Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #20

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Christ is Truth said:
BBM
Please don't feel that way. My response was not a slight toward you, it was toward the reporter. But in all reality, I think, based on the date of the article, she was probably being pressured to get SOMETHING out as "one of the first to report..." :rolleyes:. That really shouldn't be an excuse though. I'm seeing and hearing it throughout all MSM. They get dates, names, facts, etc. wrong. Maybe it's because all of you are SO AWESOME at digging up information that we are getting better info here, and therefore are able to point out errors in MSM. :p:D
Click to expand...

Right. Very few journalists writing stories on this are as deep into the minute details as many of us are, with a few obvious exceptions (Nate, Justin, etc). Add to that the things that have changed in the news business over the last several decades (less people verifiying and double checking the writing and facts, for one) and more little errors are going to slip through.

Not meant to be making excuses, just pointing out the obvious reality. At least these kind of errors are relatively minor in getting the overall gist of the story and not done maliciously or to push an agenda. We can't say that about all "news" sources.

MOO
 
DoctorAttorney said:
It really does help. Conversations like this are important. People need to know that borderlines and bipolars are not interchangeable, but they both are treatable conditions. I'm bipolar and rapid cycling, but I also know that I have a chemical disorder and I am on heavy meds for it because I go coo coo bananas if I'm not. And I asked for help a long time ago for it with people I loved and it's not the end of the world, because I just take my meds and keep a good schedule... I haven't had a spiral in like five years, that's how good my meds and my structure works, and I prioritize it. And plenty of borderline people have done the same thing, and are cool and valid despite their problems. But the disorders are not interchangeable... It's a lot harder to medicate or address a personality disorder than a medical disorder for example, but it's always worth the effort. Everyone deserves to be functional and happy and to be a better person.
Click to expand...
But people can go into private messaging if they want to go back and forth, and feel these in-depth discussions of these disorders and meds and more disorders with people who have a deep and sincere connection to these diseases and diagnoses--especially since these are very very personal stories. We are not doctors, and we know nothing yet. We cannot make any determination as to any medical issues with the POIs in this case. I am only speaking for myself, but the complexities, disagreements, clarifications is only getting me totally confused, and certainly not helping me understand Lori.
 
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BluebirdFla said:
Tylee’s Aunt. New interview with Nate. Very sad. Poor lady. Don’t know if this has been posted here. Also it’s important because she talks about JR possibly leaving money in a trust for Tylee that she would be able to use come her 17th birthday..if I heard right. Follow the money.

Click to expand...
Am I the only one that feels like those are crocodile tears?
 
Hippoinatutu said:
Replying to myself but here is information on Lori first husband thats public knowledge.

"Her first marriage was in 1992 to a young man with the last name Nelson. This marriage was right out of high school and both sets of parents paid for the divorce. "

Hahaha my own theory is out window if this is right. (Not the news report I first read but has the same name as I do.)

What is known so far: Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow
Click to expand...
But do you know where this came from. I couldn't find any CA records to match this.
 
DoctorAttorney said:
I'd love to hear about those inaccuracies. Care to elaborate? Also, why should he have gotten a person from LDS do a sensitivity read? What even is a sensitivity read if you are writing a book about the shady stuff in the LDS church? No matter what you're going to offend people with that premise, so why care?
Click to expand...

I can't speak to "under the banner of heaven" but there was general unhappiness in the climbing community when "into thin air" was published. Anatoli Boukreev was thought to have been unfairly portrayed, so much so that another climber published a book "The Climb" from his logbooks to counter the narrative set forth in Krakauer's book. It was a long time ago and amends have been made but here is the wikipedia page on it:
The Climb (book) - Wikipedia

In any event, he is a good writer and always tells a compelling story - but it is always good to approach with a little bit of skepticism when a true story is being retold.
 
nhmemorymaker said:
But do you know where this came from. I couldn't find any CA records to match this.
Click to expand...

Thats why I first put forward the idea that the marriage was annulled.

I too can't find record's but I don't know how that works in the USA. Or even state by state differences when it comes to annulment. Does a annulment say on record?
 
DoctorAttorney said:
I'd love to hear about those inaccuracies. Care to elaborate? Also, why should he have gotten a person from LDS do a sensitivity read? What even is a sensitivity read if you are writing a book about the shady stuff in the LDS church? No matter what you're going to offend people with that premise, so why care?
Click to expand...
He needed a sensitivity reader because he put a lot of spurious material in his book, which was not objective or accurate. I read the book many years ago and could not derail this with all of that. I'm not the first person to question Krakauer's accuracy in his writing. That said, it is simply my opinion, as to my impression of his books, and I shared it, MOO. MOO.
 
j_in_c said:
I can't speak to "under the banner of heaven" but there was general unhappiness in the climbing community when "into thin air" was published. Anatoli Boukreev was thought to have been unfairly portrayed, so much so that another climber published a book "The Climb" from his logbooks to counter the narrative set forth in Krakauer's book. It was a long time ago and amends have been made but here is the wikipedia page on it:
The Climb (book) - Wikipedia

In any event, he is a good writer and always tells a compelling story - but it is always good to approach with a little bit of skepticism when a true story is being retold.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I'll give The Climb a read. It's important to hear from all sides.
 
LHS said:
One of these two is my close friend, and she and Chad are not friendly because Chad is in breach of contract with her right now. She does not share any of Chad's wacky beliefs and is the one who called me to tell me about this case initially and said she always knew this was going to go sour. This person doesn't support Chad in any way, shape or form. She is going through a divorce and school right now so she's living off grants - not wealthy. She doesn't mingle in any of these groups, and stays far away from it all, living her day to day life. At this point most of what she hears about all this is from me.

The other one I know that was coerced and talked into has been referenced here before under the initials of HS. He IS supportive of Chad actually. As far as money, I can't say that he has much of that to give Chad and Lori, but he's backed them with support and other things for a while now. I've seen more than one direct statement recently from him. I just can't post it here because it's not MSM or LE sourced.

I think the motivation Chad had for talking people into publishing with him was two-fold, obviously to make money because there is/was a big market in the LDS world for books like that for a time. (More past than present) and because Chad himself is fascinated with these kinds of topics and wanted to get ahold of more of them to read and fuel his fascination and obsession with it. So when he would learn of these people usually from the AVOW forums, he would track them down and talk them into publishing with him.

Just putting this out there - because of the people I know in these various cultish groups, and there IS more than one with similar almost indistinguishable beliefs, I'm seeing a lot of leaking going on with a lot of crazy stuff.... I just can't say anything here until it goes MSM or LE released. It's so HARD!
Click to expand...

Would you feel at liberty to say (without going into any greater detail) whether the following attempt to summarize Lori/Chad's beliefs (from a few pages back) is on the right track as we try to understand what's going on?

Campizi67 said:
I also agree with these points, and would like to add a couple of my own thoughts. There is so much out there in MSM, but the info that is pertinent, IMO, is this "belief system" of theirs, which you mention, and gives major insight into what is going on. (I have added MSM links for reference to where I received my information, see below).

  • CD and LVD are "sealed" to each other through some ritualistic meeting, by Moroni. They also believe that they were already married in other lives.
  1. Moroni according to the Book of Mormon, was the last Nephite prophet, historian, and military commander who lived in the Americas in the late fourth and early fifth centuries
  • CD and LVD are the "Leaders" and are now responsible for gathering the couples for the 144,000.
  • They make charts of who the people are and how many probation's they have had and who they have been in past lives. The 12 apostles are also on this list. (Tammy was once on this list and was noted as once being married to John the beloved who was also Enoch).
  1. Probation's - definition: previous lives
CD and LVD are "responsible" for deciding if a man and a woman might be destined to be together, even if that person is married to someone else. Like multiple probation's, (this is not a Latter-day Saint belief). Within their circle, this appears to be a predominant issue.

CD teaches that people can essentially be reincarnated and live multiple times — and have multiple probations — on earth. (Reincarnation is not accepted Latter-day Saint doctrine.)

An interesting note ...
CDs autobiography states he does not believe in reincarnation.

“He goes out there, but he doesn’t go that far out,” Bertram said. “He’s making some pretty strong assertions, he just knows that there’s a line and he’s going to stay behind that line.”,

BUT.. LVD, however...
The documents indicate LVD reportedly told her now-deceased husband Charles Vallow she is a “reincarnated God” who would “murder him if he got in the way of her mission.”
  1. Starting in February of 2019, Charles Vallow filed for divorce from LVD and requested full custody of JJ. The court filing claims that LVD had "become infatuated and at times obsessive about near-death experiences and spiritual visions."
  2. LVD also allegedly told Charles that "she is sealed (eternally married) to the ancient Book of Mormon prophet Moroni and that she has lived numerous lives on numerous planets prior to this current life."
  3. Weeks before the divorce filing, Charles said LVD told him that "she is a translated being who cannot taste death sent by God to lead the 144,000 into the Millennium.
  4. "The divorce documents allege that Lori believed that Jesus Christ's second coming would happen in July 2020 and only 144,000 would live through it.
  5. Charles also claimed that Lori threatened to kill him if he got in the way of her mission. "I mean imagine what you would do if you had a god speak to you would start feeling a little bit empowered and it looks like that is exactly what happened," Chad Daybell's old missionary friend told Dateline.

At the beginning of CD's autobiography is a dedication to his wife Tammy: “My one and only.”
The autobiography goes on to describe marrying Tammy Daybell at the Manti Temple and working as a grave digger at the same cemetery where she would later be buried.
CD wrote that he believes their five children will have a role to play in the second-coming of Jesus Christ. Many of the characters in his novels are named after his five biological children. This info found shows why his children support him and why they are all still alive.


So it is obvious, that early on, the two shared different core beliefs, this has changed. We see the change in CD after becoming closer to LVD. remember, he had one wife for 30 years. LVD on the other hand, who at 46 years old, has 4 husbands before CD.

The following bits of info, I believe are very important, imo
  • Zombie - CD believes that a person's spirit can be hijacked by an evil spirit. Then the spirit is in limbo.
  1. CD told LVD that Charles Vallow became Ned Snyder and has now become a zombie, his spirit has been hijacked by an evil spirit. His actual spirit is now in limbo. (Ned Snyder?)
  • CD tells Alex that he was an angel that had come and stopped Laman and Lemuel from hurting Nephi and was now Lori's protector.
  1. Laman and Lemuel are the two eldest sons of Lehi and the older brothers of Sam, Nephi, Jacob and Joseph.
  2. Nephi is one of the central figures described in the Book of Mormon. He was the son of Lehi, a propeht, founder of the Nephite people
  • Alex becomes the "hitman" This is immediately before Charles untimely death.
  • Tammy becomes suspicious of CD and LVD's relationship (aware they are taking trips together) and voices this suspicion so,
  1. CD tells LVD that Tammy has become a Zombie. Her spirit has been hijacked. This is before Tammy's untimely death.
  • Then at some point CD declares Alex, Tylee and Kay are all Zombies.
  1. Tylee disappears,
  2. JJ disappears
  3. Alex dies,
  4. Kay however is still alive.

Recap of their beliefs, imo...

If we take these beliefs, and try to sort them out...
1. You are like/a God.
2. You create the chart of chosen people
3. You decide who should be married
4. You then declare the other spouse/children a zombie
5. Once they are declared... their life no longer matters because their actual spirits are in limbo
5. You then file to receive their life insurance $ (because human greed always has a part to play)
6. The cycle continues.


I write all of this to say.....IMO, killing someone who has become a "Zombie" is not a problem, if your core beliefs are these described above. You are above human/earthly laws and you will be reincarnated anyway. "Death is a non-issue" Which can explain CD and LVD's arrogance and non emotion in regard to any of the missing or those that are deceased. "Their end, justifies their means" Again, all IMO.

I would like to add this scripture, not from the Book of Mormon, but the Bible.

1 John 2:15-16 - Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him, because all that is in the world is the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the arrogance produced by material possessions.

Obviously, the core beliefs of this family are off the beaten path, but it is these basic scriptural principles that humans generally struggle with and are the root causes of many bad choices and lifelong problems. IMO





Doomsday writer Chad Daybell based characters in his books on his family. Now people are reading them for clues.

Court docs allege Lori Vallow's niece knows location of 2 missing Idaho children

A look at the religious circle surrounding Chad and Lori Daybell | East Idaho News

FOX 13 Investigates: Do Chad Daybell’s books leave clues about missing Rexburg children?

Deaths, divorce papers and the apocalypse: How police reports and 911 calls detail Lori Vallow's life | ktvb.com

Case of missing children tied to doomsday beliefs, 3 deaths

Moroni (Book of Mormon prophet) - Wikipedia

Moloch - Wikipedia

Does Lori Vallow's niece know where missing Idaho kids are?

Lori Daybell's niece knows where JJ and Tylee are, ex-husband claims in court documents | East Idaho News

Lori Vallow: Tracking the Movements of Idaho Mom Now Under Arrest After Her 2 Kids Went Missing

Missing Idaho Kids' Cousin Knows Where They Are But Won't Help, Ex Says

Laman and Lemuel - Wikipedia

Nephi, son of Lehi - Wikipedia
Click to expand...
 
DoctorAttorney said:
I'd love to hear about those inaccuracies. Care to elaborate? Also, why should he have gotten a person from LDS do a sensitivity read? What even is a sensitivity read if you are writing a book about the shady stuff in the LDS church? No matter what you're going to offend people with that premise, so why care?
Click to expand...

I agree. Of course, I think part of that comes with the generation I grew up in. I can't remember how many times I heard phrases like: "Suck it up", "Life ain't fair, get used to it", and so forth.

Now I am seeing things that boggle the mind. One of my sons was in detention in Elementary for holding his fingers up mimicking a gun (I thought you've got to be kidding me). Some schools are banning tag, and dodgeball, etc.

So I see both viewpoints. One thing though is when you are writing a book, you need to know your audience and "plant your flag". There are going to be ones that don't like what you have to say, and those that love it.

Case in point "Twilight":mad:, I am personally a purist and prefer Bram Stoker's "Dracula". :)

Now back to watching the show

MOO
 
Hippoinatutu said:
Thank you for giving us the information you can. I'd love to be a fly on your wall too. Lol.
Click to expand...
I assume you live in Rexburg? Is...like...the whole town into this?? I had asked a person who came on line with who lived in gilbert or chandler AZ and he said...no, he had just heard about it from somewhere, but does not feel it is really abuzz in the air at all.
 
Campizi67 said:
I also agree with these points, and would like to add a couple of my own thoughts. There is so much out there in MSM, but the info that is pertinent, IMO, is this "belief system" of theirs, which you mention, and gives major insight into what is going on. (I have added MSM links for reference to where I received my information, see below).

  • CD and LVD are "sealed" to each other through some ritualistic meeting, by Moroni. They also believe that they were already married in other lives.
  1. Moroni according to the Book of Mormon, was the last Nephite prophet, historian, and military commander who lived in the Americas in the late fourth and early fifth centuries
  • CD and LVD are the "Leaders" and are now responsible for gathering the couples for the 144,000.
  • They make charts of who the people are and how many probation's they have had and who they have been in past lives. The 12 apostles are also on this list. (Tammy was once on this list and was noted as once being married to John the beloved who was also Enoch).
  1. Probation's - definition: previous lives
CD and LVD are "responsible" for deciding if a man and a woman might be destined to be together, even if that person is married to someone else. Like multiple probation's, (this is not a Latter-day Saint belief). Within their circle, this appears to be a predominant issue.

CD teaches that people can essentially be reincarnated and live multiple times — and have multiple probations — on earth. (Reincarnation is not accepted Latter-day Saint doctrine.)

An interesting note ...
CDs autobiography states he does not believe in reincarnation.

“He goes out there, but he doesn’t go that far out,” Bertram said. “He’s making some pretty strong assertions, he just knows that there’s a line and he’s going to stay behind that line.”,

BUT.. LVD, however...
The documents indicate LVD reportedly told her now-deceased husband Charles Vallow she is a “reincarnated God” who would “murder him if he got in the way of her mission.”
  1. Starting in February of 2019, Charles Vallow filed for divorce from LVD and requested full custody of JJ. The court filing claims that LVD had "become infatuated and at times obsessive about near-death experiences and spiritual visions."
  2. LVD also allegedly told Charles that "she is sealed (eternally married) to the ancient Book of Mormon prophet Moroni and that she has lived numerous lives on numerous planets prior to this current life."
  3. Weeks before the divorce filing, Charles said LVD told him that "she is a translated being who cannot taste death sent by God to lead the 144,000 into the Millennium.
  4. "The divorce documents allege that Lori believed that Jesus Christ's second coming would happen in July 2020 and only 144,000 would live through it.
  5. Charles also claimed that Lori threatened to kill him if he got in the way of her mission. "I mean imagine what you would do if you had a god speak to you would start feeling a little bit empowered and it looks like that is exactly what happened," Chad Daybell's old missionary friend told Dateline.

At the beginning of CD's autobiography is a dedication to his wife Tammy: “My one and only.”
The autobiography goes on to describe marrying Tammy Daybell at the Manti Temple and working as a grave digger at the same cemetery where she would later be buried.
CD wrote that he believes their five children will have a role to play in the second-coming of Jesus Christ. Many of the characters in his novels are named after his five biological children. This info found shows why his children support him and why they are all still alive.


So it is obvious, that early on, the two shared different core beliefs, this has changed. We see the change in CD after becoming closer to LVD. remember, he had one wife for 30 years. LVD on the other hand, who at 46 years old, has 4 husbands before CD.

The following bits of info, I believe are very important, imo
  • Zombie - CD believes that a person's spirit can be hijacked by an evil spirit. Then the spirit is in limbo.
  1. CD told LVD that Charles Vallow became Ned Snyder and has now become a zombie, his spirit has been hijacked by an evil spirit. His actual spirit is now in limbo. (Ned Snyder?)
  • CD tells Alex that he was an angel that had come and stopped Laman and Lemuel from hurting Nephi and was now Lori's protector.
  1. Laman and Lemuel are the two eldest sons of Lehi and the older brothers of Sam, Nephi, Jacob and Joseph.
  2. Nephi is one of the central figures described in the Book of Mormon. He was the son of Lehi, a propeht, founder of the Nephite people
  • Alex becomes the "hitman" This is immediately before Charles untimely death.
  • Tammy becomes suspicious of CD and LVD's relationship (aware they are taking trips together) and voices this suspicion so,
  1. CD tells LVD that Tammy has become a Zombie. Her spirit has been hijacked. This is before Tammy's untimely death.
  • Then at some point CD declares Alex, Tylee and Kay are all Zombies.
  1. Tylee disappears,
  2. JJ disappears
  3. Alex dies,
  4. Kay however is still alive.

Recap of their beliefs, imo...

If we take these beliefs, and try to sort them out...
1. You are like/a God.
2. You create the chart of chosen people
3. You decide who should be married
4. You then declare the other spouse/children a zombie
5. Once they are declared... their life no longer matters because their actual spirits are in limbo
5. You then file to receive their life insurance $ (because human greed always has a part to play)
6. The cycle continues.


I write all of this to say.....IMO, killing someone who has become a "Zombie" is not a problem, if your core beliefs are these described above. You are above human/earthly laws and you will be reincarnated anyway. "Death is a non-issue" Which can explain CD and LVD's arrogance and non emotion in regard to any of the missing or those that are deceased. "Their end, justifies their means" Again, all IMO.

I would like to add this scripture, not from the Book of Mormon, but the Bible.

1 John 2:15-16 - Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him, because all that is in the world is the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the arrogance produced by material possessions.

Obviously, the core beliefs of this family are off the beaten path, but it is these basic scriptural principles that humans generally struggle with and are the root causes of many bad choices and lifelong problems. IMO





Doomsday writer Chad Daybell based characters in his books on his family. Now people are reading them for clues.

Court docs allege Lori Vallow's niece knows location of 2 missing Idaho children

A look at the religious circle surrounding Chad and Lori Daybell | East Idaho News

FOX 13 Investigates: Do Chad Daybell’s books leave clues about missing Rexburg children?

Deaths, divorce papers and the apocalypse: How police reports and 911 calls detail Lori Vallow's life | ktvb.com

Case of missing children tied to doomsday beliefs, 3 deaths

Moroni (Book of Mormon prophet) - Wikipedia

Moloch - Wikipedia

Does Lori Vallow's niece know where missing Idaho kids are?

Lori Daybell's niece knows where JJ and Tylee are, ex-husband claims in court documents | East Idaho News

Lori Vallow: Tracking the Movements of Idaho Mom Now Under Arrest After Her 2 Kids Went Missing

Missing Idaho Kids' Cousin Knows Where They Are But Won't Help, Ex Says

Laman and Lemuel - Wikipedia

Nephi, son of Lehi - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

This is an excellent summation of what is going on. I wonder if it can go at the beginning of each thread for our reference?
 
Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter





Justin Lum Fox 10
@jlumfox10

Why did Kauai Co. prosecutors ask for such high bail for Vallow? Document says she’s a flight risk after “she left AZ after witnessing her brother shoot & kill her now deceased husband.” Cites she moved to Idaho & fled to Kauai. Docs: Chad Daybell possessed $152K in bank acct.



4:56 PM · Feb 25, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
 
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