Oh it absolutely could be (edit: removed somebody, added anybody). Dark haired tall woman. I don't see a backpack though.
(ETA: I'm not saying it has to be our author friend. Just that she's a tall dark haired woman who knows the POIs and may have paid a visit. I actually think it's someone else, no idea who.)

(ETA2: better add the link just in case Daybells' neighbor in Idaho captures last known video of JJ Vallow 1:13 in the video.)

Okay, those closer shots I don't see anything that looks like a backpack. I think it was a trick of the light in the more distant photo.

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

I just had a horrific thought and Lord help me, I pray I'm wrong. What if that last pic of Tylee was a set up just prior to knocking her backwards into a hot springs? It is a horrific thought. Me thinks I have watched a bit too much CSI and the like.

Okay, I will be honest. I've never been to Yellowstone or live anywhere near it. I thought you were making up tall tales. Turns out not. Just read an article about people literally being dissolved in the geothermal springs at Yellowstone. YIKES!!! I will have nightmares tonight.

 

[mrjitty]

It seems to me LE have compromised here, assuming murder charges for Vallow are the real game in town.

But with LE already suggesting the kids may never be found, I guess they figure this is now the best move.

If Vallow has killed the kids, then of course she is never going to produce them or cop to it. BUT the upside for the state is that Vallow will struggle to offer any positive version at trial. She can hardly say the kids are safe but I'm not telling where. That will almost certainly lead to conviction on all charges.

This then drags out years, and maybe LE get some more breaks?

Personally I don't really understand why we are entertaining the idea the kids are hidden when LV has never said that herself, and there is no other evidence to suggest it.

 

[kye0001]

I think in that third type you're going to have a mixture of groups going on there. Some are very into JR the author, some are into Chad, some are into various others of influence right now, and some hop around and take a sprinkling of everything. I think among the Chad groupies you're going to find those like MG who have internal moral values that say, "nope, I don't lie for people". And you're going to have the other kind who justify away any morals by saying it's for the "greater good" in helping the almighty god-ordained Chad and god-like Lori... it's the second sort that might help them. I know one commenter and fierce defender that has gone to great lengths already to deny that they have ever done anything wrong. I think this person is on a fast track to worshiping the pair of them.

Thanks for the answer, we really appreciate your insight. Do you think there’s people out that that would hide the kids, even with all this attention, or do you think they’ve harmed them? I know it’s just a guess and that you’re not involved with those groups but you’re closer to it than most of us. I have been trying to understand their mindset for a long time (or it feels like it JMO). I must admit that until the latest info about TRs last sighting came out I still thought we had a good chance of them turning up from some off grid compound. MOO

What are your thoughts? How do you think it will play out? Thanks again.

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

It seems to me LE have compromised here, assuming murder charges for Vallow are the real game in town.

But with LE already suggesting the kids may never be found, I guess they figure this is now the best move.

If Vallow has killed the kids, then of course she is never going to produce them or cop to it. BUT the upside for the state is that Vallow will struggle to offer any positive version at trial. She can hardly say the kids are safe but I'm not telling where. That will almost certainly lead to conviction on all charges.

This then drags out years, and maybe LE get some more breaks?

I think they are hoping someone who might know what actually happened to the kids (Chad, Melani, etc) will crack before all is said and done. MOO.

 

[jjenny]

Okay, I will be honest. I've never been to Yellowstone or live anywhere near it. I thought you were making up tall tales. Turns out not. Just read an article about people literally being dissolved in the geothermal springs at Yellowstone. YIKES!!! I will have nightmares tonight.

Here is the article describing how one can fall in and dissolve.
"A few months ago, the vacation for a young pair of tourists took a turn for the horrific when one of them fell into a boiling, acidic pool in Yellowstone National Park and "dissolved.""
An acidic hot spring in Yellowstone 'dissolved' a tourist — and it's more common than you might think

 

[passthepopcorn]

I have been lurking and trying to catch up for weeks, literally. But I finally have so I have another thought to add, just some cultural insight.

LDS people do believe in preparedness, and we are taught it's a good thing. We are advised to prepare financially to be out of debt and have some back up savings in case of long term illness or accident, or loss of employment. We are taught to have 72 kits or bug out bags and emergency plans in case of house fire, or natural disaster and so on. We are taught to have food storage in case of shortages, employment gaps, or even possible quarantine situations... Just general concepts of being prepared because it promotes faith instead of fear - and financially it's just wise.

Prepping is taking this to more of a hobby level and sometimes to extreme levels. My own father went through a prepper stage where he built a brick oven in the yard for outdoor cooking in case they needed it. They dug a well so they have water supply not connected to the city if they need it. They have a solar generator and battery storage unit in a faraday cage as well as about 2+ years food storage for them and many others. This is beyond what is currently counseled by the church. They have done so because they can and because they want to, but that level is not part of any of our specific beliefs.

My reason for being interested in this case is that I'm not close enough to be a VI sort of person, but I'm one step away in many directions. I'm part of many groups of people who study the end times prophecies, and have heard a lot of these various ideas. I have rejected the ones that are not doctrinal and more extreme... but I have been invited to events by that company we don't name, and I have been invited to join AVOW by various people. I have an uncle who goes to AVOW to talk with his ham radio buddies. (another prepping concept) I know two authors that published through Chad personally, and one of them is a VERY close friend an she was the one who told me about this case. We talk at least weekly. Facebook seems to think that Jason Mow should be my friend as he's at the top of all the suggestions they give because of so many mutual friends.

Because of that.. here's what I'm seeing - There are many who study and are interested in the end times type things in the LDS church. There are three types. The first type sticks only to scriptures and prophetic sayings. The second type looks beyond that and includes personal revelation, discussion with others about non doctrinal speculation... and the third type is so HUNGRY for this kind of stuff not coming directly from the church leadership and the pulpit that they cling to anyone claiming to have more info, people like JR the author and Chad and so on... Lori fits this third type to a T but add in some serious psychosis and fanaticism. It's that third group that are the ones who go off the rails and go looking for anything to satisfy curiosity and impatience in this regard. I recently explained to someone else that though the LDS church says "latter-day" referring to last days type of things, they were named this back in 1830... it's been almost 2 centuries of "last days". This third kind of person is not always involved with AVOW and with that group we don't name or even with cultish behavior - BUT a subset of that sort is! I've suddenly become aware of how many on my friends lists on social media are in that kind of mindset. It's made me a little sick to see how close it is to me all over the place.

The trend I've seen is that third group, especially when radicalized like Lori and Chad seem to be - tend to go pretty drastic and do really strange things believing angels and God are instructing them to do so. I learned yesterday there is a girl I grew up with who is also part of Chad's group, was told by this group that she is one of the 144k and so she divorced her husband and moved to Missouri and is in "waiting" to be called upon. This kind of behavior in the third type I named has been spoken against by church leadership over and over and over again as recently as last October's conference for the worldwide church.

Not sure if all this rambling helps anything... just some insight I guess. (I'm sorry I'm long winded)

—————————

I am a life long member of LDS religion and agree with the above. We are taught to be prepared— but not at the risk of “tunnel vision” and the ignoring of any other belief... you know, like obeying the “laws of the land” and being kind, generous, forgiving and service oriented like our Savior, Jesus Christ’s, etc. It is important to have some food storage, water, camp stove maybe, be out of debt— common sense stuff that really everyone should do.

But this situation is obviously to such an extreme— Chad & Lori have been acting obsessively about the “end of times”— to the exclusion of seemingly ALL other commandments, principles and beliefs the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teaches. Anything taken to the extreme is not healthy— and CD and LVD are definitely firmly in this territory. MOO

 

[LHS]

Thanks for the answer, we really appreciate your insight. Do you think there’s people out that that would hide the kids, even with all this attention, or do you think they’ve harmed them? I know it’s just a guess and that you’re not involved with those groups but you’re closer to it than most of us. I have been trying to understand their mindset for a long time (or it feels like it JMO). I must admit that until the latest info about TRs last sighting came out I still thought we had a good chance of them turning up from some off grid compound. MOO

What are your thoughts? How do you think it will play out? Thanks again.

It's unlikely to me that the kids are in hiding since they have a mother who has made ZERO attempt to fund them, or contact them. A teen with a license and who knows social media as well as Tylee isn't going to stop talking to everyone she knows, or stop fighting for her freedom. You'd have to lock that stubborn spirited girl down in chains to keep her from leaving or making contact with someone.

It's much more likely to me that the kids are gone. Chad and Lori are behaving and acting to others like they have no intentions of having minor aged kids in their life now or later. Chad lied to his own parents and to Tammy's sister about Lori having no kids that aren't already adults. If the kids someday showed back up that would be awkward to explain. I would imagine they plan on the kids not being part of their lives anymore at all because everything indicates that and nothing indicates they have plans to include kids ever again. I think the kids are gone And I think we may or may not find remains... I hate to have to say that. As a mother myself, it makes me sick... but that's what I believe at this point.

 

[mrjitty]

I think they are hoping someone who might know what actually happened to the kids (Chad, Melani, etc) will crack before all is said and done. MOO.

Is Chad one potential angle for cooperation? I do wonder if that is why he has been left free range

 

[raysgirl1126]

It seems to me LE have compromised here, assuming murder charges for Vallow are the real game in town.

But with LE already suggesting the kids may never be found, I guess they figure this is now the best move.

If Vallow has killed the kids, then of course she is never going to produce them or cop to it. BUT the upside for the state is that Vallow will struggle to offer any positive version at trial. She can hardly say the kids are safe but I'm not telling where. That will almost certainly lead to conviction on all charges.

This then drags out years, and maybe LE get some more breaks?

Personally I don't really understand why we are entertaining the idea the kids are hidden when LV has never said that herself, and there is no other evidence to suggest it.

Please no, this can’t drag out for years. I’m too obsessed. Someone will talk IMO

 

[mrjitty]

—————————

I am a life long member of LDS religion and agree with the above. We are taught to be prepared— but not at the risk of “tunnel vision” and the ignoring of any other belief... you know, like obeying the “laws of the land” and being kind, generous, forgiving and service oriented like our Savior, Jesus Christ’s, etc. It is important to have some food storage, water, camp stove maybe, be out of debt— common sense stuff that really everyone should do.

But this situation is obviously to such an extreme— Chad & Lori have been acting obsessively about the “end of times”— to the exclusion of seemingly ALL other commandments, principles and beliefs the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teaches. Anything taken to the extreme is not healthy— and CD and LVD are definitely firmly in this territory. MOO

Do you mind me asking why "out of debt?"

Like one view with climate (or other) disasters inbound, would be to have as much debt as possible

 

[jjenny]

Is Chad one potential angle for cooperation? I do wonder if that is why he has been left free range

I don't think so. Children were not his, so he didn't abandoned them. Not sure what they could actually charge him with at this point.

 

[kye0001]

It's unlikely to me that the kids are in hiding since they have a mother who has made ZERO attempt to fund them, or contact them. A teen with a license and who knows social media as well as Tylee isn't going to stop talking to everyone she knows, or stop fighting for her freedom. You'd have to lock that stubborn spirited girl down in chains to keep her from leaving or making contact with someone.

It's much more likely to me that the kids are gone. Chad and Lori are behaving and acting to others like they have no intentions of having minor aged kids in their life now or later. Chad lied to his own parents and to Tammy's sister about Lori having no kids that aren't already adults. If the kids someday showed back up that would be awkward to explain. I would imagine they plan on the kids not being part of their lives anymore at all because everything indicates that and nothing indicates they have plans to include kids ever again. I think the kids are gone And I think we may or may not find remains... I hate to have to say that. As a mother myself, it makes me sick... but that's what I believe at this point.

Thanks for your answer. I think it’s the same conclusion most of us are/have reached. Moo

 

[BigAl16]

Here is the article describing how one can fall in and dissolve.
"A few months ago, the vacation for a young pair of tourists took a turn for the horrific when one of them fell into a boiling, acidic pool in Yellowstone National Park and "dissolved.""
An acidic hot spring in Yellowstone 'dissolved' a tourist — and it's more common than you might think

And yet you still have people who are presumably literate who ignore the signs telling them where to go and (more importantly) not go when in these areas. Sometimes it turns out ugly, like in this example.

 

[mrjitty]

Please no, this can’t drag out for years. I’m too obsessed. Someone will talk IMO

Chances are it's years? The only short case I have followed is Watts? I've jinxed it!

But seriously when will this even come to trial? 2021?

 

[jjenny]

And yet you still have people who are presumably literate who ignore the signs telling them where to go and (more importantly) not go when in these areas. Sometimes it turns out ugly, like in this example.

But if you actually wanted to hide a body, that seems like a perfect place, doesn't it? Body literally dissolves, so there is no evidence left.

 

[spandangly]

I just had a horrific thought and Lord help me, I pray I'm wrong. What if that last pic of Tylee was a set up just prior to knocking her backwards into a hot springs? It is a horrific thought. Me thinks I have watched a bit too much CSI and the like.

Isn't it awful that we even have these thoughts as possibilities? Not that it makes it any better, but I don't think Tylee would have been pushed into a hot spring. It would be very unpredictable and possibly incredibly noisy. If she were killed and left at Yellowstone (which I'm not convinced of, because as others have said, there are much better remote and random places to leave a body), I think Alex would have shot her first, and then possibly disposed of her in a hot spring. I think disposal, but not death, would have been the usage.

Blurgh. I can't believe I've thought/written any of that.