Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

[KiwiNZ]

My understanding is that the dentist interviewed in the podcast was some random parent of a child in her class. It is one of the weird tangents that the podcast goes on, like the whole irrelevant episode about Hermes FarEasternShining.

The man interviewed is not the dentist who signed the back of her passport photos. Apparently the police know who this person is (as they just asked the passport office). This is information that they did not disclose to Sally but will have to divulge at the forthcoming coronial inquiry. How it is even known that this person is a dentist I am not sure of - maybe she told that much to someone at the time.

good point how did Sally find out it was a dentist whom signed the passport photo.

 

[KiwiNZ]

could the person whom signed the passport photo have just been a Justice of the Peace, that happened to be a dentist ? You wouldn't need to explain yourself as to why the name change if the JP was just signing your passport photo and it matched your ID or change of name paper work. If I needed someone to sign something official that I didn't want my friends or family to witness I would use a JP.

 

[Meligator]

could the person whom signed the passport photo have just been a Justice of the Peace, that happened to be a dentist ? You wouldn't need to explain yourself as to why the name change if the JP was just signing your passport photo and it matched your ID or change of name paper work. If I needed someone to sign something official that I didn't want my friends or family to witness I would use a JP.

possible, but I believe the police did interview the dentist...would the contents of an interview be redacted if it was a JP saying telling police he was just a witness with no other connection?

 

[Meligator]

could the person whom signed the passport photo have just been a Justice of the Peace, that happened to be a dentist ? You wouldn't need to explain yourself as to why the name change if the JP was just signing your passport photo and it matched your ID or change of name paper work. If I needed someone to sign something official that I didn't want my friends or family to witness I would use a JP.

possible, but I believe the police did interview the dentist...would the contents of an interview be redacted if it was a JP saying telling police he was just a witness with no other connection?

Would a conman use his real name in a lonely hearts advert? In days before the Internet became extensive why would he worry any law enforcement would connect the two especially when it probably wasn’t a plot to ensnare a vulnerable lady back in 1994 when it was published. That chance encounter with Marion probably came later.

Using his own name certainly doesn’t seem very covert for a conman, I agree. Either would convincing your target to take on your surname. The only thing I can possibly think of a rationale is that if Marion is wiring money from Aus to Lux, would FR be able to access that money because of the common first initial/last name?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Maybe the dentist who signed it was a JP

 

[sunnynz]

Something that has always stuck with me is when Sally & team visit Fernand in Luxembourg, Fernand makes a comment to the effect that if Florabella was in Luxembourg, she would be registered. Maybe I’m misinterpreting, but I’m the context of his other statements (never been to Australia, been with my partner 40 years) the comment about registering comes across as him trying to provide additional evidence that Marion isn’t in Luxembourg (Kinda like saying she’s not here—she’s not even registered). Of course if he doesn’t know anything about her, he wouldn’t know if she is registered or not.

Obviously, he could have just offered the registration comment in an attempt to help them with their investigation— but he doesn’t seem helpful in any other way.

that’s a really interesting thing to note! Do you know his actual wording? Did he say she wasn’t registered or just that if she were in Luxembourg then she would be? If it’s the former then that’s really REALLY interesting.

 

[UpAllNight2]

could the person whom signed the passport photo have just been a Justice of the Peace, that happened to be a dentist ? You wouldn't need to explain yourself as to why the name change if the JP was just signing your passport photo and it matched your ID or change of name paper work. If I needed someone to sign something official that I didn't want my friends or family to witness I would use a JP.

The person who signs your photos needs to have known you for a period of time- it doesn't have to be a JP. I forget how long they need to have known you for - a year or two years. Marion probably would have had to explain the name change to some extent, but he is not a personal friend so wouldn't ask too many questions and she wouldn't have to justify herself too hard.

She obviously deliberately chose him for that particular reason.

 

[UpAllNight2]

Some questions..

1) Can anyone unravel for me Marion's shipping container of antique furniture and valuable paintings? My understanding is that nobody knew where it was stored and nobody knows what has happened to them.
Is that a correct understanding?

If so, it seems odd that nobody rang around storage facilities. It couldn't be too far away.

2) Was the lamp that Sally saw in Fernand Remakel's house the SAME as her mother's or just SIMILAR?

I don't agree with Sally that Laura Ashley lamps are "a dime a dozen". It is popular in the UK to some extent but not on the Continent. If it is THE SAME lamp, then I think that could be quite a clue....

Would appreciate any thoughts on the above.

 

[sunnybree]

Some questions..

1) Can anyone unravel for me Marion's shipping container of antique furniture and valuable paintings? My understanding is that nobody knew where it was stored and nobody knows what has happened to them.
Is that a correct understanding?

If so, it seems odd that nobody rang around storage facilities. It couldn't be too far away.

2) Was the lamp that Sally saw in Fernand Remakel's house the SAME as her mother's or just SIMILAR?

I don't agree with Sally that Laura Ashley lamps are "a dime a dozen". It is popular in the UK to some extent but not on the Continent. If it is THE SAME lamp, then I think that could be quite a clue....

Would appreciate any thoughts on the above.

Apparently a similar lamp, but not the same one. I think this was discussed a few pages ago. Apparently Sally clarified this on Facebook.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Some questions..

1) Can anyone unravel for me Marion's shipping container of antique furniture and valuable paintings? My understanding is that nobody knew where it was stored and nobody knows what has happened to them.
Is that a correct understanding?

If so, it seems odd that nobody rang around storage facilities. It couldn't be too far away.

2) Was the lamp that Sally saw in Fernand Remakel's house the SAME as her mother's or just SIMILAR?

I don't agree with Sally that Laura Ashley lamps are "a dime a dozen". It is popular in the UK to some extent but not on the Continent. If it is THE SAME lamp, then I think that could be quite a clue....

Would appreciate any thoughts on the above.

1.i had the same question re shipping container, it’s the first thing I would have tracked down, that and the travel agent and rental cars from the airport. However listening back over the podcast today it was a few years later ( not sure how many) that Sally tried to track it down, she said because everyone at the time was updating from paper to computer they didn’t have records from that year or they had no record of the container. I had a look on trove ( historical newspapers) to see if any shipping container were auction but could not find nothing but may be worth looking in the 1998 newspapers if anyone has access to the Queensland library.

2. The lamp was an off the cuff comment Sally made on the programme, she has since confirmed it was not the same just a similar style lamp.

 

[UpAllNight2]

possible, but I believe the police did interview the dentist...would the contents of an interview be redacted if it was a JP saying telling police he was just a witness with no other connection?


Using his own name certainly doesn’t seem very covert for a conman, I agree. Either would convincing your target to take on your surname. The only thing I can possibly think of a rationale is that if Marion is wiring money from Aus to Lux, would FR be able to access that money because of the common first initial/last name?

The person who found the advertisement did so through Trove. Who would know that Trove would be a "thing" in 2020?

In any case, he might not have started as a conman - that might have developed later.

I notice that Monsieur Remakel lodged a new invention for a vacuum cleaner hose in 1997. He would have been a busy man if he was doing that and also travelling all over the globe with Marion!!

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Marion might not be registered in Luxembourg as she might have been held captive in Holland or Belgium for the last 23 years.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

The dentist interviewed on the podcast clearly had a soft spot for Marion and knew her well. I’m still not convinced he isn’t the guy who signed the passport photo and/or witnessed the Deed Poll.

 

[Meligator]

that’s a really interesting thing to note! Do you know his actual wording? Did he say she wasn’t registered or just that if she were in Luxembourg then she would be? If it’s the former then that’s really REALLY interesting.

Well actually the statement is made by Brian translating what FR says, so I don’t know how precise the translation is. He doesn’t say that she isn’t registered...just says that if she were in Lux she would be registered.

 

[sunnynz]

Well actually the statement is made by Brian translating what FR says, so I don’t know how precise the translation is. He doesn’t say that she isn’t registered...just says that if she were in Lux she would be registered.

Ah ok. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Loobyloo2]

I'd like to make a few observations:

I worked at a similar school to TSS. They are toxic work environments. I was mercilessly bullied and so were my co-workers for years. I met people who had worked there years prior to me and they were still very traumatized. My family couldn't relate at all so I found no comfort there. I found it in a co-worker and I would have given up EVERYTHING for him at the time. My sense of self and reality were completely skewed. If he asked me at any point during that period to run off secretly together to start a new life I would have.

The question to me is why was Marion withdrawing the cash from Byron Bay? She couldn't stuff a suitcase with it. She must have been stashing into another account, perhaps in a partner's name. The police might be able to track deposits of $5,000 in cash at other banks in the area.

If the Remakel in Lennox Head was real, there will be a footprint of this person. A clue was given in the podcast that someone remembers that name from a payroll. He'll therefore have a bank account, superannuation and an ATO record.

All we are left with is the coronial inquest, which I hope will happen soon.[/QUOT

 

[Loobyloo2]

Talking of TSS do we know if Luke Glover was in the RAF prior to working at TSS. Someone is looking for a Christopher Cook and Luke Glover on rafweb.org

 

[Amy74]

I think (based on nothing but my own opinion, lol) that Marion had met the Remakel person, whomever he may be, and thought the cover of a year long trip would be a good way to have a trial relationship without the possible judgement of others. If the marriage worked out, great; if not, change her name back, return to Australia, and no one is the wiser. Unfortunately, it seems that whomever she married had different plans. I don't think she intended to be missing forever and she was harmed after coming back to withdraw the money from her accounts. I don't think she had planned to come back to Australia, but the name change threw a wrench in withdrawing money any other way, so she had to return to Australia and met her demise shortly after her accounts were drained.

 

[Loobyloo2]

I have been enjoying reading The Amateur Tramp on the life of Aidan de Bune (alias Herbert Charles Cull) I have also been reading two of his books Saul and the spinster and The unlawful adventure. It seems that Marion Barter may read his books (although his biography was published more recently) and almost copied him in some ways. It is really strange and uncanny. Herbert Charles Cull went missing and sent a letter to his family in the UK beforehand. He then ended up on the missing persons of Australia. Marion postcards to her family and went missing after changing her name to Florabella Natalia Remakel. Just like R.S.Allerson the character in De Bune's book "The unlawful adventure" it was a very rare name in Australia. In fact there was only one Remakel in the whole of Australia in a lonely hearts advert Fernand Nicolas Marie Ernest Remakel is the full name. The first three letters could also spell out another name. Florabella Natalia Marion! In his book "Saul and the spinster" De Bune describes the place Florabella and there are several interesting quotes including "Life is always far to short for the middle aged to remake themselves" I think Marion remade herself.

 

[Loobyloo2]

There are plenty of other big banks from my understanding like the National bank of Australia. It is true that the police might be able to track deposits of $5,000 in cash at other banks in the area.