Members' Theories #2

[JBRMod2]

This is a thread for members to post their theory or theories. It's not a discussion thread.

Here's how to use it--

Create a new post and call it (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory.

If you have more than one theory, then call them (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory (1) and WSPoster's Theory (2) but put them in separate posts.

Remember - do not use this thread for discussion. If you wish to discuss another member's theory, start a new thread and call it (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory (2) - Discussion.

It will be interesting to compare the theories. You should aim to answer such questions as--

(i) Who the perp was
(ii) What the motive was
(iii) How the perp gained entry and how he left
(iv) What caused the head blow
(v) How long the perp was in the house
(vi) Has the perp offended before (or since)
(vii) What pieces of evidence are for real and what are red herrings
(viii) others?

If anyone wishes to post a theory anonymously, send me a PM.

NB -- Do not name any private individuals (i.e. give them a pseudonym).

_________

Thread #1

 

[Cottonstar]

“I briefly spoke with John Ramsey. I asked Mr. Ramsey if he was sure the doors were locked when he got up? Mr. Ramsey said he was sure the doors were locked when he got up and when he went to bed the night before.” - Sergeant Robert Whitson, official police report.

 

[Nat_Cat9794]

“I briefly spoke with John Ramsey. I asked Mr. Ramsey if he was sure the doors were locked when he got up? Mr. Ramsey said he was sure the doors were locked when he got up and when he went to bed the night before.” - Sergeant Robert Whitson, official police report.

Hmmm...do you know if they had guests over? If I recall correctly I think they come home from a party/gathering the night before but I don't remember if they had any guests staying with them.

 

[kay74]

Well this is just wholly innacurate.

The Ramseys themselves said the house was completely locked up when they went to bed.

John Ramsey admits he broke the basement window.

There is a lot if discrepancy as to whether the basement window was open or not.

The only sign that someone may have tried to get into that house was pry marks near one of the kitchen doors, which Patsy showed to someone months before the murder.

When they went to bed, ok! R said when they went to the parties they did not have the house completely locked up! He added "they should have".

 

[Rain on my Parade]

When they went to bed, ok! R said when they went to the parties they did not have the house completely locked up! He added "they should have".

Are you sure you aren’t pulling from another infamous change of story?

 

[kay74]

Are you sure you aren’t pulling from another infamous change of story?

No, I watched him say this in an interview. He said it apologeticly.

 

[ACG2x]

Veteran WS member but first time posting in this thread. Obviously know of the case and studied it a little bit when it first happened but I was only a teenager then. Picked it back up after listening to True Crime Garage's podcasts about it. Overall thoughts are:

• JBR will go down as one of the all-time most infamous murder cases in American history. Up there with OJ, the WM3 and Casey Anthony. It has everything you'd look for in a sensational media frenzy-inducing case.
• With any high profile case, there are scores of inaccurate, misreported and outright false 'facts' being presented as the truth. Tough to wade through what's what.
• While it's easy to criticize LE in big cases such as this, the shoe fits here. Multiple errors made early in the investigation, most glaringly not immediately securing the crime scene. Tons of people coming and going throughout the house. While LE didn't know it was a murder scene, it certainly checked every box of a kidnapping and the ransom note said if instructions weren't followed, JBR would be beheaded. Can't possibly believe protocol was to just let anyone wander about. Who knows what was contaminated or - depending on what you believe - modified/staged?
• While there are many circumstantial and anecdotal things that point to JR/PR as having involvement, I haven't seen one piece of credible hard evidence to suggest they were. Multiple behaviors in aftermath were strange and at several points JR outright either misremembers or lies about key timing details but nothing physically links either to the crime. Same w/ BR. Have never really thought any of those three had anything to do with it. It's interesting to explore those paths but every time I do, there are mental leaps or huge logical gaps so Occam's Razor kicks in.

Most likely scenario to me is killer was someone who was known or on the fringe of knowing family. Likely spent time in their house during one of the umpteen parties and gatherings they had over the holidays so knew the layout reasonably well. It's possible the Ramsey's only knew this person as a friend of a friend.

I believe killer entered house through broken window and was in home while Ramsey's were at White's party. This allowed them time to write the note. Don't think it was necessarily someone who worked for Access Graphics, but rather associate or acquaintance of an employee. This would be how they would know the amount of JR's bonus 'through the grapevine'.

While circle of people who should know is small, word about that could easily get out if someone from area of company that knew (Finance, HR, etc.) told someone who told someone who...you get the idea. I believe the killer had an obsession with JBR - most likely sexual in nature. Also believe they saw JBR at one of the Ramsey's gatherings and became obsessed. It wouldn't take much looking to find out many details about the family either as all the Ramsey's were plastered over Boulder.

I think the plan was to take JBR for their own sexual perversion, leave the note to throw LE off and make them think it was someone who worked at Access because of the precise amount of the bonus while they kept JBR.

However, the plan went wrong. I believe killer left the note first and planned everything so all he'd have to do is subdue JBR and get her out the same way he came in. Not wanting to alert the JR/PR/BR, the plan was to knock her out or stun her so she couldn't scream or fight but he underestimated his own strength and struck her so hard it left her with brain damage.

Seeing and sensing this, the killer decides to put JBR out of her misery by using the garrote and hastily leaves, not thinking to pick up the note for a kidnapping that would never occur.

As always, just moo.

 

[kay74]

Veteran WS member but first time posting in this thread. Obviously know of the case and studied it a little bit when it first happened but I was only a teenager then. Picked it back up after listening to True Crime Garage's podcasts about it. Overall thoughts are:

• JBR will go down as one of the all-time most infamous murder cases in American history. Up there with OJ, the WM3 and Casey Anthony. It has everything you'd look for in a sensational media frenzy-inducing case.
• With any high profile case, there are scores of inaccurate, misreported and outright false 'facts' being presented as the truth. Tough to wade through what's what.
• While it's easy to criticize LE in big cases such as this, the shoe fits here. Multiple errors made early in the investigation, most glaringly not immediately securing the crime scene. Tons of people coming and going throughout the house. While LE didn't know it was a murder scene, it certainly checked every box of a kidnapping and the ransom note said if instructions weren't followed, JBR would be beheaded. Can't possibly believe protocol was to just let anyone wander about. Who knows what was contaminated or - depending on what you believe - modified/staged?
• While there are many circumstantial and anecdotal things that point to JR/PR as having involvement, I haven't seen one piece of credible hard evidence to suggest they were. Multiple behaviors in aftermath were strange and at several points JR outright either misremembers or lies about key timing details but nothing physically links either to the crime. Same w/ BR. Have never really thought any of those three had anything to do with it. It's interesting to explore those paths but every time I do, there are mental leaps or huge logical gaps so Occam's Razor kicks in.

Most likely scenario to me is killer was someone who was known or on the fringe of knowing family. Likely spent time in their house during one of the umpteen parties and gatherings they had over the holidays so knew the layout reasonably well. It's possible the Ramsey's only knew this person as a friend of a friend.

I believe killer entered house through broken window and was in home while Ramsey's were at White's party. This allowed them time to write the note. Don't think it was necessarily someone who worked for Access Graphics, but rather associate or acquaintance of an employee. This would be how they would know the amount of JR's bonus 'through the grapevine'.

While circle of people who should know is small, word about that could easily get out if someone from area of company that knew (Finance, HR, etc.) told someone who told someone who...you get the idea. I believe the killer had an obsession with JBR - most likely sexual in nature. Also believe they saw JBR at one of the Ramsey's gatherings and became obsessed. It wouldn't take much looking to find out many details about the family either as all the Ramsey's were plastered over Boulder.

I think the plan was to take JBR for their own sexual perversion, leave the note to throw LE off and make them think it was someone who worked at Access because of the precise amount of the bonus while they kept JBR.

However, the plan went wrong. I believe killer left the note first and planned everything so all he'd have to do is subdue JBR and get her out the same way he came in. Not wanting to alert the JR/PR/BR, the plan was to knock her out or stun her so she couldn't scream or fight but he underestimated his own strength and struck her so hard it left her with brain damage.

Seeing and sensing this, the killer decides to put JBR out of her misery by using the garrote and hastily leaves, not thinking to pick up the note for a kidnapping that would never occur.

As always, just moo.

Yes, You summed it up, perfectly. I totally 100% agree.

 

[Tobiano8th]

you have to suspend reasonable belief to argue IDI or RDI..........

BUT IMO there is way way less evidence of an intruder than RDI. and common sense doesn't suggest an intruder write a ransom note for a non-kidnapping

the ransom note is bizarre but it would be the most incredible piece of evidence in the history of crime if the intruder wrote it in R home with R supplies. i guess someone with grudge might have framed PR. again though, really?? they took patsy's pen and paper home, wrote the note over a a few days. broke in and planted a practice note in the waste basket?

also, it seems virtually impossible that that note is written by a male sex criminal. female accomplice seems like a ridiculous idea.

 

[kay74]

you have to suspend reasonable belief to argue IDI or RDI..........

BUT IMO there is way way less evidence of an intruder than RDI. and common sense doesn't suggest an intruder write a ransom note for a non-kidnapping

the ransom note is bizarre but it would be the most incredible piece of evidence in the history of crime if the intruder wrote it in R home with R supplies. i guess someone with grudge might have framed PR. again though, really?? they took patsy's pen and paper home, wrote the note over a a few days. broke in and planted a practice note in the waste basket?

also, it seems virtually impossible that that note is written by a male sex criminal. female accomplice seems like a ridiculous idea.

Huh? That person was in their home all the while they were at that party. They had plenty enough time to write it! AND that's what they did. So sick of hearing Patsy and John, who loved their little daughter, for her murder, let alone a little 9 year old brother. Give me a burraack……. Ridiculous sinister minds

 

[Tobiano8th]

Huh?............ is there a shred of evidence of your theory?...... a crazed pedophile or a person bent on revenge wrote that note. really?

you seem very very biased to me...... are you an actual stakeholder in this affair? i.e. know the R's or something like that.

i'm open to either IDI and RDI and i said both theories take a big leap faith....... i'm not out to get the R's by any stretch.

 

[kay74]

Hahaha I don't know these people, but I know what I read! LE never investigated! They only focused on these poor parents. IMO it was because they were wealthy and they were jealous.

 

[Tobiano8th]

they lawyered up and were uncooperative as soon as JBR was found dead..... someone wrote a fake kidnapping note on PR pad with PR pen. and put the pen back in its place........ seemed to be zero significance in R minds that kidnappers deadline passed and the K's never phoned back......... how can that not be strongly suggestive?

i do find it baffling to think the R's did all this. and i don't completely buy that JBR was sexually molested beforehand. and if so, could have easily been an older neighbourhood child/teen

but there was little evidence of intruder........ there never was.

 

[ACG2x]

Huh?............ is there a shred of evidence of your theory?...... a crazed pedophile or a person bent on revenge wrote that note. really?

you seem very very biased to me...... are you an actual stakeholder in this affair? i.e. know the R's or something like that.

i'm open to either IDI and RDI and i said both theories take a big leap faith....... i'm not out to get the R's by any stretch.

The note was written to throw LE off imo. Get them chasing multiple different theories and leads which lends to my belief that the original plan was to get JBR out of the home and take her for the perp's sexual perversion. I've never thought the note was written for 'revenge' of any kind.

As for why it was written in the way it was, I think it was because perp was either mentally disturbed/unbalanced or thought they were being oh so clever in making the subtle movie references, signing it SBTC, asking for the amount of JR's bonus and so forth and by doing so, would throw LE in multiple directions away from them. I've always thought the note was also the perp's way of subtly telling the R's "I know you and you know that I know you" kind of deal. I think in the perp's head he was this criminal mastermind and was trying to simultaneously satisfy his obsession with JBR and show everyone how cunning he was.

 

[kay74]

I also think that note was to mock them.

 

[Big Mo]

This is a thread for members to post their theory or theories. It's not a discussion thread.

Here's how to use it--

Create a new post and call it (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory.

If you have more than one theory, then call them (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory (1) and WSPoster's Theory (2) but put them in separate posts.

Remember - do not use this thread for discussion. If you wish to discuss another member's theory, start a new thread and call it (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory (2) - Discussion.

It will be interesting to compare the theories. You should aim to answer such questions as--

(i) Who the perp was
(ii) What the motive was
(iii) How the perp gained entry and how he left
(iv) What caused the head blow
(v) How long the perp was in the house
(vi) Has the perp offended before (or since)
(vii) What pieces of evidence are for real and what are red herrings
(viii) others?

If anyone wishes to post a theory anonymously, send me a PM.

NB -- Do not name any private individuals (i.e. give them a pseudonym).

I have followed this story for a lot of years. I've read books, and watched television shows about it.
I'm convinced BR is responsible for the knock on her head. He may have been sexually abused himself, and in turn abused his sister.
He was a strange kid. PR was a strange woman. She absolutely wrote the ransom letter. I think that was the biggest mistake she made in the cover up. Everything else could point to an intruder, but that letter was nuts.
I also think law enforcement has put way too much weight on the DNA samples. They eliminate anyone as a suspect if they don't match the DNA they have. That could have come from anywhere.
Hurriedly getting BR out of the house was another bad move. If you believe one of your children was kidnapped, you don't send the other one away immediately.
Sadly, the police completely screwed up the investigation. This case will never have a conclusion.

 

[retrometro]

This is my first time commenting on a JBR thread. I'm a fence-sitter who leans slightly in the direction of RDI given the available evidence, but I don't fully rule out the possibility of IDI. Anyway, even though I lean in the direction of RDI, there are two things that have always bothered me about RDI theories:

1. If RDI, why didn't they remove the body from the scene in the middle of the night before calling the police? That would seem like way less trouble to me and less risky than going through a complex staging. December 1996 was a different world than 2020. Very few homes in 1996 had video surveillance systems, the internet was brand new, and people commonly went places without their cell phones. JR or PR could have easily slipped out in the middle of night or early morning with the body in a vehicle, returned to the house, and plausibly claimed they were there the whole time without leaving any evidence that they left.

2. With regard to staging, I know the usual explanation for it is "people don't know how LE investigations work and are terrible at planting evidence," which I concede isn't wrong most of the time. But in an RDI scenario, I'm having trouble putting myself in the Ramseys' shoes and imaginig how anything they did seemed like a good idea at the time. Let's assume for a moment that Patsy wrote the ransom note. Did she really think that there would be no handwriting analysis? That it wouldn't be tested for fingerpints? That the $118,000 ransom would point to someone other than the two of them? Similarly, let's assume for a moment that John and/or Patsy knew the body was in the cellar. Did they really think police wouldn't look there or that the house wouldn't be placed under 24-hour monitoring with a missing/endangered child? I realize it's possible that they were emotionally distressed and just plain not thinking clearly, but I would think they would have made even more slip-ups to investigators if that were the case.

Anyway, I'd appreciate reactions to the above, even if it's to tell me why I'm wrong.

 

[David Rogers]

Parents would not like to leave there child’s body outside where animals and bugs could get to it. When the adrenaline starts pumping it affects the way you think. I pulled a guy out of a burning car and didn’t realize for 20 minutes how bad my hand was burned. Can you imagine what if would be like to stage a crime for your dead child?

 

[icedtea4me]

Hahaha I don't know these people, but I know what I read! LE never investigated! They only focused on these poor parents. IMO it was because they were wealthy and they were jealous.

Are you saying that LE never investigated John Brewer Eustace, yes or no?

 

[kay74]

Are you saying that LE never investigated John Brewer Eustace, yes or no?

I don't know who this is! All I know is her family certainly didn't kill her. Too absurd to even second guess. This should have been investigated Immediately and it wasn't.