Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[Awsi Dooger]

I think he fantasized extensively about what he might do to a victim on an isolated trail, so in that sense his actions were "planned." But I think it was happenstance that he chose Abby and Libby that day...his choice had more to do with their exact location on the bridge than anything else about them (including their age) IMO.

I think BG is the type of person who gets a lot of satisfaction out of fantasizing about and re-living his crimes. He probably started out with the idea of cornering a female victim and probably scouted many different trails or other isolated spots, thinking about how he would do it. I think he likely had the idea that he would do this, how he would do it, for many months and February 13th just so happened to be the day it came together.

I agree with that word for word. It was a general plan that just happened to end in a specific...that day, that trail, those two girls.

I often struggle on true crime message boards because the spotlight and consensus is exactly the opposite. The randomness or sense of choice is thrown out. It had to be that day. It had to be that trail. It had to be two girls. It had to be those two girls.

All of that stuff leads to the belief in catfishing, or social media tracking, or geocaching, or secret meeting...some type of connection to Abby and Libby.

I think I break the online land speed record in fast forwarding through any post like that.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Just like how Carter kept emphasizing "two little girls." Some of these offenders don't want to be viewed as pedophiles and don't even want to be associated with their crimes against underage victims.

Carter may have gone off script in parts of the press conference but I believe the statements above were probably coached by FBI behavioralists.

That makes a tremendous amount of sense. There is no question Carter veered significantly at the last minute, given the complete abandonment of the factual focus of the press release.

However, the key emotional and phrasing elements were still there, and no doubt crafted ahead of time by FBI and other specialists.

My opinion is that these perpetrators thrive on the preparation and reliving as much if not more than the act itself, along with the satisfaction of escape. That's why I don't think the coaxing has any impact at all. Bridge Guy was probably laughing.

I think forensics will eventually solve this. One piece of evidence can mean nothing today and everything 1 or 5 or 10 or however many years from now.

 

[Falling Down]

That makes a tremendous amount of sense. There is no question Carter veered significantly at the last minute, given the complete abandonment of the factual focus of the press release.

However, the key emotional and phrasing elements were still there, and no doubt crafted ahead of time by FBI and other specialists.

My opinion is that these perpetrators thrive on the preparation and reliving as much if not more than the act itself, along with the satisfaction of escape. That's why I don't think the coaxing has any impact at all. Bridge Guy was probably laughing.

I think forensics will eventually solve this. One piece of evidence can mean nothing today and everything 1 or 5 or 10 or however many years from now.

I keep going to back to what I think is a central tenet of this whole set of crimes.

He wanted and needed to keep things as simple as possible, he couldn't stray from the script he'd cooked up in his sick mind. No need to make things any more difficult by luring anyone to the MHB that day. His victim or victims would fall right into the trap he'd imagined in his mind.

He saw them, and an hour or a little over an hour later they lay deceased or close to it in those woods.

JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

I agree with that word for word. It was a general plan that just happened to end in a specific...that day, that trail, those two girls.

I often struggle on true crime message boards because the spotlight and consensus is exactly the opposite. The randomness or sense of choice is thrown out. It had to be that day. It had to be that trail. It had to be two girls. It had to be those two girls.

All of that stuff leads to the belief in catfishing, or social media tracking, or geocaching, or secret meeting...some type of connection to Abby and Libby.

I think I break the online land speed record in fast forwarding through any post like that.

I struggle for the same reason. A lot of research into these types of offenders points to the element of randomness that underlies the patterns that they do.

I often ask myself why people on these boards are constantly seeking these fantastic scenarios to explain why the crime isn't solved, or to explain what happened. I think a small portion of posters here have watched a lot of crime shows and read a lot of mystery stories and propose these things to entertain themselves. They are probably well-meaning and don't even realize that's what they are doing.

And then the majority of posters are decent people who are trying to make sense of the evil things that happen. I think it actually makes them feel better to deny the randomness. If the girls were talking to someone on social media who catfished them, or if it was a coach in a disguise, or if they were silenced for discovering a secret on the dark web, then this happened to them FOR A REASON. If it wasn't random, I can feel better because it can't happen to me or my loved ones.

 

[KimboSlice]

Apologizes in advance if this has been brought up but I strongly feel that Abby and Libby should be on the revamp of Unsolved Mysteries on Netflix. I binged this in two days and feel this would reach a massive audience (#1 on Netflix today). Thanks to all for keeping this thread alive with great discussions!

 

[Confusion]

I struggle for the same reason. A lot of research into these types of offenders points to the element of randomness that underlies the patterns that they do.

I often ask myself why people on these boards are constantly seeking these fantastic scenarios to explain why the crime isn't solved, or to explain what happened. I think a small portion of posters here have watched a lot of crime shows and read a lot of mystery stories and propose these things to entertain themselves. They are probably well-meaning and don't even realize that's what they are doing.

And then the majority of posters are decent people who are trying to make sense of the evil things that happen. I think it actually makes them feel better to deny the randomness. If the girls were talking to someone on social media who catfished them, or if it was a coach in a disguise, or if they were silenced for discovering a secret on the dark web, then this happened to them FOR A REASON. If it wasn't random, I can feel better because it can't happen to me or my loved ones.

I'm a bit confused by your post, and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be offended or not. I'd like to think that I'm a decent person, but I also tend to come up with some fairly off the wall scenarios at times. I don't do it to entertain myself, and I almost never suspect catfishing. If coming up with possible scenarios to help me figure out the type of person who might commit a specific crime is annoying or distracting to others, I can just keep them to myself. In case anyone really cares what I think (even I don't always...), I can give a few of the characteristics I've come up with from my "stories".

I believe:
1. He is self-confident, at least in his ability to commit the crime.
2. He is enough of a loner to be able to avoid people for several days without attracting attention or curiosity.
3. He is social enough to not be seen as a total oddball by his neighbors or family.
4. He is fairly well organized.
5. He is able to adapt his plan if circumstances require it.
6. He has spent much time at and/or near the bridge.
7. He knows, and may be related to, someone in the immediate area.
8. Almost everybody who knows him will be shocked if/when he is identified.
9. He may not have known he was going to kill someone that day, but he was prepared to do it if circumstances were right.
10. He may have chosen the woman who was on the bridge around 3 (I don't remember her name) if the girls hadn't been there.
Several other things, but I think I've wasted enough of people's time when I have nothing to back up my beliefs.
MOO

 

[Charlot123]

I think that IF he is as local as LE seems to believe right now, he has almost certainly been back. I doubt the trails are traveled well enough that anyone has observed this necessarily, but I think that if he's the type of killer I think he is, the lure of re-living the experience would call to him very strongly.

Edit to add: we don't know if he took something away from the scene. But I think he probably did. I'm sure the search warrants from the early days of the investigation, which I assume are now sealed, would reveal something about this because I think LE suspected this early on.

What if he has a very good, very valid, reason to come back? There might be tons of professions related to the chance to travel to the Bridge

Respectfully snipped for focus and commentary response.
Agree. I absolutely believe one of the girls was targeted and had previous contact with the Perp on SM.

Motive? I was recently communicating with a LE veteran in reference to another case. He said in the case of serial killers (which I believe the Delphi Perp to be), their reasoning is "why not?" Miscreants of this variety have absolutely no empathy or connection to humanity. Controlling and inflicting pain is highly stimulating to them, and they could care less about the Victim(s). The empathy part of their brain does not function, and renders them to the same level as a hungry snake. It's just that simple.

This reptile will be caught and caged. I would make them an offer if the justice system would allow. They could choose life with hard labor, (chain gang), or they could get three hots and a cot in exchange for *non-invasive* tests on their brain, and agree to donate their brain for study when deceased. We need to better understand the malfunction, so we can attempt to suppress these reptilian instincts, or at least identify the patterns of behavior leading up to these devastating acts against humanity.

Amateur opinion and speculation

You won’t see anything different in their brains PM. Consider that they may have long lives and age-related changes might obscure whatever brain anomaly there could be.

But I don’t think there is. Maybe PET scanner and the responses of the brain to different computer pictures could be interesting, but I don’t think we’ll see anything at the level of their brain anatomy. Yet.

Sadly, but “prison justice” is against my moral principles, even if these miscreants deserve it. Sicilian vendetta, when the society itself quietly takes care of them, I understand, but we are not in Sicily.

I’d prefer him to deal with the issue himself, before he faces arrest, process, and torture in jail - I don’t feel sorry for him, but I am against lawlessness.

 

[Charlot123]

Apologizes in advance if this has been brought up but I strongly feel that Abby and Libby should be on the revamp of Unsolved Mysteries on Netflix. I binged this in two days and feel this would reach a massive audience (#1 on Netflix today). Thanks to all for keeping this thread alive with great discussions!

I am repeating myself, but the BG has to be shown on FOX and CNN and MSNBC and other channels. Most information gets on the Internet, but people watch TV. It is a 20sec loop, but it might save the money and the time.

 

[Charlot123]

I agree with that word for word. It was a general plan that just happened to end in a specific...that day, that trail, those two girls.

I often struggle on true crime message boards because the spotlight and consensus is exactly the opposite. The randomness or sense of choice is thrown out. It had to be that day. It had to be that trail. It had to be two girls. It had to be those two girls.

All of that stuff leads to the belief in catfishing, or social media tracking, or geocaching, or secret meeting...some type of connection to Abby and Libby.

I think I break the online land speed record in fast forwarding through any post like that.

OK, let us not tie him up to the girls, but to the place, the bridge, he has to be tied up. He somehow has to explain his presence on the bridge if a group of local men runs into him. So there is something between him and the bridge, either he lives close by, or he takes photos, or he works nearby.

There must have been the way for him to explain why he, dressed like a clown and probably rattling like an old carriage from all kill kits he carried, was on the bridge that day. What was it?

 

[Charlot123]

I'm a bit confused by your post, and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be offended or not. I'd like to think that I'm a decent person, but I also tend to come up with some fairly off the wall scenarios at times. I don't do it to entertain myself, and I almost never suspect catfishing. If coming up with possible scenarios to help me figure out the type of person who might commit a specific crime is annoying or distracting to others, I can just keep them to myself. In case anyone really cares what I think (even I don't always...), I can give a few of the characteristics I've come up with from my "stories".

I believe:
1. He is self-confident, at least in his ability to commit the crime.
2. He is enough of a loner to be able to avoid people for several days without attracting attention or curiosity.
3. He is social enough to not be seen as a total oddball by his neighbors or family.
4. He is fairly well organized.
5. He is able to adapt his plan if circumstances require it.
6. He has spent much time at and/or near the bridge.
7. He knows, and may be related to, someone in the immediate area.
8. Almost everybody who knows him will be shocked if/when he is identified.
9. He may not have known he was going to kill someone that day, but he was prepared to do it if circumstances were right.
10. He may have chosen the woman who was on the bridge around 3 (I don't remember her name) if the girls hadn't been there.
Several other things, but I think I've wasted enough of people's time when I have nothing to back up my beliefs.
MOO

You know why many think he is from the military? Army teaches people to be physically organized, to rapidly gather their stuff. Maybe what we view as mental IQ is his good physical organization.

 

[Confusion]

You know why many think he is from the military? Army teaches people to be physically organized, to rapidly gather their stuff. Maybe what we view as mental IQ is his good physical organization.

I was having a "senior moment" when I wrote that... I settled for the word organized because I blanked out on the word disciplined. I guess that too is something they teach in the military so the choice of word doesn't affect what you said, but it does change the meaning of my post a little bit.

 

[sunshineray]

I agree with that word for word. It was a general plan that just happened to end in a specific...that day, that trail, those two girls.

I often struggle on true crime message boards because the spotlight and consensus is exactly the opposite. The randomness or sense of choice is thrown out. It had to be that day. It had to be that trail. It had to be two girls. It had to be those two girls.

All of that stuff leads to the belief in catfishing, or social media tracking, or geocaching, or secret meeting...some type of connection to Abby and Libby.

I think I break the online land speed record in fast forwarding through any post like that.

Curious to know your thoughts, do you think Abby and Libby were this killer's first victims or he had killed before?

 

[TFrog1976]

I think I have a better lead than almost anyone ever had on this case. I've sent it directly to Superintendent Carter the past few days. And to the tip line. I am genuinely not sure how to express who I think this individual may be, and suffice it to say, if my investigative work is correct, Carter is spot-on when he and others in LE say it will shock the community. If I laid down my entire case here, you would all likely be stunned. When they find this person, do not be shocked if he resembles the first sketch. The second sketch is to mess with his mind, and is very likely a younger version of him. I know that sounds insane, but this site does not allow for side-by-sides. Trust me when I say, my theory is NOT based on side by sides, but tons of circumstantial evidence that blew my mind, and involved a currently unfolding scandal in Carroll County. The police and FBI were trying to let the killer know they know who he is, but they cannot get that one smoking gun piece of evidence to prove it still. Ask yourself, if that person is right under their noses, why would they not be able to apprehend that person? Answer that question, which I believe I have, and that will be step one toward understanding why no one has come forward yet.

 

[sunshineray]

I'm a bit confused by your post, and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be offended or not. I'd like to think that I'm a decent person, but I also tend to come up with some fairly off the wall scenarios at times. I don't do it to entertain myself, and I almost never suspect catfishing. If coming up with possible scenarios to help me figure out the type of person who might commit a specific crime is annoying or distracting to others, I can just keep them to myself. In case anyone really cares what I think (even I don't always...), I can give a few of the characteristics I've come up with from my "stories".

I believe:
1. He is self-confident, at least in his ability to commit the crime.
2. He is enough of a loner to be able to avoid people for several days without attracting attention or curiosity.
3. He is social enough to not be seen as a total oddball by his neighbors or family.
4. He is fairly well organized.
5. He is able to adapt his plan if circumstances require it.
6. He has spent much time at and/or near the bridge.
7. He knows, and may be related to, someone in the immediate area.
8. Almost everybody who knows him will be shocked if/when he is identified.
9. He may not have known he was going to kill someone that day, but he was prepared to do it if circumstances were right.
10. He may have chosen the woman who was on the bridge around 3 (I don't remember her name) if the girls hadn't been there.
Several other things, but I think I've wasted enough of people's time when I have nothing to back up my beliefs.
MOO

That young woman who was on the bridge that day, a little later than the girls, was also walking with a friend.

 

[Confusion]

That young woman who was on the bridge that day, a little later than the girls, was also walking with a friend.

I guess my memory is even worse than I thought. Thanks.

 

[TFrog1976]

I'm a bit confused by your post, and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be offended or not. I'd like to think that I'm a decent person, but I also tend to come up with some fairly off the wall scenarios at times. I don't do it to entertain myself, and I almost never suspect catfishing. If coming up with possible scenarios to help me figure out the type of person who might commit a specific crime is annoying or distracting to others, I can just keep them to myself. In case anyone really cares what I think (even I don't always...), I can give a few of the characteristics I've come up with from my "stories".

I believe:
1. He is self-confident, at least in his ability to commit the crime.
2. He is enough of a loner to be able to avoid people for several days without attracting attention or curiosity.
3. He is social enough to not be seen as a total oddball by his neighbors or family.
4. He is fairly well organized.
5. He is able to adapt his plan if circumstances require it.
6. He has spent much time at and/or near the bridge.
7. He knows, and may be related to, someone in the immediate area.
8. Almost everybody who knows him will be shocked if/when he is identified.
9. He may not have known he was going to kill someone that day, but he was prepared to do it if circumstances were right.
10. He may have chosen the woman who was on the bridge around 3 (I don't remember her name) if the girls hadn't been there.
Several other things, but I think I've wasted enough of people's time when I have nothing to back up my beliefs.
MOO

This list checks every single box of my current suspect, and then some.

 

[sunshineray]

I guess my memory is even worse than I thought. Thanks.

No no, I wasn't criticizing you at all. I just thought I'd mention that. Wondering if it had been two adult women if BG would have even tried to do the same as he did with two children.

 

[Charlot123]

I was having a "senior moment" when I wrote that... I settled for the word organized because I blanked out on the word disciplined. I guess that too is something they teach in the military so the choice of word doesn't affect what you said, but it does change the meaning of my post a little bit.

No, not disciplined.

Physically organized.

Like...the word has escaped me - landmine specialist? Where fast, precise movements are important.

But there are many other professions where promptness and precision play the role.

A surgeon comes to mind. And while my grandpa was a surgeon and a smart man, my once close friend barely got Cs at high school and yet made an amazing surgeon.

One could think of many other specialties where physical organization is important.

Or maybe BG is naturally gifted with hands, "a man in the house", can fix anything without a problem.

Horrible to write it, but he probably was like it. And he could be a military man, or he could be naturally like this.

 

[Charlot123]

No no, I wasn't criticizing you at all. I just thought I'd mention that. Wondering if it had been two adult women if BG would have even tried to do the same as he did with two children.

Some, yes. Not adult Libby.

 

[TFrog1976]

No no, I wasn't criticizing you at all. I just thought I'd mention that. Wondering if it had been two adult women if BG would have even tried to do the same as he did with two children.

That question will be answered when you download those files. And that answer will be a resounding yes, if it is who I think it is. Maybe not two, but any woman in general he would have targeted. We may not know the motive yet, but this person is brazen for a reason. He feels he won't be caught, which is why he did this in broad daylight.