Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #9

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sleuth-d- said:
German law, and cases with no body.
List of murder convictions without a body - Wikipedia
It seems trials with no body are less frequent than - for instance - in the uk. could this be due to the way German law works? Only 2 cases on that list. One in 1920s, and then this one...

Retrial opens in case of 'fed-to-dogs' farmer whose body was found intact

Maybe this Rupp case is focusing minds of German LE. Making them even more intent on gathering the maximum amount of evidence, especially if they intend to pursue CB for MBM’s death, but without a body.

List of miscarriage of justice cases - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

I also think so. The lack of the body (or parts of it!!!) is lack of "forensic" evidence, as HCW always has stated! Just a boozy confession in a bar would NEVER let german LE treat to make the whole thing up the way they do. There MUST be another strong evidence. They found lots of gruesome data on CB's property.

But they already have to link it to him and MM as well or even to someone else!!! I think, they are investigating in all directions at the time.
 
SuperdadV8 said:
I also think so. The lack of the body (or parts of it!!!) is lack of "forensic" evidence, as HCW always has stated! Just a boozy confession in a bar would NEVER let german LE treat to make the whole thing up the way they do. There MUST be another strong evidence. They found lots of gruesome data on CB's property.

But they already have to link it to him and MM as well or even to someone else!!! I think, they are investigating in all directions at the time.
Click to expand...

Lack of body cases have a couple of huge potential issues;

1. Prove the deceased is dead
2. Prove the deceased died by an unlawful action on the part of the accused.

In this case CB has pre-fab defences created by other actors.

e.g the PJ inquiry may well create reasonable doubt by itself. How do you rule out an accidental death?

and the 1000s of reports of MM from all over the world. How do you prove death?
 
mrjitty said:
Lack of body cases have a couple of huge potential issues;

1. Prove the deceased is dead
2. Prove the deceased died by an unlawful action on the part of the accused.

In this case CB has pre-fab defences created by other actors.

e.g the PJ inquiry may well create reasonable doubt by itself. How do you rule out an accidental death?

and the 1000s of reports of MM from all over the world. How do you prove death?
Click to expand...

That might be the reason, why there are investigations still going on and there are no charges against CB yet. But the investigations have not been finished so far. It will also take a lot more time and THIS case could even be closed without a charge.

Anyway....wether he did it or not. I don't think, that CB will have the chance to live his life as he did before. Everybody knows him now and what he has done in the past. That is also a result of the investigation by german LE.

Not satisfying, no relief for the parents so far but hopefully a chance for others, to avoid him in the future instantly.

There is also a chance, that investigations lead to many other crimes he might have done. He is in prison. There is no need to charge him too early or declare the investigations as finished without results. He already has told to remain silent over his lawyers.

There is still a chance for the one lucky punch to take him behind bars for a long time. Either in the MM-Case or even another one.
 
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photographer4 said:
Have you read this? It says several dead dogs were found, not just one, and some were with their heads sticking out of the sand:Verbindung zwischen Christian B. und der vermissten Inga (5)? Anwalt ihres Vaters im Interview

NOTE: reading this with the help of the translator built into the browser.
Click to expand...

That is gross! Was it deliberate their heads were sticking up? Very odd. A while back someone posted a social media 'quotation' sort of thing, saying if one wants to bury a body bury it under animal bones or along those lines. I've never heard that before. Has anyone else? Do you think there really could be bodies under the dogs??
GM saying 'ask the dogs' might be unfortunately right!
 
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Chiatos said:
On his property! Probably at that run down old factory site in Germany!
He's insane.
Click to expand...


That is what tells to me, that all we know or assume could be just the tip of the iceberg. There is more to reveal in the future, could explain the secrecy in the investigation and the verdict of a murder case.

Obviously there could be more to reveal, than he just only might be a criminal drifter with pedophiliac urges. Horrible!
 
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photographer4 said:
Have you read this? It says several dead dogs were found, not just one, and some were with their heads sticking out of the sand:Verbindung zwischen Christian B. und der vermissten Inga (5)? Anwalt ihres Vaters im Interview

NOTE: reading this with the help of the translator built into the browser.
Click to expand...
there is a WSleuths thread for Inga if you are interested.

and what do you make of the coincidences going on here?
2 crimes where a small girl goes missing. different countries. separated by thousands of miles.
in both cases huge searches by police. in both cases absolutely no signs. no body. no evidence. no clues.

in MBM case, CB stayed in the close area at the time (Foral). and CB is on the phone in PdL on the night.

in Inga case CB is known to be in the area (Helmstedt) one day before. and CB had a home in the close area at the time (Neuwegersleben). CB has no alibi, and yet is somehow not a person of interest to LE.

imo, that is some coincidence being ignored .
 
Dlk79 said:
That argument doesn't stand up as we are effectively already in that situation. HCW has told everyone including the parents they know CB killed MM and have strong evidence to say why. They have also said they are not going to tell the parents what the evidence is. Whether that evidence is a video or not, is irrelevant. They've already made it clear they aren't going to reveal to the McCann's what it is they know that leads them to say their daughter is dead.

There's been some kickback and consternation about the McCanns being kept in the dark about it yes, but its hardly a "scandal". They take that criticism on the chin in light of the bigger picture which is getting the conviction, they have said as much.

Also, even if there is a video, it may not even be clear that it is of MM. I think what would be more of a scandal was if news of that video leaked to the press before they have enough evidence to charge anyone. Ultimately, if the McCann's knew about it, it would only be a matter of time before others close to them found out and the chance of a leak then grows exponentially.
Click to expand...

Exactly. If there was even a shadow of a doubt as to whose child was on a video, it would be completely unethical to disclose it to MM’s parents.
 
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I have made a timeline pinpointing Villa Bianca / Foral.
Also some thanks to Sleuth-d; some info comes from his sections!!

1994/1995; went to live at the finca at Sito das Lajes, PdL.
Neighbour: Ruth Maclean. At first CB lived there with a German gf. He lived there for 2-3 years.

1997-1998; befriends BP who lives in Barrocal and runs an illegal scrap yard
G 1999-2001: in custody {where?}[juvenile prison?][adult prison?] probably in Faro?

March 2006; rents a villa at Monte Judeu (while in jail???) Madeleine McCann: Suspect applies for early prison release | Daily Mail Online
24 April 2006; BP accepts/invites CB to live with him in Barrocal from jail.
May 2006; Ruth and daughter clean CB’s house at Sitio das Lajes after a “burglary”. They report him as a missing person at GNR in Lagos.
(CB was living with BP in Barrocal.)

April-May 2007; CB was already living in Villa Bianca in Foral, with NF and RS. Locals of Foral are terrified of CB. He was also known to carry a gun.
His gf worked at the local restaurant (if I understood well watching Sexta9). The restaurant is very nearby Villa Bianca
https://cdn-ondemand.rtp.pt/nas2.share/informacao/2020/wultimasbruckner_0307ww_289109.mp4
April-May 2007; SY cop was already living next door to Villa Bianca

3 May 2007; MM disappears
Ruth hadn’t seen CB for a couple of years at the finca at Sitio das Lajes! He was no longer living there. In fact she had cleaned out his house in 2006.
https://cdn-ondemand.rtp.pt/nas2.share/informacao/2020/wMaddieTJ_2606ww_288584.mp4

End of May 2007; CB pops up with a Winnebago
May-June 2007; satellite image of WF campervan at the finca at Sitio das Lajes. He wasn't living there anymore and the place had been cleaned out by Ruth in 2006.
How trustworthy is that image?

July-sep 2016; CB living in Villa Bianca again, with Oliver and Karin. Has a young gf in Germany.
2016; SY cop still living next door to Villa Bianca

23 Aug 2016; Germany issues international arrest warrant
12 Sep 2016; arrest warrant entered into SIRENE LE-system, PJ has access to.
22 Sep 2016; breaks Oliver’s nose. Six police officers come to the scene at Villa Bianca, they check all ID's, but don't arrest CB!

Location of Villa Bianca, the restaurant and the neighbours (....)
mksXAkp.jpg
 
photographer4 said:
Have you read this? It says several dead dogs were found, not just one, and some were with their heads sticking out of the sand:Verbindung zwischen Christian B. und der vermissten Inga (5)? Anwalt ihres Vaters im Interview

NOTE: reading this with the help of the translator built into the browser.
Click to expand...

Here is the article about the search,att

‘A property in Neuwegersleben was searched by the police. Among other things, it is about the suspicion of child *advertiser censored*.


Neuwegersleben l Because of the suspicion of child *advertiser censored*, the police raided a large property in Neuwegersleben on Tuesday which, according to the police, was formerly company premises. The central criminal police department of the Magdeburg police department was deployed in the morning with several officers and with several vehicles.

To secure evidence

This search took place in the context of two legal proceedings, which are currently going against a 39-year-old man,........’

‘Polizeieinsatz in Neuwegersleben

Nothing about several ‘buried’ dogs that I can’t find or follow ups...
Has to be added (imo)
+the search about environmental crimes:

‘.....about possible environmental crimes. "However, these two procedures run independently of one another, even if the searches were carried out at the same time," said the police spokesman.....’
 
mrjitty said:
I think this goes too far.

Assumption of death was made by both UK and PJ investigators in 2007 - this is hardly any great leap based on known evidence.

We can be certain that they cannot currently tie him directly to death because he has not been charged. So there might be 2 reasons for this.

1. They cannot prove the nature of the crime - e.g. how did she die?

2. They cannot prove identity - who did it?

IMO both 1 and 2 remain major issues for any investigation lacking a body. Not impossible to overcome, but the lack of charges is troubling given how far out on a limb they have gone.

my 02c
Click to expand...
I'm not aware assumption of death was made in 2007. What known evidence was there back then to lead to that conclusion?

I would be surprised if the professionals involved didn't think it however in what appeared to be an absence of any concrete evidence of that British LE at least seemed to still treating it as a missing persons enquiry.

After 13 yrs German LE are suddenly treating it as a murder investigation. A conclusion they reached in the last couple of years. They claim to have some kind of evidence that she is dead. They are also clear that this is not forensic evidence nor do they have a body, any part of a body or any knowledge of it's whereabouts.

If there is no forensic evidence I would assume no clothing or any trace of her DNA. I would assume evidence would mean they've gone beyond just witnesses.

It is just my opinion that it is possible that is something found when investigating him and filmed evidence is all I could think of. Especially given that they found the rape of the 72 year old had been filmed. It would fit his MO. But do you have other suggestions on what could have that have precipitated this very sudden, very public change?

I find the thoughts that the McCanns are not being supported by family liaison officers appalling. We don't know what they've been told
 
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sleuth-d- said:
there is a WSleuths thread for Inga if you are interested.

and what do you make of the coincidences going on here?
2 crimes where a small girl goes missing. different countries. separated by thousands of miles.
in both cases huge searches by police. in both cases absolutely no signs. no body. no evidence. no clues.

in MBM case, CB stayed in the close area at the time (Foral). and CB is on the phone in PdL on the night.

in Inga case CB is known to be in the area (Helmstedt) one day before. and CB had a home in the close area at the time (Neuwegersleben). CB has no alibi, and yet is somehow not a person of interest to LE.

imo, that is some coincidence being ignored .
Click to expand...

Ahh ok,it was about a parking space accident...
‘Only one day before Ingas' disappearance, the Autobahn police in Helmstedt had taken up a parking space accident at the service area in the direction of Berlin. Christian B. was at the wheel.’

They think he was driving between Braunschweig and Neuwegersleben? A day before little Inga vanished? For scouting the area?He did know somebody there who was connected somehow with Inga’s fam./event,right?

The place in the Börde district is only about 90 kilometers from Wilhemshof near Stendal. On May 1, 2015, Inga left there without a trace.
Neue Ermittlungen im Fall Inga
 
Wonder if the dogs were dead before being buried up to their necks..in some cultures people are buried up to their necks and stoned to death,..if they were dead what would the purpose be to do that?,wouldnt it draw more attention to the place?..the more we find out about this guy the more bizarre it gets
 
Chiatos said:
I have made a timeline pinpointing Villa Bianca / Foral.
Also some thanks to Sleuth-d; some info comes from his sections!!

1994/1995; went to live at the finca at Sito das Lajes, PdL.
Neighbour: Ruth Maclean. At first CB lived there with a German gf. He lived there for 2-3 years.

1997-1998; befriends BP who lives in Barrocal and runs an illegal scrap yard
G 1999-2001: in custody {where?}[juvenile prison?][adult prison?] probably in Faro?

March 2006; rents a villa at Monte Judeu (while in jail???) Madeleine McCann: Suspect applies for early prison release | Daily Mail Online
24 April 2006; BP accepts/invites CB to live with him in Barrocal from jail.
May 2006; Ruth and daughter clean CB’s house at Sitio das Lajes after a “burglary”. They report him as a missing person at GNR in Lagos.
(CB was living with BP in Barrocal.)

April-May 2007; CB was already living in Villa Bianca in Foral, with NF and RS. Locals of Foral are terrified of CB. He was also known to carry a gun.
His gf worked at the local restaurant (if I understood well watching Sexta9). The restaurant is very nearby Villa Bianca
https://cdn-ondemand.rtp.pt/nas2.share/informacao/2020/wultimasbruckner_0307ww_289109.mp4
April-May 2007; SY cop was already living next door to Villa Bianca

3 May 2007; MM disappears
Ruth hadn’t seen CB for a couple of years at the finca at Sitio das Lajes! He was no longer living there. In fact she had cleaned out his house in 2006.
https://cdn-ondemand.rtp.pt/nas2.share/informacao/2020/wMaddieTJ_2606ww_288584.mp4

End of May 2007; CB pops up with a Winnebago
May-June 2007; satellite image of WF campervan at the finca at Sitio das Lajes. He wasn't living there anymore and the place had been cleaned out by Ruth in 2006.
How trustworthy is that image?

July-sep 2016; CB living in Villa Bianca again, with Oliver and Karin. Has a young gf in Germany.
2016; SY cop still living next door to Villa Bianca

23 Aug 2016; Germany issues international arrest warrant
12 Sep 2016; arrest warrant entered into SIRENE LE-system, PJ has access to.
22 Sep 2016; breaks Oliver’s nose. Six police officers come to the scene at Villa Bianca, they check all ID's, but don't arrest CB!

Location of Villa Bianca, the restaurant and the neighbours (....)
mksXAkp.jpg
Click to expand...
Few things to query on that.

Date he started living at the Finca. I thought this was around 1999, not 1994? Have you got a link?

The prison sentence in 1999 wouldn't be in Faro, he was extradited back to Germany somewhere to serve it out.

The Monte Judea house, where have you seen he rented it in March 2006? I believe he was still living at the Finca at this point and ended up in jail the following month in April 2006.

April - May 2007 - you say he was living at villa bianca with NF, have you got any link to confirm it was from April? I've seen the sexta 9 video where the Austrian couple say he was living there at the time of MM but don't know if they were just approximating, all the MSM reports seem to say he was there a few weeks after MM. Very significant if there's anything to show he was already living there on 3rd May.
 
sleuth-d- said:
there is a WSleuths thread for Inga if you are interested.

and what do you make of the coincidences going on here?
2 crimes where a small girl goes missing. different countries. separated by thousands of miles.
in both cases huge searches by police. in both cases absolutely no signs. no body. no evidence. no clues.

in MBM case, CB stayed in the close area at the time (Foral). and CB is on the phone in PdL on the night.

in Inga case CB is known to be in the area (Helmstedt) one day before. and CB had a home in the close area at the time (Neuwegersleben). CB has no alibi, and yet is somehow not a person of interest to LE.

imo, that is some coincidence being ignored .
Click to expand...

BIB - because CB was investigated at the time and no connection was found. My understanding is German law enforcement have a different suspect they prefer for the Inga case, but cannot prove it.
 
LeopardLeotard said:
Wonder if the dogs were dead before being buried up to their necks..in some cultures people are buried up to their necks and stoned to death,..if they were dead what would the purpose be to do that?,wouldnt it draw more attention to the place?..the more we find out about this guy the more bizarre it gets
Click to expand...

unless the dogs were alive but tied up or incapacitated, surely they would have dug themselves out again?
 
Dlk79 said:
Few things to query on that.

Date he started living at the Finca. I thought this was around 1999, not 1994? Have you got a link?
His neighbour Ruth said it at 01:40 in: https://cdn-ondemand.rtp.pt/nas2.share/informacao/2020/wMaddieTJ_2606ww_288584.mp4
But maybe she meant, that he had arrived in the area in 1994?

The prison sentence in 1999 wouldn't be in Faro, he was extradited back to Germany somewhere to serve it out.
I'll look it up and post later.

The Monte Judea house, where have you seen he rented it in March 2006? I believe he was still living at the Finca at this point and ended up in jail the following month in April 2006. Officially he was still living at the finca, but Ruth hadn't seen him for some time already and cleared his house in 2006.
29374080-8403371-image-a-43_1591719745520.jpg


April - May 2007 - you say he was living at villa bianca with NF, have you got any link to confirm it was from April? I've seen the sexta 9 video where the Austrian couple say he was living there at the time of MM but don't know if they were just approximating, all the MSM reports seem to say he was there a few weeks after MM. Very significant if there's anything to show he was already living there on 3rd May.
Click to expand...
Open your quote to see answers.
Oliver and Karin are very certain that CB was already living in Villa Bianca when MM disappeared on May 3rd.
Indeed, all media reports up to now say that he went to live there a few weeks after.
 
Chiatos said:
Open your quote to see answers.
Oliver and Karin are very certain that CB was already living in Villa Bianca when MM disappeared on May 3rd.
Indeed, all media reports up to now say that he went to live there a few weeks after.
Click to expand...

I don’t think we do, but do we know the date of CB’s assault on Oliver? The video said they lived with him for six months but that during the altercation Oliver hit him with a bit of metal to get him off the property, then both him and the police told CB not to come back - so I assume this is when both his work and tenancy at Vila Bianca ended?
 
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