Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

    On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
    The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below


    HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19
    [​IMG]


    HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST AUDIO:
    https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav

    Here is the old audio in a loop:

    http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

    LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

    FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.


    Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

    Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

    Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

    video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

    Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.


    Pictures of Abby and Libby

    Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

    Thread #99 Thread #100 Thread #101 Thread #102 Thread #103 Thread #104 Thread #105 Thread #106 Thread #107 Thread #108 Thread #109 Thread #110 Thread #111 Thread #112 Thread #113 Thread #114 Thread #115 Thread #116 Thread #117 Thread #118 Thread #119 Thread #120Thread #121 Thread #122 Thread #123




    Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*

    IMAGE Discussion Thread

    Scanner Thread

    Rules Etiquette & Information

    Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

    Grayhuze youtube channel

    Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

    RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION

    DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

    PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

    Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

    If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2020


  2. sillybilly

    sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    ADMIN NOTE:

    Some posts have been removed as off topic. Hopefully the following clarifies.

    For those enquiring about the use of initials, reference is made in TOS under Name Calling and Derogatory Name Variations by simply stating "Initials may be used, and are encouraged".

    There are rules and then there are policies. WS policy is to NOT use full names so that the names of innocent people are not forever etched in stone on a crime sleuthing website when they may have had nothing to do with the actual crime. It could also have potential legal ramifications that nobody needs. The policy has been that we can use full names for a victim and a POI/suspect who has been officially named by LE but for most others we use initials. It is a matter of discretion and WSers have been adhering to that policy for about 20 years now and it has served us well, so it is very possible for members to get used to it. If we can get to know members by their anonymous user IDs such as 1973Aplus8, surely we can get used to initials used throughout a specific case.

    Example: One thread some of us are familiar with, a person not only self-identified, but also stated they knew they were a POI although LE had not named them as such. That highly qualified person subsequently reported they were having difficulty getting employment because their name was showing up to potential employers in google searches connected to discussion of a horrific murder.

    This is Thread #123 for Abby and Libby and we've have done alright so far. If someone wants to complete the list of initials and abbreviations, please submit it to us via private message and we will include it in future Opening Posts. Otherwise, please stay on topic in this thread.

    If you have questions, please do not discuss them on the thread so we don't derail the thread with off topic conversation. You may private message a Mod or Admin for clarification.

    Thanks.
     
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  3. sillybilly

    sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    That one of the girls was forced to watch is rumor.

    Please do not bring rumors to WS and discuss them. Thanks.
     
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  4. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

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    A big difference in this example and that of a specific crime like the Delphi murders is that information about what kind of horrors were done to children by the Catholic Church could absolutely be reported on without the particulars of molestations, rapes, etc being attached to a particular victim's identity. Other than that, I agree that atrocities should not be downplayed. I just think there needs to be a balance between privacy and this information.
     
  5. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    People have tried to interpret his movements on that old bridge, based on a grainy video.

    I interpret his movements in those 1.5 seconds as confident, purposeful, deliberate. He knows exactly what he's doing, and he already had some semblance of control of the situation. The girls' guard was down. Not totally down, obviously, but they had no idea what his intentions were in those last seconds before the abduction.

    he knew exactly what he was doing, as had practiced it IMO.

    JMO
     
  6. electricuncalm

    electricuncalm New Member

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    i searched through the thread but never saw this corrected... Evansdale Iowa and Delphi Indiana are about 395 miles apart, a roughly 6 1/2 hour drive. Not a huge difference, especially for one who travels regularly but still.
     
  7. electricuncalm

    electricuncalm New Member

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    you nailed that one!
    Yesterday I was searching for photos of the victim of the Lululemon murder.. it took several pages of gore to get to a photo of the victim alive and well, which is what I wanted.
     
  8. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who shares images of children as you describe would be arrested, no? Doesn't FB take them down, report them, kick those people off their platform?
     
  9. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    We have a loop with some frames probably cut out, too. It might generate the wrong impression. And that makes the situation more difficult. I don’t know what his gait is - all I can say is, if all his steps are like this, it is neuropathic gait, if just one, something else.

    LE posted that loop so that we could see “mannerisms”, though, meaning, it should be his gait???

    All this havoc, including two sketches, neither of them reminding the man on the bridge, is disorienting, not helping.
     
  10. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    That is a different senario as the child is still alive. In that situation, with the guilty party in jail for the additional crimes, also effecting the child, then no purpose would be served.

    I just feel that hiding or downplaying behaviors in our fellow humans because they are horrible and need not be examined only leads to those things they do being muted and soften, when they should be haunting us all and spurring us on to stop these crimes. We can't downplay what makes up horrified about eachother. That's all I'm trying to address. I personally think every crime scene photo should be banned from the internet but not the information that they can supply.
     
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  11. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    All that we the public need to know from the trial is the proof the prosecutor uses to establish “beyond reasonable doubt”. It should be enough for us, the public, to have no doubt. Then, even if he walks free (can happen), I hope he will be known and remembered.

    The Holocaust victims...do you know why Germany, after what the Nazi did, is a normal country now?

    Own Denazification processes.

    Big courts, like Nuremberg, judged the bigger Nazi. And some were let go. But after that, they were facing own, German, denazification trials. Speer (who was acquitted in Nuremberg but spent 4 years in prison after denazification trial), said the second one was far worse than the first one. The country, ashamed for its role in world history, proceeded with judging those responsible for the loss of millions, if international trials would let them go.

    So this parallel I would accept. Imagine the court can not establish “beyond the reasonable doubt”, but own citizens see it...
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  12. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

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    I guess we can agree to disagree on this, then. By the grace of God I don't have a murdered child but if I did, one thing that would haunt me is all the people - from pedophiles to mere curiosity and drama seekers - who were consuming details about my child's death as if it was nothing more than entertainment.

    Edited to add: you couldn't read a book that said, "Killers have been known to do such horrible things as..." that talks about crimes generally with no specific names attached, and get the same call to action that makes you want to get these predators behind bars?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  13. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    There are 2 sides to it. I don’t want to, personally. But if nothing is said, expect an eruption of gossips online. And then people would believe all these gossips.

    So maybe after the process, put something on the drive (not in photos, of course), like the prosecution did in Watts’ process, and dump it? Just to cut off someone’s fantasies?
     
  14. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully disagree...society has become too desensitized to the horror it creates.
     
  15. Andreee

    Andreee Well-Known Member

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    I agree, there is absolutely no necessity for the public at large in hearing or reading or seeing the extent of a victim's abuse and/or torture experienced at the hands of a perpetrator, particularly a minor child. Yes, the jurors in a case should if germaine to the case, but I think there is a need to preserve the dignity of the victim as well as the family members.
     
  16. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    History is made and written about every day. How we choose to learn from it or ignore it is our choice. I will also agree to disagree. I mean no harm to others, especially victims of crime and their families.
     
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  17. Andreee

    Andreee Well-Known Member

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    I just don't 'get' why the loop, I mean perhaps that is all they had! If not, I really don't see the harm in giving the public one more of BG's steps to make things just a bit easier to gauge!
     
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  18. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

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    Not enough LE to track down and arrest all these miscreants, but when it is put in front of them, they do. Further, when they start seeing patterns they zero in.
    But yes, it's an offense punishable by prison time, and several years depending on the quantity and severity of the images.

    Amateur opinion and speculation
     
  19. Ozoner

    Ozoner Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you: whether the victim is still alive make all the difference. In the Closs case, the details should be kept private unless the victim chooses to disclose them. In a case where the victim is dead, everything should be out in the open.
    -
    People should not be allowed to minimize and sugar coat was has happened. People should be forced to face, and address, the full brutality of crimes like this one. Otherwise, the killers and victims turn into abstractions and nobody bothers to do anything to drive change.
     
  20. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

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    In the clinic where I worked several years ago, we had a patient whose son had gone missing. She came to our clinic several times a week for treatments so we knew her well.

    He was missing for over 6 weeks, and there were many searches. Finally when he was found his body was in such bad shape it couldn’t be identified until autopsy.

    The next day, the front page of the newspaper featured the story that he was found. And in the article it detailed the fact that much of his body had been consumed by animals, including his entire face, so an autopsy had been required to identify him.

    I will never forget how shocked I was to read that, and how devastated she was. Definitely information that did not need to be released as it caused a great deal of grief to the family.
     

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