Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #42

[Forever Young]

Thank you for this! You have articulated my feelings about MG. I have been surprised by the vitriol that I have heard about her, both here and off this board. She strikes me as someone who is not super bright and is searching for structure for her life. For some reason mainstream LDS was not meeting her needs. So she turned to a loopy fringe group and made some friends. As kudzu points out above, initially,she had no reason to think anybody was a murderer.

Then there is the 11 days she waited to call the police that upsets many people. The kids were already dead. Even if she called the police right after Chad’s call, she would not have saved them. Once she got her head around what Chad and Lori were up to, she went to the police and has been working with them ever since. I may be proven wrong, but I don’t think she has secret knowledge that she is withholding from the police. She is shocked and confused and trying to make sense out of a horrific situation.

I have been waiting to bring this up, about the 11 days....According to the timeline, MG did speak with the police in Gilbert AZ on November 26, the same day she was asked by LV and CD to say that JJ was with her in AZ.

She apparently did not tell them that she was asked to lie, but did report that she did not have JJ.

On December 6, she called Rexburg police to report that she had been asked to lie.

I think it is a little misleading to say that MG did not call the police back for 11 days, when she did indeed speak to the Gilbert PD the very same day, according to the timeline.

26 Nov 2019 – After RPD leave, Lori and Chad each contact their friend MG separately; Both Lori and Chad ask MG to tell police that she has JJ even though JJ is not with her. MG says she declined the requests of Chad and Lori and she did not lie to the police on their behalf (Affidavit of Probable Cause Doc; East Idaho News)

26 Nov 2019, about 9:30 pm - Rexburg PD have not heard from MG so they call Gilbert PD. LE in Arizona go to MG’s home but she is not there. GPD reaches MG by phone; She tells them JJ has not been there for several months. (Affidavit of Probable Cause Doc; East Idaho News)

and then....

6 Dec 2019 - RPD is contacted by Melanie Gibb. MG says that both Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow called MG on Nov 26, 2019, at separate times and asked her to tell police that she had JJ even though JJ was not with her. “Melanie informed RPD that she declined Chad’s and Lori’s requests.”

ID - Joshua Vallow & Tylee Ryan, Rexburg, Sept 2019 TIMELINE ONLY - *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[The First Article]

Calendar

What's happening in Rexburg during September 2019. Just to see what they could have been doing instead now I guess.

Actually I was looking for things that might effect their movements, traffic, tourist levels, events like marathons or conferences, where people might be gathered and so not near the sites of interest....

 

[FindingJoLee]

I seriously dread the day when I learn the details about how Tylee died (and JJ of course.) So far I have been telling myself that she died in a way that didn't cause her to suffer or to be afraid. I know how unlikely that is....just...please, I don't want that to be something that happened to her. I just can't bear for these children to have been tortured, physically or psychologically.

 

[fuzzybutter]

I am sitting here replaying what I would say to MG if I had just two minutes of her time. I feel as though she is playing victim in order to justify her willing participation in what has now turned into four murders. I am not saying she murdered anyone but I feel in my heart she could have prevented the deaths of TR and JV. If you are connected with God in any way, you understand that God would never want you to harm someone in his name or for him. There is also something called gut instinct. She knew this was wrong but I think she allowed herself to be excited and entertained by the drama of it. A real friend would say, ‘honey, your child is precious and this is all untrue, false information you are buying into’. I would never EVER be comfortable with having my friend say something that bizarre about about their own children. Who would?? It makes no sense!! Just like you would not be comfortable seeing your friend beat their child, you would do anything to stop it. I think MG mentioned she was teaching, teachers are mandatory reporters!! What Lori said about her child is obvious signs of mental instability which often leads to child abuse. I love and trust my best friend more than anything but if she started revealing the things LV revealed to MG, I would call her parents or church advisors or DHS and investigate what is really going on in her mind. Melanie, to me is a fraud! Stop acting like a victim, you foolish woman. You know what you could have done and everyone else knows too. The fact that she is getting national exposure on Dateline is shameful. She is hoping this appearance will ease her guilt and make others feel sorry for her but I hope she is wrong and everyone wonders why she didn’t do the right thing. After the call with Chad I would have called the police immediately!! Why didn’t she?! All of this is of course MOO, but I just had to get it off my chest. I hope she is haunted by the fact she could have saved those kids. She may be a good witness for the prosecution but other than that she should not get a drop of sympathy from ANYONE!!

I am not sure how she could have saved the kids. She lived 3 states away. The worst she saw/heard was Lori calling them zombies. CPS (who is not well versed in Chad Daybell zombie theory) would either ignore or try to locate Lori, who is a master of avoiding regulatory appointments. I don’t remember other actual evidence MG had And as I mentioned earlier, by the time she figured it out, right after Chad’s call they were already dead.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I'm confused about this debate. I know this is quite obvious, but it's not illegal to believe in zombies. Are you convinced there were people, other than the trio, who were actually physically involved in killing and burying the children? Or is this a 'who knew what when' kind of argument. Which, IMO, no one will ever know, because we can't actually read people's minds, plus, it's not actually a crime to have suspicions or vague ideas that something might have happened, but not to go to police.

People are punished and go to jail for their actions, not their thoughts. So far, anyway. I happen to think that's a good thing.

If you follow up the quote I was responding to, you will see I was of the belief that we don’t know if MG gave up the “cult” or not. We don’t know who all is in the “cult”. And I believe we will know more about who knew what when. There will be all kinds of digital info come out, of that I’m sure. I think MG chose a bad place for her “letter”, that’s all. MOO

 

[KonaHonu]

Reading carefully in the affidavit regarding locating Alex's phone there are details that may explain some of the apparent discrepancies and inconsistencies we have noted.

A distinction seems to be being made between GPS data points and other location information. The GPS coordinates are the ones said to be accurate to 6 meters. The CAST location information also uses cell tower connections, Google tracking information, and wifi connections and I suspect those are less precise.

So the conclusion that they were at Buckeroos could have been because his phone detected their wifi. Google can pinpoint your location even without GPS by using the known location of a wifi network. You don't even have to connect to the network. So they could have been getting Mexican food or something else, even getting gas and using the restroom and were located at Buckeroos simply by their wifi presence. I think the gas station was likely too far away but a wifi signal can go 300 ft or so, sometimes farther. You may not get much throughput at that distance but the network presence can be detected.

It is notable to me that the paragraph that talks about Buckeroos says "appeared to be at Buckeroos" while the other locations are stated as "was located at." It's possible they know which apartment he was in from wifi rather than GPS.

The affidavit was careful to point out that the location at Chad's property was a GPS datapoint (with 6 meter precision) and that the St. Anthony location was a cell tower ping.

Something else that might be notable is that on the day of the search in November, they said there was a ping in the general location of the property but it could not be pinpointed. That to me implies that tower pings would be insufficient to identify which apartment the phone was in. I considered the fact that the FBI capabilities are likely better than those of RPD but the FBI was already involved in November. It's also likely that careful post facto analysis allows better accuracy than the quick test LE did on teh morning of the search.

 

[Drc40]

I have been waiting to bring this up, about the 11 days....According to the timeline, MG did speak with the police in Gilbert AZ on November 26, the same day she was asked by LV and CD to say that JJ was with her in AZ.

She apparently did not tell them that she was asked to lie, but did report that she did not have JJ.

On December 6, she called Rexburg police to report that she had been asked to lie.

I think it is a little misleading to say that MG did not call the police back for 11 days, when she did indeed speak to the Gilbert PD the very same day, according to the timeline.

26 Nov 2019 – After RPD leave, Lori and Chad each contact their friend MG separately; Both Lori and Chad ask MG to tell police that she has JJ even though JJ is not with her. MG says she declined the requests of Chad and Lori and she did not lie to the police on their behalf (Affidavit of Probable Cause Doc; East Idaho News)

26 Nov 2019, about 9:30 pm - Rexburg PD have not heard from MG so they call Gilbert PD. LE in Arizona go to MG’s home but she is not there. GPD reaches MG by phone; She tells them JJ has not been there for several months. (Affidavit of Probable Cause Doc; East Idaho News)

and then....

6 Dec 2019 - RPD is contacted by Melanie Gibb. MG says that both Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow called MG on Nov 26, 2019, at separate times and asked her to tell police that she had JJ even though JJ was not with her. “Melanie informed RPD that she declined Chad’s and Lori’s requests.”

ID - Joshua Vallow & Tylee Ryan, Rexburg, Sept 2019 TIMELINE ONLY - *NO DISCUSSION*

Which is worse. She talked to the police after Chad called. She described him as nervous then talked to Lori but fails to tell police about the calls. She was not forthcoming with relevant information and mislead the police by not mentioning the calls. That’s a lie by omission.

What’s even worse is the defense could use this as an argument to refute her testimony. No wonder the prosecution wants to paint her as pristine.

 

[Spartygirl]

Yes, I've looked up the exact locations. The apartment Alex was in had been listed on Zillow but has been de-listed now. However, you can still find those photos if you look hard enough. Lori's place is still on Zillow and you can see some pics of the exterior and interior if you are interested. Plus, the Ring doorbell footage shows her building as well. The complex is relatively small and is called Rock Creek Town Homes.

Obviously, the GPS was precise enough to identify Alex's location when in his own apartment and when in Lori's. I'm just curious about the gap in time between his being in his unit and when he is in Lori's. That means one of the following: 1) there were no pings from which his location could be confirmed for the gap; 2) LE did not give us info for that gap even though they have it. If the phone did not ping that makes me question whether we can be confident about the duration for his visits on the Daybell property. If there is a continuous GPS ant trail, no problem. However, I am still questioning why the affidavit would list a 2 hour gap between when he is in his place and when he is said to be in Lori's.

My first thought is just that he was still home, did not go anywhere, maybe sleeping/napping, phone is off so not pinging.
He then woke up, or may had alarm set and got busy.

 

[The First Article]

Something else that might be notable is that on the day of the search in November, they said there was a ping in the general location of the property but it could not be pinpointed. That to me implies that tower pings would be insufficient to identify which apartment the phone was in. I considered the fact that the FBI capabilities are likely better than those of RPD but the FBI was already involved in November. It's also likely that careful post facto analysis allows better accuracy than the quick test LE did on teh morning of the search.

snipped for clarity. From experience sometimes you just ping on a tower that is nearby but isn't necessarily the usual ones you'd get without moving anywhere. My family has a place which isn't too far from the US border and when we are there and at certain locations like the lake beach nearby we have to be sure to have our international roaming on even though we are still in Canada. The mobiles will sometime ping on a tower on the other side of the border and drive up rates randomly or automatically change our plan. Or we'll get a message welcoming us to the US.

So Alex could have just still been on the property (as vaguely suggested) in the provided timeline for cause, when his phone pinged a further tower, without moving.

The triangulation of hitting more than three towers likely increases accuracy too. How many towers are in the area in question? You could probably get very accurate results that way.

 

[Spartygirl]

I haven't seen @SleuthD-o-doubleg or @RexburgSleuth on here lately or have I just missed seeing their posts ??
Hope you both are doing OK
It is understandable to take time away right now and we are all here for you and thinking of you all who are locals and friends of the families.
@Redvines86 -also thinking of you as I know you are trying to wrap your head around this strange case.
I know there is another VI that I haven't seen lately either and we are thinking of you also. (I can't remember screen name, so sorry)

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Approx 7 Sept 2019 – JJ told his friend, neighbor SB's son, that he and his sister would be leaving soon. "They played everyday almost, until [JJ] said he was moving to his grandmother's…They told my son that, 'Oh yeah, we're going to go visit my grandmother.' We didn't know where that was. I said, 'Oh, okay,' and I understood because school was about to start. The semester was about to start and she was going to school, from what I understood," SB said (LocalNews8 ABC)
———
I just looked at the new timeline that @Tortoise updated. Made me sad to remember this. Why do we think JJ said this ahead of time? Was he being fed a story to parrot to others so no one would question where he was? This many days ahead of time?

 

[trujac]

I guess I have a different approach to this whole thing.
I don't believe in any of this stuff, which makes me assume the Zombie Gang don't believe any of it either. Which makes me opine that the whole zombie/end of days apparatus was just a convenient story to legitimize getting what they wanted in life. And doing that would involve killing a bunch of people. And then former lives and portals and a whole bunch of other motifs were thrown on top like embellishments, not essentials.
Maybe the problem is in my assumption. Maybe my own beliefs have given me a blind spot because I just can't imagine folks actually believing this stuff. But, yep, I see it all as a self-aggrandizing babble used to legitimize murder. A Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh type do-over. (The Rajneeshees poisoned an Oregon town with salmonella—first terrorist attack on US soil—as revenge for opposition to their plan.)
Mods, if I'm being offensive, please remove my post. But I'm really just trying to understand my own approach to this case, and it's based on not being able to believe any of this myself. I'm really fascinated that some folks come at this case from the exact opposite direction and arrive at the idea that a cluster of folks could so ardently believe in zombies etc. that they'd murder for their beliefs. I'm not saying they're wrong, just that I can't go there.
Is it possible the Zombie Gang were in both of those spaces simultaneously? Believing but at the same time using their beliefs cynically to get what they want?
We shall see how it turns out!

Enjoyed reading your post...IMO, trying to explain bizarre thinking and strange ideation starts with acknowledging that the human mind functions within an organ that has its own functionality independent of the act of thinking. The brain seems to build its networks of response in relation to how a person thinks--which could explain why people with psychotic thinking patterns continue to escalate in their irrational fantasies. CD and LV distorted concept of reality seems authentic to me...I don't think they were pretending to embrace the bizarre religion of zombies and redemption through murdering them. The very fact there was a continuous and consistent story line providing them with a legitimate reason for the murders, and they did virtually nothing to escape detection of murdering LV's children (other than burying the children on Chad's property, then flying to Hawaii to get married) suggests to me that they believed there would be no consequences to their actions as long as they held true to their beliefs...thank god, they are behind bars now...otherwise, the list of dead people connected CD and LV would have continued unabated.

 

[Secretly a Secretary]

IMO
Something I am hung up on: LE has had Alex’s truck for quite sometime. I would imagine the truck has been thoroughly investigated for evidence of any crime and/or transportation of victims. Perhaps even used cadaver dogs to see if there was any residual scent? Early in the investigation I believe LE believed the children were missing feared in danger, but I never got the feeling they were 100% sure themselves.
If Alex’s truck had no residual evidence to determine they were in fact dead what vehicle transported them? We know Alex was at Chads but we do not know with the same certainty if his truck was. Were they alive and killed at the site? Chads vehicle?
Also, Alex had a out of state vanity plate, that was blasted across the news, would that not raise some recall in the neighborhood? Fires and digging may not raise as many red flags in rural Idaho as an unusual out of state vanity plate for several hours and also on several different occasions.

 

[fuzzybutter]

Which is worse. She talked to the police after Chad called. She described him as nervous then talked to Lori but fails to tell police about the calls. She was not forthcoming with relevant information and mislead the police by not mentioning the calls. That’s a lie by omission.

What’s even worse is the defense could use this as an argument to refute her testimony. No wonder the prosecution wants to paint her as pristine.

I understand what you are saying, but in context of this case, What difference did her lie of omission make? The kids were already dead.

 

[Spartygirl]

I was trying to figure out when that statement was made. I think we can drop the idea that anyone was threatening Lori. But I think it is very possible AC was threatening Chad. At least until 12/12.

I think more like AC was getting scared and nervous and was expressing this to CD and LVD because LE was getting ready to "talk" to him about the shooting attempt on TD and LE wanted to follow up with talking to him more about shooting CV as it now looked suspicious plus the fact that TD body was being exhumed.
I think he was collateral damage to CD and LVD-they didn't want him talking more to LE about anything.
Or he was scared enough to end his own life, but I think more it was LVD and CD JMO

 

[Redvines86]

I haven't seen @SleuthD-o-doubleg or @RexburgSleuth on here lately or have I just missed seeing their posts ??
Hope you both are doing OK
It is understandable to take time away right now and we are all here for you and thinking of you all who are locals and friends of the families.
@Redvines86 -also thinking of you as I know you are trying to wrap your head around this strange case.
I know there is another VI that I haven't seen lately either and we are thinking of you also. (I can't remember screen name, so sorry)

Randoclarissian? I can't imagine how difficult this is for the Idaho folks. I'll be honest, right now I'm just so angry at those two idiots dancing on a Kauai beach while those darling babies were buried under dirt and snow on a Idaho farm, but I'll move past the anger and be able to think rationally soon. MOO Thank you so much for your kindness!

 

[Forever Young]

I understand what you are saying, but in context of this case, What difference did her lie of omission make? The kids were already dead.

Also, the Rexburg Police had been told by LV that MG had JJ. When MG reported that she did not have JJ, LE surely recognized that LV had lied to them. They really didn't need MG to tell them that she had been asked to lie, because she basically did tell them they had been lied to by saying JJ had not been in AZ for months.

 

[jjenny]

Which is worse. She talked to the police after Chad called. She described him as nervous then talked to Lori but fails to tell police about the calls. She was not forthcoming with relevant information and mislead the police by not mentioning the calls. That’s a lie by omission.

What’s even worse is the defense could use this as an argument to refute her testimony. No wonder the prosecution wants to paint her as pristine.

Prosecution haven't portrayed her as anything. She told police JJ wasn't there, which is the truth. Then, a few weeks later, she told police that Chad and Lori asked her to lie that JJ was there. Which also was the truth.

 

[KonaHonu]

I think more like AC was getting scared and nervous and was expressing this to CD and LVD because LE was getting ready to "talk" to him about the shooting attempt on TD and LE wanted to follow up with talking to him more about shooting CV as it now looked suspicious plus the fact that TD body was being exhumed.
I think he was collateral damage to CD and LVD-they didn't want him talking more to LE about anything.
Or he was scared enough to end his own life, but I think more it was LVD and CD JMO

I do a lot of speculating when there is an absence of evidence but I think the ME report on AC is clear evidence that he died of pulmonary embolism caused by heart disease and likely a family history of clotting disorders. I would need strong and convincing evidence to believe otherwise.

You ar eprobably right that LE was closing in and he felt it and that brought on stress. But the autopsy findings were consistent with natural causes rathe than homicide or suicide.

 

[Spartygirl]

I agree with Satchie, around here if someone is dead & you are holding the implement of that death, expect a ride in a black&white.

You may not spend the night, but you got some 'splainin' to do. Likely charges that can be dismissed with no record.

Now Arizona. Well I used to live in Arizona. Have you heard of Eloy, Arizona? Eloy is the last town in the USA to outlaw gunfighting in the streets.

Which they did in 1967.

Also, IIRC there was an officer involved in the Gilbert, AZ investigation who was involved in either AVOW or PAP or both.

Perhaps the investigation was, limited?

JMHO YMMV LRR

Correct-- HE was either Chandler or Gilbert but both were involved, IIRC in investigating CV death which LE botched up horribly, IMO
plus the fact that CV went to LE PRIOR to being murdered to explain his fears for his life and the children and was pretty much poo-pooed away.