Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #42

[carbuff]

Curious at your idea. Why would he threaten Chad? For lack of payment?

Because he seems to have threatened all of LV's husbands at one time or another, and Chad was next on the list?

 

[RickshawFan]

BBM for focus


You're really going to let Chad off that easy? Lori definitely had some fringe beliefs and IMO was unhinged when they met, but everything we've read about so far suggests that it was Chad who told HER about what was going to happen and when. That she trusted his revelations because hers just weren't as good or reliable. We have this from the MG interview with EIN.

Chad had power over her and knew it, regardless of what he believed himself. She would not have acted independently without seeking his blessing, or some pendulum revelation confirming what she was supposed to do. Therefore to me it's unlikely he didn't give the final green light on both murders. All JMO of course.

I guess I have a different approach to this whole thing.
I don't believe in any of this stuff, which makes me assume the Zombie Gang don't believe any of it either. Which makes me opine that the whole zombie/end of days apparatus was just a convenient story to legitimize getting what they wanted in life. And doing that would involve killing a bunch of people. And then former lives and portals and a whole bunch of other motifs were thrown on top like embellishments, not essentials.
Maybe the problem is in my assumption. Maybe my own beliefs have given me a blind spot because I just can't imagine folks actually believing this stuff. But, yep, I see it all as a self-aggrandizing babble used to legitimize murder. A Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh type do-over. (The Rajneeshees poisoned an Oregon town with salmonella—first terrorist attack on US soil—as revenge for opposition to their plan.)
Mods, if I'm being offensive, please remove my post. But I'm really just trying to understand my own approach to this case, and it's based on not being able to believe any of this myself. I'm really fascinated that some folks come at this case from the exact opposite direction and arrive at the idea that a cluster of folks could so ardently believe in zombies etc. that they'd murder for their beliefs. I'm not saying they're wrong, just that I can't go there.
Is it possible the Zombie Gang were in both of those spaces simultaneously? Believing but at the same time using their beliefs cynically to get what they want?
We shall see how it turns out!

 

[Redvines86]

What patterns did you see, Redvines?

Good question. I always thought Chad was very religious for a high school kid. But it did allow him to boss us around kind of, because we thought he was being religious, if that makes sense. What he wrote in my yearbook was super weird, but he was basically giving me advice and telling me who I should hang out with during the summer and who I shouldn't hang out with. That's weird for a high school boy to say to a high school girl. I look back at things I thought were his confidence, and I now see as arrogance. It's true, he was liked more by the girls than the guys, for what that's worth. I'll think of other things I noticed. MOO I do think now looking back on it that religion was something to give him power over others, and I don't believe that he believed any of it, even the LDS stuff when he was young. MOO I do believe Chad is a master at wearing a mask, I think that's what made it so hard for people to see the real him, friends and family, he is a master mask wearer. MOO

 

[fuzzybutter]

I’m going to give Melanie the benefit of the doubt. If my 47 year old best friend was having an affair with a married man and talking about her kids being zombies, I’d chalk it up to hormones and a midlife crisis. In no way would I think that she would harm her own children! So therefore, it would never cross my mind to call CPS. I think Melanie is truly a victim, is dealing with the loss of two close friends and the horrific discovery that they are murderers - plus the unimaginable guilt that she was right there when a murder happened. (“If only I’d cuddled JJ and calmed him down that night...”) But Melanie has helped investigators (and us) to find answers, unlike certain nieces. Can you imagine how you’d feel if this were your best friend? Holy cow! It would mess with most of our heads, and we likely wouldn’t respond “perfectly” as we wrapped our minds around it all - in front of the media and millions of people, no less. Same with the Daybell kids. They’re freaked out and not responding “perfectly,” and I think that’s perfectly understandable. Heidi Broussard had no clue her best friend would murder her to steal her baby, for example. Who thinks of stuff like this? Most of us are extremely trusting of our close friends (and parents). So I’m giving Melanie a pass. But not Melani. MOO

Thank you for this! You have articulated my feelings about MG. I have been surprised by the vitriol that I have heard about her, both here and off this board. She strikes me as someone who is not super bright and is searching for structure for her life. For some reason mainstream LDS was not meeting her needs. So she turned to a loopy fringe group and made some friends. As kudzu points out above, initially,she had no reason to think anybody was a murderer.

Then there is the 11 days she waited to call the police that upsets many people. The kids were already dead. Even if she called the police right after Chad’s call, she would not have saved them. Once she got her head around what Chad and Lori were up to, she went to the police and has been working with them ever since. I may be proven wrong, but I don’t think she has secret knowledge that she is withholding from the police. She is shocked and confused and trying to make sense out of a horrific situation.

 

[longtimereader]

You are VERY forgiving of Chad the Magnificent.

Nothing about him gives me any reason to cast him as an innocent victim of circumstances pulled into the nefarious world he was so very innocent in. He is just a man who hangs out with serial killers, and men who brag about their capacity for violence, desires a firey end to the world so he can rule over it,who cheats on his wife, watches her die painfully probably then tells people it is peaceful, sexually assaults his friends then threatens them about it,tells people he is an apostle, prophet and god. And lets his children live meters from the dismembered body of a child and the rotting body of another for cover, and is overjoyed by the violent death of his extramarital lover.
edit to add: leeched off his wife for his entire life.

Nothing about this suggests to me a man who deserv

Because he seems to have threatened all of LV's husbands at one time or another, and Chad was next on the list?

Oh, gotcha. Good point. Maybe when his sister gets annoyed with them? I do recall the woman that saw them on the shuttle in HI said they had tension between them.

 

[longtimereader]

Thank you for this! You have articulated my feelings about MG. I have been surprised by the vitriol that I have heard about her, both here and off this board. She strikes me as someone who is not super bright and is searching for structure for her life. For some reason mainstream LDS was not meeting her needs. So she turned to a loopy fringe group and made some friends. As kudzu points out above, initially,she had no reason to think anybody was a murderer.

Then there is the 11 days she waited to call the police that upsets many people. The kids were already dead. Even if she called the police right after Chad’s call, she would not have saved them. Once she got her head around what Chad and Lori were up to, she went to the police and has been working with them ever since. I may be proven wrong, but I don’t think she has secret knowledge that she is withholding from the police. She is shocked and confused and trying to make sense out of a horrific situation.

I just want to point out that they only knew each other 2 years, right? I think of bf's as life long or at least many many years long relationships. She wasn't even close enough to her to ask difficult questions. I think she had been love bombed and swept up in Lori's web just like the others.

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, that might be the reason for inclusion in the probable cause. That TR was not visible, or getting out at at a meal stop.

Great idea that TR might not have been visible...
The obvious location for a security camera was the West Yellowstone entrance to the Park. But that might only give a license plate.
I think we're going to see that Buckeroo ping developed later in the case.

 

[Grixote]

Thank you for this! You have articulated my feelings about MG. I have been surprised by the vitriol that I have heard about her, both here and off this board. She strikes me as someone who is not super bright and is searching for structure for her life. For some reason mainstream LDS was not meeting her needs. So she turned to a loopy fringe group and made some friends. As kudzu points out above, initially,she had no reason to think anybody was a murderer.

Then there is the 11 days she waited to call the police that upsets many people. The kids were already dead. Even if she called the police right after Chad’s call, she would not have saved them. Once she got her head around what Chad and Lori were up to, she went to the police and has been working with them ever since. I may be proven wrong, but I don’t think she has secret knowledge that she is withholding from the police. She is shocked and confused and trying to make sense out of a horrific situation.

I have no ill will for MG either. But her inaction had deadly consequences.

Because she knew that Chad & Lori’s zombies got murdered the moment she learned of Charles’ murder, and she should’ve spoken up in July. She also knew that, to C&L, murdering zombies was kind of a twisted favor to the person murdered. So the future murders were all but inevitable after Charles’.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

 

[jjenny]

Because he seems to have threatened all of LV's husbands at one time or another, and Chad was next on the list?

Alex only threatened the husbands when Lori was no longer happy with the husbands. There was no problem between her and Chad while Alex was still alive.

 

[JolietJake]

Reading all the theories and looking at the timeline in the affidavit, I think AC murdered Tylee in the wee hours of the night while he was at Lori's apartment. AC may have dismembered the body that night to make it easier to transport into his truck, undetected late at night, and then deliver the body parts for disposal and burning at Chad's place the morning after.

I believe there is tons of evidence not yet disclosed, perhaps from forensic searches in AC's apartment, Chad's barn, AC's truck, Lori's apartment, and other places.

One thing I learned by following the Dr. Teresa Sievers case here on WS was how many videos were found of the murderers by GPS tracking of cell phones and a GPS unit in a rental car in the Sievers case. The murderers were tracked from Missouri and all the way to Dr Sievers house in Florida and back to MO with surveillance videos from a Walmart, various gas stations, etc. They were even able to put together burner phone communications.

The affidavit was at minimum an explanation of CD's arrest. LE and especially the FBI won't leave any stone unturned. This will be interesting.

 

[The First Article]

Idaho 511 Travel Information

Just looking for road reports from Rexburg to West Yellowstone, but didn't find any back dated. Did find where the cameras on the route are.

Idaho transportation's twitter: Just in case it turns out to be useful for people's routes. https://twitter.com/IdahoITD

Highway 20 Status

The bridge was under construction on this route. Usually this is alternating lanes.

There's your extra time possibly - don't know if the roads there get fully reopened!

 

[Spartygirl]

Charles was "supposed to" die in a car crash. That in itself was bizarre enough. Lori was reportedly very frustrated when it didn't happen. She called Alex to stay over and the next day Charles was killed. MG, her best friend only learned about it four days later, but she had known all along that Lori talked about him dying and that he was afraid for his life. I would believe in Charles' accidental death no more than I would believe that Tammy died of natural causes after months of discussion about her dying.

BBM
I am glad you brought this up about LVD asking AxC to stay over the night before CV was murdered.
I was re-watching a bit of the Mommy dearest and Sis show and LVD's sister said that she is the one who asked AxC to go over and stay, because, she felt worried and concerned that CV was going to be there the next morning so she told AxC to go there
However, other reports say that LVD asked AxC to be there with her.
I just feel this is important if JC was lying and it wasn't her but that it was LVD as to me shows LVD and AxC planning on killing CV that next morning as planned. JMO
Just me being bothered about this scenario tonight.

 

[KonaHonu]

What would be those good reasons be? Alex clearly wasn't the brains behind this whole operation. I haven't seen anything to suggest Alex did things unless Lori wanted him to do those things. As long as Chad and Lori were lovey dovey (and it would certainly appear they were while Alex was still alive) I fail to see why Chad would be afraid of Alex.

Chad might have been afraid Alex would kill him since Chad knew Alex had killed the kids. Remember Alex had just killed Tylee likely for that very reason! Clearly Chad should have called the police immediately. Chad dug his own hole, no pun intended.

 

[jjenny]

I heard three differing stories on why Alex went to stay with Lori the night before Charles came to pick up JJ.
Alex himself claimed he stayed over because he was going to do fun things with Lori that day.
Lori claimed she asked Alex to come over because she was concerned about Charles coming to pick up JJ and causing trouble.
Then of course Lori's sister in the interview claimed that she (sister) asked Alex to go over to Lori's because she (sister) was concerned about Charles causing trouble, and Alex didn't even want to do initially.

 

[fuzzybutter]

I have no ill will for MG either. But her inaction had deadly consequences.

Because she knew that Chad & Lori’s zombies got murdered the moment she learned of Charles’ murder, and she should’ve spoken up in July. She also knew that, to C&L, murdering zombies was kind of a twisted favor to the person murdered. So the future murders were all but inevitable after Charles’.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

I would say the inaction of the Chandler (or is it Gilbert, I cant remember?)Police Dept had deadly consequences. If she went to police and explained the Zombie theory, they would think she was a whack job. These are the same officers who believed Alex with a tiny cut on his head and laughing joking Lori about the self defense theory.
No one else was dead, why wouldn’t she believe the self defense story? In hindsight it seems obvious, but not at the time.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Good question. I always thought Chad was very religious for a high school kid. But it did allow him to boss us around kind of, because we thought he was being religious, if that makes sense. What he wrote in my yearbook was super weird, but he was basically giving me advice and telling me who I should hang out with during the summer and who I shouldn't hang out with. That's weird for a high school boy to say to a high school girl. I look back at things I thought were his confidence, and I now see as arrogance. It's true, he was liked more by the girls than the guys, for what that's worth. I'll think of other things I noticed. MOO I do think now looking back on it that religion was something to give him power over others, and I don't believe that he believed any of it, even the LDS stuff when he was young. MOO I do believe Chad is a master at wearing a mask, I think that's what made it so hard for people to see the real him, friends and family, he is a master mask wearer. MOO

Makes you wonder what was going on in that home for years and how maybe what would be called “unrighteous dominion” over Tammy and the kids. MOO

 

[FindingJoLee]

Good question. I always thought Chad was very religious for a high school kid. But it did allow him to boss us around kind of, because we thought he was being religious, if that makes sense. What he wrote in my yearbook was super weird, but he was basically giving me advice and telling me who I should hang out with during the summer and who I shouldn't hang out with. That's weird for a high school boy to say to a high school girl. I look back at things I thought were his confidence, and I now see as arrogance. It's true, he was liked more by the girls than the guys, for what that's worth. I'll think of other things I noticed. MOO I do think now looking back on it that religion was something to give him power over others, and I don't believe that he believed any of it, even the LDS stuff when he was young. MOO I do believe Chad is a master at wearing a mask, I think that's what made it so hard for people to see the real him, friends and family, he is a master mask wearer. MOO

That is soooo weird. I had a boyfriend at BYU who told me "I don't really like your friends, they're a bad influence." I'm not very swayed by peer pressure and was pretty capable of doing my thing (including breaking up with a control freak who didn't realize he was one of my friends?) He's a politician now and he's always introducing the most ridiculously inane, controlling legislation.

Your insight on Chad is SUPER interesting. And I bet it's SUPER accurate. I would have never predicted Lori to become a serial killer, and I still am really struggling to wrap my head around her involvement in murdering her children.....

BTW, I'm also formulating some thoughts about Lori being a chameleon, something I didn't realize until very recently.

 

[KonaHonu]

Good question. I always thought Chad was very religious for a high school kid. But it did allow him to boss us around kind of, because we thought he was being religious, if that makes sense. What he wrote in my yearbook was super weird, but he was basically giving me advice and telling me who I should hang out with during the summer and who I shouldn't hang out with. That's weird for a high school boy to say to a high school girl. I look back at things I thought were his confidence, and I now see as arrogance. It's true, he was liked more by the girls than the guys, for what that's worth. I'll think of other things I noticed. MOO I do think now looking back on it that religion was something to give him power over others, and I don't believe that he believed any of it, even the LDS stuff when he was young. MOO I do believe Chad is a master at wearing a mask, I think that's what made it so hard for people to see the real him, friends and family, he is a master mask wearer. MOO

There is also a repeating theme of him using other peoples' beliefs to manipulate them. It's possible he had not developed those skills yet in High School. He did it with Tammy (Farmville, etc.) and with Lori (dark/light crap).

 

[fuzzybutter]

I just want to point out that they only knew each other 2 years, right? I think of bf's as life long or at least many many years long relationships. She wasn't even close enough to her to ask difficult questions. I think she had been love bombed and swept up in Lori's web just like the others.

I agree, Lori played her. But I do think MG really felt close to both Lori and Chad. Moo, I don’t think MG has lots of close friends/family.

 

[carbuff]

Everybody's got their gut feelings that don't necessarily have evidence to support it--my gut feeling is that Tylee was alive when she went to CD's, and was killed there later. Probably not by AC.