MN - George Floyd, 46, unarmed, killed in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 *arrests* #2

[mickey2942]

Accidental? No. I saw the video. Case closed for me. My brother-in-law is a corrections officer, and he said they are told during training in no uncertain terms to NEVER put pressure on a prisoner's neck because it could kill him/her. Certainly police officers have a lot more training so know this too.

I don't know anyone who could seriously justify or support a knee on neck choke hold by LEO for that length of time. If there is a trial, it would be interesting to watch the defense.

 

[Gardenista]

I don't know anyone who could seriously justify or support a knee on neck choke hold by LEO for that length of time. If there is a trial, it would be interesting to watch the defense.

Agree. If offered, I think he will take a plea.

 

[SleuthBee]

The supervision of this officer should also be reviewed, if 18 separate complaints were dismissed previously, that is a problem.

BBM & Clipped for clarity
I believe the solution to the problem lies within that review.

IMO, Derrick Chauvin didn't just wake up that day and decide to kill a man in custody. 18 formal complaints averages to almost one per year of duty. This begs the question, how many were informal or never made at all?

Chauvin's actions were unchallenged by fellow officers and blatantly disregarded by the medical examiner. Chauvin and Thao were both aware of witnesses and of being video recorded, yet they didn't change their behavior (??).

IMOO, the problem appears to be systemic. And now the riots are deterring from that investigation.

This is the first time I can recall law enforcement officers and agencies publicly and vociferously condemning a fellow officer's actions so quickly after seeing evidence that an egregious "wrong" has been committed.

IMO, For so long, it's been SOP to keep the cop on the payroll, give him a paid leave or assignment to desk duty while the Union reps work their magic behind the scenes. Then, on the slim chance a "badged killer" is charged, the PR machine gets launched, the trial seems to take forever to get underway, and the case is prosecuted by a person who works closely with that same law enforcement agency on a daily basis. IMO

Chauvin must be absolutely flabbergasted at the turn of events. Indeed, that smirk on his face as he jams that knee into Floyd's carotid artery makes me think he was expecting that his murderous misuse of power would be dealt with in that same time-honored way.

If he gets remembered for anything, if there's any sort of "good" that can come from his homicidal actions, I hope he becomes some sort of symbol of law enforcement's willingness to step over that thin blue line and recognize a horrible miscarriage of "service" when they encounter it.
IMO

BBM
His smirk was as chilling as his reach for the pepper spray in response to onlookers agonizing over his actions.

 

[mickey2942]

Agree. If offered, I think he will take a plea.

The only "plea" this crowd wants, is the death penalty.

What would be appropriate? Anything less than 10 years, riots will happen. Maybe even less than 20.

 

[Gardenista]

The only "plea" this crowd wants, is the death penalty.

What would be appropriate? Anything less than 10 years, riots will happen. Maybe even less than 20.

If left as is, I think the sentence is 25 years. Maybe he would take 20, but I'm not sure a deal would even be offered. I wish he would just man up, plead guilty, take the 25 and be done with it.

 

[kaen]

The only "plea" this crowd wants, is the death penalty.

What would be appropriate? Anything less than 10 years, riots will happen. Maybe even less than 20.

I don't want the DP. I am happy with LWOP. This was not a young, inexperienced cop who panicked. This was not a one on one incident where there was a struggle for a gun. This was not a person who had any ability to harm him or them. He was handcuffed on the ground in a prone position.

There can be no justification for his actions. He deliberately kneed him in the neck until he died. No emotion. No care. I hope he never has another day of freedom in his life. He shouldn't be even eligible for less than 20 for what he did.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

In another article posted here a few days ago, it stated that the mayor banned the maneuver in April 2019. A member of local police spoke out publicly against the ban, arguing that it took away their control. Jmo

How does the chain of command operate in Minneapolis? Does anyone know? I assume the mayor is elected. Is that correct? And where does it go from there? Is the police chief elected or assigned? Does the chief answer to the mayor? So if this wasn't messy enough from a legal standpoint, it seems we now have a labor dispute issue offer reasonable and effective tactics?? I know some unions hold a great deal of power. If I'm understanding correctly, the mayor spoke out in 2019 against any type of neck compression. Did that apply to future training policies or boots on the ground policy too? I'm trying to understand how the training is still online and hasn't been revised since 2012, and includes neck compression under certain circumstances.

 

[mickey2942]

Exactly @SleuthBee if they don't review the previous 18 incidents with Officer Chauvin, and how Officer Chauvin continued to maintain employment, this could happen again.

Those "incidents"? What were they? Were they always involved with a black person? What was the resolution? Why? Who dismissed these incidents?

Because Officer Chauvin got away with situations previously, he obviously escalated his behavior. He thought he could do anything and get away with everything.

How many police officers in Minneapolis have this same attitude?

 

[SleuthBee]

I don't want the DP. I am happy with LWOP. This was not a young, inexperienced cop who panicked. This was not a one on one incident where there was a struggle for a gun. This was not a person who had any ability to harm him or them. He was handcuffed on the ground in a prone position.

There can be no justification for his actions. He deliberately kneed him in the neck until he died. No emotion. No care. I hope he never has another day of freedom in his life. He shouldn't be even eligible for less than 20 for what he did.

Chauvin is a man who is safer inside prison than out. And for him, prison isn't safe at all. He is in a mell of hess.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I don't want the DP. I am happy with LWOP. This was not a young, inexperienced cop who panicked. This was not a one on one incident where there was a struggle for a gun. This was not a person who had any ability to harm him or them. He was handcuffed on the ground in a prone position.

There can be no justification for his actions. He deliberately kneed him in the neck until he died. No emotion. No care. I hope he never has another day of freedom in his life. He shouldn't be even eligible for less than 20 for what he did.

On the other hand, Mr. Floyd was not a young kid either. When he walked in with the couple, and a member of that couple tried to pay with a counterfeit bill, most would be embarrassed. They'd get the heck out of there. The fact that he went back in shortly after and tried to pay with (allegedly) a counterfeit bill too, makes me wonder about his mental state at the time. How clearly was he thinking?

I ask anyone who is claustrophobic or prone to anxiety, what are the chances that you'd ingest meth or any substance that is known to drive paranoia and anxiety? No, he didn't deserve to die for using meth, fentanyl, or for using counterfeit money. However, I agree with Otto in that ALL available video should be released to the public, unredacted, uncut, unedited. I also agree with Otto that criminal activity and resisting arrest logically increase the chances of a negative outcome.

In the best of situations, LE would be trained on substance use, recognizing mental health concerns, and an entire host of topics that would help them better protect and serve. And policies on police procedure would be obvious, clear, current, and updated frequently.

It seems to me that there were many failures by multiple people along the way to stop this outcome. If I may speak plainly, I think what some people want to say is that on some level, Mr. Floyd also failed himself. No, he didn't deserve to die for criminal activity. But his choices are part of the equation. Had he not engaged in resisting arrest, he'd be alive today, just as he would be if Chauvin hadn't held him down with his knee. Both of those facts deserve discussion. Unfortunately, those who are looting and many on this thread seem to be focusing on only 1 of them. AMOO

 

[kaen]

Chauvin is a man who is safer inside prison than out. And for him, prison isn't safe at all. He is in a mell of hess.

I have the feeling that if he has a moment of freedom (made bail or something) that he would wind up committing suicide. He has lost his family (if his marriage was good prior to killing Mr. Floyd, then the shock of losing it all must be very painful). He has lost his job. He has lost any assets --things he built. There is no job anyone would hire him for. If he watched that video and saw himself, I would think he realizes there is no path to anywhere for him.

But, I agree that there is no safe place for him.

 

[nightowl1975]

I don't know anyone who could seriously justify or support a knee on neck choke hold by LEO for that length of time. If there is a trial, it would be interesting to watch the defense.

From the moment one of the officers said he couldn’t feel a pulse until EMS arrived and the accused finally removed his knee from Mr. Floyd’s neck was 2 minutes 53 seconds.

There will be absolutely zero way to explain the use of lethal force after the suspect has no palpable pulse, especially not for nearly three additional minutes.

 

[SleuthBee]

How does the chain of command operate in Minneapolis? Does anyone know? I assume the mayor is elected. Is that correct? And where does it go from there? Is the police chief elected or assigned? Does the chief answer to the mayor? So if this wasn't messy enough from a legal standpoint, it seems we now have a labor dispute issue offer reasonable and effective tactics?? I know some unions hold a great deal of power. If I'm understanding correctly, the mayor spoke out in 2019 against any type of neck compression. Did that apply to future training policies or boots on the ground policy too? I'm trying to understand how the training is still online and hasn't been revised since 2012, and includes neck compression under certain circumstances.

Right now, that chain is beginning to rattle then it will be every man for himself.

 

[SouthAussie]

How does the chain of command operate in Minneapolis? Does anyone know? I assume the mayor is elected. Is that correct? And where does it go from there? Is the police chief elected or assigned? Does the chief answer to the mayor? So if this wasn't messy enough from a legal standpoint, it seems we now have a labor dispute issue offer reasonable and effective tactics?? I know some unions hold a great deal of power. If I'm understanding correctly, the mayor spoke out in 2019 against any type of neck compression. Did that apply to future training policies or boots on the ground policy too? I'm trying to understand how the training is still online and hasn't been revised since 2012, and includes neck compression under certain circumstances.

From what I can see, the mayor is elected by the people, the police chief can be nominated by the mayor and be instated with full city council approval. The mayor speaks of the police chief working in partnership with him.


Today, Arradondo is the city’s police chief, a title the 29-year department veteran will likely hold for the next three years after Frey announced his reappointment on Thursday. His nomination still needs full City Council approval.

At an MPD promotions ceremony later in the afternoon, Frey lauded not only Arradondo but also the strong working bond they share. “We could not ask for better leadership and I could not ask for a better partner in the mayor’s office,” he told the audience.
https://www.startribune.com/frey-formally-puts-forward-arradondo-for-police-chief-job/499343161/

 

[iluvmua]

Even if Mr. Floyd had no drugs in his system, I still believe that the outcome would be the same.

This LE Officer simply didn't care.

Jmo

 

[Doghairrules]

BBM
His smirk was as chilling as his reach for the pepper spray in response to onlookers agonizing over his actions.

And let’s not forget the hands in his pockets like it’s casual Friday and he’s wearing chinos. Sigh.

 

[kaen]

On the other hand, Mr. Floyd was not a young kid either. When he walked in with the couple, and a member of that couple tried to pay with a counterfeit bill, most would be embarrassed. They'd get the heck out of there. The fact that he went back in shortly after and tried to pay with (allegedly) a counterfeit bill too, makes me wonder about his mental state at the time. How clearly was he thinking?

I ask anyone who is claustrophobic or prone to anxiety, what are the chances that you'd ingest meth or any substance that is known to drive paranoia and anxiety? No, he didn't deserve to die for using meth, fentanyl, or for using counterfeit money. However, I agree with Otto in that ALL available video should be released to the public, unredacted, uncut, unedited. I also agree with Otto that criminal activity and resisting arrest logically increase the chances of a negative outcome.

In the best of situations, LE would be trained on substance use, recognizing mental health concerns, and an entire host of topics that would help them better protect and serve. And policies on police procedure would be obvious, clear, current, and updated frequently.

It seems to me that there were many failures by multiple people along the way to stop this outcome. If I may speak plainly, I think what some people want to say is that on some level, Mr. Floyd also failed himself. No, he didn't deserve to die for criminal activity. But his choices are part of the equation. Had he not engaged in resisting arrest, he'd be alive today, just as he would be if Chauvin hadn't held him down with his knee. Both of those facts deserve discussion. Unfortunately, those who are looting and many on this thread seem to be focusing on only 1 of them. AMOO

The autopsy said fentanyl in the system and evidence of recent meth use, IIRC. Fentanyl's effects include:

extreme happiness
drowsiness
nausea
confusion
constipation
sedation
problems breathing
unconsciousness.

This is not the same as meth.

With all due respect, we have seen the video from when the two young ones arrive with the officer pulling his gun at the window of Mr. Floyd and then take him out of the car and handcuff him (report states he actively resisted). The report says he became compliant and was seated against the wall (in thread 1). In the report,Lane asked him if he was on anything but the answer is not noted there. The report says that at 8:14 while walking to the SUV he stiffened, fell to the ground and reported being claustrophobic. The other two arrived and struggled to get him in the car, he fell down and said he wasn't getting in the car. We saw the video of him in/out/possibly in the SUV. The killer pulled him out of the car at 8:19 according to the document. He went to the ground prone and handcuffed and never got up again. I am assuming that the narrative of the arrest warrant is from cameras and body cameras as the first two activated their cameras; accurately describing the key movements of all.


We haven't seen the body cams from inside the SUV and, the exit before he fell to the ground. Regardless, from the time he was at his vehicle he was handcuffed-- or in custody--- he is defenseless at this point. Can he kick and go stiff as a board? Yes. But he did not by any account. The arrest documents do not say that he did anything besides fall to the ground and mildly resist. In fact his preferred position in this whole account is to fall to the ground. He reports claustrophobia. He is altered enough to be asked by the first officers.

Increased risk? Yes. I think that the cascade here was not begun by Mr. Floyd despite his altered state and mild resistance. The cascade is begun when in the vehicle and the killer ran around to other side and pulled him out. It was at this point that the killer decided he was going to dominate him and prove he was boss. He responded to no pleas of Mr. Floyd or anyone in the crowd. He dismissed his fellow killers thought about turning him on his side as his fellow killer thought he might be altered and need it. He dismissed taking any action after he knew of the "no pulse" finding. Mr. Floyd did not have a chance. The fourth one, the killer who had a 25k settlement paid for his excessive use of force--watched and observed the whole thing, he put his hand on his pepper spray as the crowd begged him to do something. He didn't want another excessive force charge but wasn't going to step up either. It is good that he will probably go to jail, IMO.

 

[LadyL]

dbm wrong thread

 

[JDough]

Exactly @SleuthBee if they don't review the previous 18 incidents with Officer Chauvin, and how Officer Chauvin continued to maintain employment, this could happen again.

Those "incidents"? What were they? Were they always involved with a black person? What was the resolution? Why? Who dismissed these incidents?

Because Officer Chauvin got away with situations previously, he obviously escalated his behavior. He thought he could do anything and get away with everything.

How many police officers in Minneapolis have this same attitude?

I completely agree with you, @mickey2942. Unfortunately, Officer Chauvin thought his badge was a license to kill.

I am chilled to the bone every time I see his face in the video(s). Never have I looked into the eyes of a man with such evil superiority, daring the onlookers to stop him. He knew exactly what he was doing. He heard the pleas from Mr. Floyd- and yet he continued, without a care in the world.

I would be curious to know how many other officers in the department have marks on their records for unnecessary force? Clearly; if the mayor forbids officers not to place their knees on a subject's back or neck- there is a reason for it. I continue to be completely astounded that not one of the officers on scene made any attempt to end the situation before it was too late.

 

[MsBetsy]

How does the chain of command operate in Minneapolis? Does anyone know? I assume the mayor is elected. Is that correct? And where does it go from there? Is the police chief elected or assigned? Does the chief answer to the mayor? So if this wasn't messy enough from a legal standpoint, it seems we now have a labor dispute issue offer reasonable and effective tactics?? I know some unions hold a great deal of power. If I'm understanding correctly, the mayor spoke out in 2019 against any type of neck compression. Did that apply to future training policies or boots on the ground policy too? I'm trying to understand how the training is still online and hasn't been revised since 2012, and includes neck compression under certain circumstances.

Yes, the mayor is elected and usually has authority over the Police Department. The position of Police Chief is usually assigned by the mayor. I believe the City Council is also involved in these decisions. At least that's how it works in most cities.

From what I could tell, excessive force can be used when necessary, when a suspect is a danger to themselves or others. The neck compressions were meant to be used only for the amount of time it takes to restrain a suspect until they are handcuffed, as far as I can tell. Then the suspect is rolled on their side, or in an upright or sitting position.

It's not really clear to me whether every PD is banned from using that maneuver. It should be, unless used very briefly to restrain someone who is very aggressive or a direct threat to an officer or others.