OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #55

[molly1255]

ALTERNATIVE SUSPECTS FROM DEFENSE

NOT SOCIAL MEDIA RUMORS HAVE POSTED ALL OF THESE LINKS MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE EVEN IN THE TIMELINE

Wagner family Attorney Clark before arrests:

Pictured, people in laser focus of multiple murder hunt | Daily Mail Online

"...I believe the real answers to the murders lay with drug lords who police have failed to locate..."Mexican cartel" .... "
The Wagners had supplied police with invaluable information to help the investigation.
Why have the authorities not follow up on the leads that the Wagners wanted to give? Is it because the authorities carelessly waited 4-5 months to get back to Billy Wagner?..."

Billy Wagner's current Attorneys Collins and Hayes:

Billy Wagner bond request

"...The families were close friends the State cannot prove otherwise. There have been multiple different suspects other than the Wagners. Multiple different tips that did not lead investigators to the Wagners and even crime scene evidence with a former law enforcement officer's DNA on it.."

Angie and Rita's jail phone calls:

They are at the end of Rita's Revocation Hearing Part One.
One hour and 16 minutes in:

Video Posted in Timeline page 17

"Let me tell you what my attorney said, I'm probably not suppose to say this on here but here's what he said to me."
According to Canepa, Angela goes on to tell Rita the theories her attorney has for the murders that can be used in her trial...(Talk about giving the prosecution a head's up!..Wow..)

Which I think will include other suspects.

This is an aside, but I have to laugh at the bond request wording that Billy was HR's father-in-law. He most certainly was not. There was no legal marriage between JW and HR. They had a relationship and a child.

Also that the families were close friends. I guess this close friendship explains why the W's spied on the R's.

 

[molly1255]

I wonder how Fredericka Wagner will feel when she has to bury her son, daughter in law and grandsons after they're convicted and the death penalty carried out?

Does anyone think she will have any sympathy for Mrs. Geneva Rhoden, who had to bury so many of her loved ones, innocent people massacred by an insane criminal clan?

JMO, wondering what others think.

Still waiting for your link @Cool Cats Cats to the confusing alleged quote at the end of your post.

With as slow as things work, I think it is doubtful that FW will live long enough to bury her loved ones, JMO. As for any sympathy or empathy for GR, doubt it.

 

[Betty P]

This is an aside, but I have to laugh at the bond request wording that Billy was HR's father-in-law. He most certainly was not. There was no legal marriage between JW and HR. They had a relationship and a child.

Also that the families were close friends. I guess this close friendship explains why the W's spied on the R's.

Agree, they weren't even close to being friends. Why would an attorney want to make his client look better by falsely calling him a father in law of one of his murder victims, especially when the father in law apparently witnessed and allowed his son Jake to beat up on his "daughter in law" Hanna Rhoden. I wonder if Jake learned domestic violence from watching his own parents fight? The experts say it's often passed on from one generation to the next, like child molestation.

Neither the defense attorney nor his client have any pride or conscience.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Need a link for that third quote.


ETA: You also forgot to include that your belief that there are other suspects reflects your opinion, not fact.

Waiting for link.... What timeline are you referring to for the quote? Where is the alleged video?

I never said I believe there are other suspects, I only pointed out quotes where the possibility of other suspects has been brought up by various defense attorneys. Whether other suspects will be brought up in court remains to be seen.

How bout I shout it?

IT IS NOT MY OPINION THAT THERE ARE OTHER SUSPECTS LURKING ABOUT...
I BELIEVE THE TRUE SUSPECTS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ARRESTED. HOWEVER, IT IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS WILL BRING UP OTHER SUSPECTS IN COURT. DID THE WAGNER'S PUSH OTHER SUSPECTS AND LEADS ONTO THEIR ATTORNEYS AND AWAY FROM THEMSELVES? YES ABSOLUTELY.

Angela Canepa talks in court about Angie's jail phone calls. I listened to what she said from the video of the hearing posted on YouTube and wrote it out to the best of my ability as a layperson.

Posted here:

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* Page 16

I posted the link to the video here, as well as the time to start the video. In fact you were the one who asked me to post the video which I then did for you:

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* Page 17

I pointed out:

It's at the end of Rita's Revocation Hearing Part One.

ANGIE AND RITA'S PHONE CONVERSATIONS

One hour and 16 minutes in...

 

[Betty P]

I never said I believe there are other suspects, I only pointed out quotes where the possibility of other suspects has been brought up by various defense attorneys. Whether other suspects will be brought up in court remains to be seen.

How bout I shout it?

IT IS NOT MY OPINION THAT THERE ARE OTHER SUSPECTS LURKING ABOUT...
I BELIEVE THE TRUE SUSPECTS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ARRESTED. HOWEVER, IT IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS WILL BRING UP OTHER SUSPECTS IN COURT. DID THE WAGNER'S PUSH OTHER SUSPECTS AND LEADS ONTO THEIR ATTORNEYS AND AWAY FROM THEMSELVES? YES ABSOLUTELY.

Angela Canepa talks in court about Angie's jail phone calls. I listened to what she said from the video of the hearing posted on YouTube and wrote it out to the best of my ability as a layperson.

Posted here:

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* Page 16

I posted the link to the video here, as well as the time to start the video. In fact you were the one who asked me to post the video which I then did for you:

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* Page 17

I pointed out:

It's at the end of Rita's Revocation Hearing Part One.

ANGIE AND RITA'S PHONE CONVERSATIONS

One hour and 16 minutes in...

Thanks for supplying the link. That's a well known speech given by special prosecutor Canepa summarizing the details of many incriminating and illegal phone conversations that took place between Angela Wagner, her mother and several other members of the Wagner family. It was very incriminating and probably led to Rita Newcomb agreeing to a plea agreement to testify against her own family.

But nowhere in that speech does special prosecutor Canepa state or quote any conversation that said there were other suspects in the Rhoden family massacre case, as you implied.

Defense attorney Gerlach was caught in a couple of "untruths" during that hearing, once when Angela Canepa pointed out to the judge that she had not only given Gerlach copies of the audio tapes, she'd provided him with documents summarizing the relevant portions of the phone calls.

JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Have a good night everyone. Justice is coming... hopefully sooner than later.

 

[Betty P]

Have a good night everyone. Justice is coming!!!

Yes, justice for the Rhodens is coming. The Wagner clan will be convicted. You can count on it.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

I never said I believe there are other suspects, I only pointed out quotes where the possibility of other suspects has been brought up by various defense attorneys. Whether other suspects will be brought up in court remains to be seen.

How bout I shout it?

IT IS NOT MY OPINION THAT THERE ARE OTHER SUSPECTS LURKING ABOUT...
I BELIEVE THE TRUE SUSPECTS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ARRESTED. HOWEVER, IT IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS WILL BRING UP OTHER SUSPECTS IN COURT. DID THE WAGNER'S PUSH OTHER SUSPECTS AND LEADS ONTO THEIR ATTORNEYS AND AWAY FROM THEMSELVES? YES ABSOLUTELY.

Angela Canepa talks in court about Angie's jail phone calls. I listened to what she said from the video of the hearing posted on YouTube and wrote it out to the best of my ability as a layperson.

Posted here:

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* Page 16

I posted the link to the video here, as well as the time to start the video. In fact you were the one who asked me to post the video which I then did for you:

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* Page 17

I pointed out:

It's at the end of Rita's Revocation Hearing Part One.

ANGIE AND RITA'S PHONE CONVERSATIONS

One hour and 16 minutes in...

From your post

Angela Wagner to Rita on jail phone call:

"Let me tell you what my attorney said, I'm probably not suppose to say this on here but here's what he said to me."
According to Canepa, Angela goes on to tell Rita the theories her attorney has for the murders that can be used in her trial...(Talk about giving the prosecution a head's up!..Wow..)

Which I think will include other suspects.

BBM

 

[molly1255]

Agree, they weren't even close to being friends. Why would an attorney want to make his client look better by falsely calling him a father in law oaf one of his murder victims, especially when the father in law apparently witnessed and allowed his son Jake to beat up on his "daughter in law" Hanna Rhoden. I wonder if Jake learned domestic violence from watching his own parents fight? The experts say it's often passed on from one generation to the next, like child molestation.

Neither the defense attorney nor his client have any pride or conscience.

JMO

It is a downright lie for the defense attorney to state that BW was HR's father-in-law, IMO. I almost laughed when FW said she considered HR and JW to be married. It doesn't matter what any of the W's may have considered that relationship to be. They were not legally married. They were boyfriend and girlfriend.

I think the prior acts the defense is so concerned about include domestic violence against HR. Highly doubt JW would have gotten away with that in any of the R's homes. HR had two brothers, a Dad and a very protective mother. They would have cleaned his plow if he laid one hand on her in front of them. At the W home, who would have protected HR? No one, IMO. My understanding is also that domestic violence is typically passed from one generation to the next.

 

[molly1255]

I never said I believe there are other suspects, I only pointed out quotes where the possibility of other suspects has been brought up by various defense attorneys. Whether other suspects will be brought up in court remains to be seen.

How bout I shout it?

IT IS NOT MY OPINION THAT THERE ARE OTHER SUSPECTS LURKING ABOUT...
I BELIEVE THE TRUE SUSPECTS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ARRESTED. HOWEVER, IT IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS WILL BRING UP OTHER SUSPECTS IN COURT. DID THE WAGNER'S PUSH OTHER SUSPECTS AND LEADS ONTO THEIR ATTORNEYS AND AWAY FROM THEMSELVES? YES ABSOLUTELY.

Angela Canepa talks in court about Angie's jail phone calls. I listened to what she said from the video of the hearing posted on YouTube and wrote it out to the best of my ability as a layperson.

Posted here:

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* Page 16

I posted the link to the video here, as well as the time to start the video. In fact you were the one who asked me to post the video which I then did for you:

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* Page 17

I pointed out:

It's at the end of Rita's Revocation Hearing Part One.

ANGIE AND RITA'S PHONE CONVERSATIONS

One hour and 16 minutes in...

I believe I understand what you are saying. I did watch and participate on a case on Websleuths a few years ago in which a husband murdered his wife because he thought he was going to collect $1,000,000 in life insurance. The defense paraded out two of the wife's old boyfriends as possibilities to try to create doubt. It was laughable, it was lame and they both also had alibis. Neither had a motive and hadn't even talked to the victim in years. The evidence all pointed at the husband and he was eventually convicted.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks for supplying the link. That's a well known speech given by special prosecutor Canepa summarizing the details of many incriminating and illegal phone conversations that took place between Angela Wagner, her mother and several other members of the Wagner family. It was very incriminating and probably led to Rita Newcomb agreeing to a plea agreement to testify against her own family.

But nowhere in that speech does special prosecutor Canepa state or quote any conversation that said there were other suspects in the Rhoden family massacre case, as you implied.

Defense attorney Gerlach was caught in a couple of "untruths" during that hearing, once when Angela Canepa pointed out to the judge that she had not only given Gerlach copies of the audio tapes, she'd provided him with documents summarizing the relevant portions of the phone calls.

JMO

BBM

No. I never implied any such thing. I never implied that Canepa said that "Angie's attorneys think that there are other suspects." According to Canepa, if you listen to the hearing on video, Canepa says that Angie discussed theories her attorney can use to defend her. She discussed these theories with Rita.

I said "I think" these theories will include other suspects. Saying "I think" is just my opinion and is not me insinuating that this is a truth about the case. I have a right per TOS to give an opinion by saying this is what "I think."

You have a perfect right to say you don't agree with my opinion, as in you don't agree that Angie's attorneys will mention other suspects and I do think they will. Do I know it? No.

 

[Cool Cats]

I believe I understand what you are saying. I did watch and participate on a case on Websleuths a few years ago in which a husband murdered his wife because he thought he was going to collect $1,000,000 in life insurance. The defense paraded out two of the wife's old boyfriends as possibilities to try to create doubt. It was laughable, it was lame and they both also had alibis. Neither had a motive and hadn't even talked to the victim in years. The evidence all pointed at the husband and he was eventually convicted.

Thankx. Yes, definitely other suspects can and do get brought up in a murder trial, even if absurd, as you point out. Angie's attorneys are preparing her defense and to do this they have theories they can use before the jury. These theories were discussed with Angela who in turn discussed them with Rita, per Angela Canepa in court.

To have these theories it stands to reason that they will introduce other possible suspects. If a juror believes someone else might have committed the murders then that might be enough reasonable doubt.

I do not necessarily think the defense attorneys will personally name other suspects, such as

"we think 'Tim Smith' committed the murders"

but they will at least, in my opinion, point a finger towards other groups of people, a finger pointed far away from their clients.

Wouldn't be a good defense to tell the jury your client didn't participate in any murders but you can't think of anyone else who might have done it. To me, that would make the defendant look guilty.

...2 Cents Only...

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Thankx. Yes, definitely other suspects can and do get brought up in a murder trial, even if absurd, as you point out. Angie's attorneys are preparing her defense and to do this they have theories they can use before the jury. These theories were discussed with Angela who in turn discussed them with Rita, per Angela Canepa in court.

To have these theories it stands to reason that they will introduce other possible suspects. If a juror believes someone else might have committed the murders then that might be enough reasonable doubt.

I do not necessarily think the defense attorneys will personally name other suspects, such as

"we think 'Tim Smith' committed the murders"

but they will at least, in my opinion, point a finger towards other groups of people, a finger pointed far away from their clients.

I think to discuss theories means to discuss other ways the murders could have taken place - which includes other suspects such as the Mexican Cartel for example. Then reasons could be argued for why it's the Cartel who is guilty and not Jake/GW3/Gw4/Angela.

When the defense gives their opening statements, hopefully by next year, I think they will include theories as to who else besides their clients committed murder. If Angie's attorneys get up in court and say "my client is innocent of these heinous crimes" that means someone else did it but who? Who do they think?

Wouldn't be a good defense to tell the jury your client didn't participate in any murders but you can't think of anyone else who might have done it instead.

...2 Cents Only...

CC
I really think there is another suspect and he around the same age as the two younger brothers, I think he is in on the murders, JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember JM stating that directly, that he didn't want to see his niece like that. I thought it was his wife who told that to reporters.

Ok, found a link....

إخطار إعادة التوجيه

"He could hear the baby crying and he backed up out of there," said his wife, April Manley, in a separate interview describing what her husband told her. "He didn't want to find his niece like that."

Here is a post from way back to 27

 

[Betty P]

BBM

No. I never implied any such thing. I never implied that Canepa said that "Angie's attorneys think that there are other suspects." According to Canepa, if you listen to the hearing on video, Canepa says that Angie discussed theories her attorney can use to defend her. She discussed these theories with Rita.

I said "I think" these theories will include other suspects. Saying "I think" is just my opinion and is not me insinuating that this is a truth about the case. I have a right per TOS to give an opinion by saying this is what "I think."

You have a perfect right to say you don't agree with my opinion, as in you don't agree that Angie's attorneys will mention other suspects and I do think they will. Do I know it? No.

You're right, I strongly disagree with your opinion on this matter. Your ongoing attempts to bring up other "suspects" in a fully investigated case with a mountain of evidence shortly before the trials begin is duly noted, as is what appears to be your sympathy with the Wagner clan. JMO.

 

[Betty P]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember JM stating that directly, that he didn't want to see his niece like that. I thought it was his wife who told that to reporters.

Ok, found a link....

إخطار إعادة التوجيه

"He could hear the baby crying and he backed up out of there," said his wife, April Manley, in a separate interview describing what her husband told her. "He didn't want to find his niece like that."

Here is a post from way back to 27

Please don't tell me y'all are going to try to blame this on the Manleys again. Haven't they suffered enough? It's cruel and inhuman, all for a little entertainment on social media?
Really?

Let's see, what's next? The bedbugs? The red truck? The dogs? That the Rhoden family killed themselves and staged it to look like murders? They had it coming, right?

Do us all a favor and save it for the defense counsel.

 

[molly1255]

Thankx. Yes, definitely other suspects can and do get brought up in a murder trial, even if absurd, as you point out. Angie's attorneys are preparing her defense and to do this they have theories they can use before the jury. These theories were discussed with Angela who in turn discussed them with Rita, per Angela Canepa in court.

To have these theories it stands to reason that they will introduce other possible suspects. If a juror believes someone else might have committed the murders then that might be enough reasonable doubt.

I do not necessarily think the defense attorneys will personally name other suspects, such as

"we think 'Tim Smith' committed the murders"

but they will at least, in my opinion, point a finger towards other groups of people, a finger pointed far away from their clients.

Wouldn't be a good defense to tell the jury your client didn't participate in any murders but you can't think of anyone else who might have done it. To me, that would make the defendant look guilty.

...2 Cents Only...

This is JMO, but from the prosecution's standpoint, the accused are the "suspects" and that is the W4.

I agree it stands to reason that the defense may try to introduce other theories about what happened that include people other than the Wag's.

 

[Dudly]

BBM

Both Billy's attorneys before and after arrests were/are hell bent on emphasizing suspects Billy has given them. If these "mystery suspects" are mentioned at trial it could implicate the victims in nebulous practices but I don't think the jury of his peers will buy into it. They will see through the charade.

LE said there were no other suspects after the arrests. Do you think they were wrong?

 

[Betty P]

This is JMO, but from the prosecution's standpoint, the accused are the "suspects" and that is the W4.

I agree it stands to reason that the defense may try to introduce other theories about what happened that include people other than the Wag's.

Good point, the "suspects" in this case are the Wagner clan, DNA, wiretapped phone calls, security cam video, Walmart shoes, home made silencer and all.

What kind of people defend murderers like that? What kind of people would work to taint a jury pool by spreading a lot of lies on social media prior to the trial? Pretty low scum, if you ask me. Can you imagine what would happen if they got their wish and the Wags were turned loose on the community? A LOT of people would end up dead.

I wonder if they would go after the little children who survived the massacre of their parents? Very likely, JMO. These people are animals and the only lives they value are their own.

I wish special prosecutor Canepa had given more details in pre-trial about the illegal conversations that took place between Rita Newcomb and her daughter Angela. In all those hours of conversation, I'm sure she revealed a lot about the murders, how they were planned, etc. RN gave us a big hint when she made the decision to turn against her family and cooperate with the prosecution. She said lying to defend the Wagners was wrong, "not a Christian thing to do".

I agree, lying to defend the Wagners is immoral and evil. All JMO and not referencing anyone in particular. The Wags attorneys are just doing their job and using all the tools they can to set their clients free, though I wonder if there isn't some criminal organization behind the scenes who is trying to protect the Wagner clan for their own selfish reasons.

All JMO of course.

 

[Dudly]

You know as well as anyone, all it takes is planting a seed of doubt in the mind of one juror to allow the Wagners to walk free.

As with the legendary Racehorse Haynes, defense attorneys are allowed to lie about a lot of things. They don't have to prove any cockamamie theories or phantom suspects they toss out. It's called "pleading in the alternative" when the defense attorney fabricates any number of reasons why his client isn't guilty without having to prove any of them.

You just gave a good example of that in your post up above.

The Defense doesn’t have the burden of proving not guilty. All they need to do is put out any theories, no matter how ridiculous, to influence one juror to not vote guilty.