Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

[Tricia]

At 2 pm Eastern today we will discuss the latest in the Vallow case. Be sure and join us.

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[tripleC]

I’m so happy she came forward and is willing to testify.

Other than that, I disagree that she was fooled hook, line and sinker.

I’n not interested in her pity party.

ETA: This is all about two little children who were murdered.

I have no sympathy for all the adults who played a part by being in some cult like following. My sympathies are with Tylee and JJ and Tammy and Charles.

But yesterday post after post was about MG. She isn't the one that killed them, but she was the one being flailed for someone else's crimes. The spotlight, as you said, needs to be on the children, the victims, and the perpetrators. JMO

Agree wholeheartedly. I have backed out of this thread several times because of the crucifixion of MG, the derogatory comments about attorneys in CD's prelim and a slew of other accusations and judgments. I love this site for the commentary, but this stuff does nothing to help a case...nothing.

I realize my post yesterday about her acting like Nates co-host and comparing her voice to Ellen isn't constructive. My post today was that the phone call added to my suspicion that MG knew/knows more than what she lets on to people outside their group. When LV realized MG could be recording for the police, she made sure to throw in the "everything you know" comment. That should've been MGs chance to clear her name of any involvement. Instead she chose to defend DW. That said, I am glad she chose to work with the police.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

I just had a thought, lets say for argument sake that CV did try and take a bat to AC, one if you are really trying to harm someone are you just going to stand in the living room while someone else go to the bedroom to retrieve a gun? And let's say that CV did just stand in the living room, I am sure when he say AC walking ward him he would have raised to bat above his head in order to protect himself from AC now we have 3 shots that hit CV was there blood on the bat? Shooting someone 3 times is not a clean killing. I have not seen and blowback or spatter while LE is searching the home, I want to know if there is blood on that bat, I don't see someone holding a Bat getting shot three times and no blood on the bat.

Even if CV did swing the bat (imo that’s a lie), then AC would have been knocked down and unconscious (CV played ball and did you see how fit he was compared to AC). Not to mention, when I was in 4th grade I had a friend who played baseball and was in a coma for weeks and needed a metal plate because he was hit with a baseball bat during warmups. If a 4th grader can cause that kind of damage then I couldn’t imagine what a fit adult could do.

I’ll have to rewatch the footage of the police offer going through the home again. But I didn’t see much sign of a struggle and I don’t recall seeing any splatter.

All jmo moo

 

[tripleC]

DBM duplicate

 

[Monger]

I strongly believe a plea deal is on the table. First of all, when the Casey Anthony case started, the world was shocked a mother would not report her toddler missing after a month. We are over that shock. Just speaking of Lori, she claimed they were fine knowing full well they were dead. Then the heinous way they were found leads us to all kinds of horrible conclusions of their last moments. I believe if there was ever a chance for the death penalty, this is it. The only woman on Idaho's death row is a woman who killed her husband and kids by setting their house on fire for insurance money. As horrible as that was, it was not up close and personal. She did not tape them up, burn them, dismember them or whatever may be discussed as a possibility at trial even if not true. Could the actual act of death be at someone else's hands? Sure. But nobody wants to let a mother off for letting that happen. Even after the fact instead of regret, second thoughts, or even remorse, she's in Hawaii with her new husband, not a care in the world. If, in an alternate universe Lori had nothing to do with the death of her kids, she sure has not shown that she is grieving for them. None of the Cox family has chimed in that they talk to Lori daily and she is beside herself with grief. Closing arguments should include this question, "If the death penalty was not for Lori Daybell, who is it for?" JMO

Good point! In my mind there is no death penalty on the table currently, as murder charges haven't been laid yet. I'm not sure what they could offer her currently but I could see that once those charges are laid they could take death off the table and offer life instead. Very good point! Maybe if she agrees to cooperate in the other investigation. Interesting.

 

[GiGi4277]

Legal question:

I think I remember years ago reading that the state can agree to pay a private attorney as a public defender in certain cases, in a situation where the money is gone but the state doesn't want the defendant to have to start over. Does anyone know if this is correct or am i misremembering? TIA!

further

It seems incredibly weird that there’s so much blame for MG here and almost no blame for the AZ cops.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[Nikynoo]

DBM fixing broken quote

 

[Nikynoo]

Even if CV did swing the bat (imo that’s a lie), then AC would have been knocked down and unconscious (CV played ball and did you see how fit he was compared to AC). Not to mention, when I was in 4th grade I had a friend who played baseball and was in a coma for weeks and needed a metal plate because he was hit with a baseball bat during warmups. If a 4th grader can cause that kind of damage then I couldn’t imagine what a fit adult could do.

I’ll have to rewatch the footage of the police offer going through the home again. But I didn’t see much sign of a struggle and I don’t recall seeing any splatter.

All jmo moo

There wasn't any, mainly because the room was empty of furniture. To me, the placement of CV's body was very strange for someone who had been shot multiple times. I do hope that something comes out of the investigation into Charles' death, even if their findings confirm the self defence claim, I would hope that a proper investigation is carried out and the findings made public.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

It seems incredibly weird that there’s so much blame for MG here and almost no blame for the AZ cops.

Don’t get me wrong, the AZ police did not handle CV murder correctly. So many missteps there. I think there may be some disciplinary actions from higher up in law enforcement or even some investigation into certain officers.

I don’t have enough information about MG to make a full judgement on her. I think it’s brave she came forward, although the lying is an issue for me. But I fully believe from what I’ve seen that she feels awful for the kids not being found alive.

All jmo moo

 

[Nikynoo]

Legal question:

I think I remember years ago reading that the state can agree to pay a private attorney as a public defender in certain cases, in a situation where the money is gone but the state doesn't want the defendant to have to start over. Does anyone know if this is correct or am i misremembering? TIA!


My thoughts exactly!

I am not a US lawyer, but have followed several US cases. I seem to recall that in the children case in california where both parents were charged with neglect and false imprisonment of their 12 (?) children, one parent had a PD and the other had an attorney (private) appointed by the courrt. I believe that this was believe because of conflict if the PD office represented both. I also understand that the court may appoint a private attorney if there is a lack of resource in the PD office. In these instances the private attorney is paid by the court. I am not sure whether any rules around this are different from state to state.

 

[Nikynoo]

Quote snipped for focus.

I'm not hopeful at all of a conviction. Even a minimally qualified defense attorney would be capable of putting the Chandler PD on trial and ripping them to shreds for their behavior at the crime scene. And then follow up with the inevitable retired FBI agent who goes through LE's behavior, item by item and action by action, and enumerates their errors. Remember, the crime scene was majorly contaminated by the police themselves.

A prosecution argument of "Yes, we did everything wrong the first time around but this time we got it right." is a tough sell. I would not be surprised to learn of significant pushback against indictment by the Chandler PD owing to the embarrassment factor.

The only hope I see is ironclad electronic evidence, like a message from Lori to Alex congratulating him on his marksmanship. Without that, I don't see this as a slam dunk at all.

MOO.

Maybe conspiracy?

 

[Hatfield]

I realize my post yesterday about her acting like Nates co-host and comparing her voice to Ellen isn't constructive. My post today was that the phone call added to my suspicion that MG knew/knows more than what she lets on to people outside their group. When LV realized MG could be recording for the police, she made sure to throw in the "everything you know" comment. That should've been MGs chance to clear her name of any involvement. Instead she chose to defend DW. That said, I am glad she chose to work with the police.

JMO
One of my main beefs with MG is she continues to "fib" and downplay her knowledge of the events from watching all her interviews. It started back with the very first interview we saw her make with the media and it has continued. Not outright lies but definitely stretching the truth about how much she knew what was happening around her.

I am thankful she is cooperating now and will be a key witness but she needs to be totally honest and testify honestly with the truth and nothing but the truth, and not pretend she was oblivious to what was going on around her.

We can totally forgive her for being duped by those two fools but she needs to own that, admit that, and admit to herself that is what happened rather than trying to continue to stretch the truth which is what she is doing in some of the interviews.

That is where I am struggling with her. She needs to be very careful to testify 100% honestly or it will hurt the case. She did good in Chad's preliminary hearing. Hopefully she will do fine during the real trials too.
All JMO of course.

 

[Diddian]

It’s no secret I think Chandler PD’s “investigation” was deplorable and had they done their job at the time of CV’s death JJ, Tylee and possibly Tammy would all be alive today.

I’m glad to hear they now plan to recommend prosecution but remember they originally recommended there be no prosecution. That tells me our suspicions that key evidence was ignored (gunpowder tests on LV, bullet trajectory analyses, blood spatter, etc) were founded. I hope there are enough pieces of evidence available at this late date to lead to a guilty verdict. If I were the prosecutor assigned to this case I would be absolutely livid at the evidence that should be available but isn’t.

Would you mind pointing me toward the source of the original recommendation that there be no prosecution? Perhaps I started following this too late to have seen it. I was only aware that investigators kept saying the investigation was ongoing.

Was the investigation stopped and no prosecution recommended in summer 2019 and then it was reopened once the activities in Rexburg surfaced?

 

[CSIDreamer]

I agree and thank you.

We are all passionate about this case.
And opinionated.

We are all passionately opinionated lol.

 

[Nikynoo]

"If the death penalty was not for Lori Daybell, who is it for?" JMO

SBM for focus. I'm not usually one for the DP. I prefer that those who commit such crimes, spend their remaining days having a deja vu moment, every single morning when they awake.
However, as this case has unfolded and more information comes to light, I have changed my mind. The tipping point? Not Tylee, but JJ, and the amount of duct tape used. In addition, I believe it has been said that Lori believes she cannot die. I would like to see her realise that she can. No DP for Chad, but definiately DP for Lori.

 

[Chelly]

Does anyone think Lori and Means could place blame for the murders entirely on Chad and Alex and sound convincing to a jury?

 

[Nikynoo]

Thanks to everyone for all the explanations on things. It is very helpful to me in this case.

One thing I just noticed about MG's statement here if this is accurately transcribed from the taped phone call. Notice what she says and how she phrased this to LV.

Melanie Gibb
“Yeah. Okay, I hope, wow. I hope he’s okay. I hope you guys are okay. I did have a question. I asked Al at one point, your brother if I wanted to know, you know, like where he was? And he said, I did not want to know and that he could not be found. So what does that mean?”

She knew something bad happened.
Her actual question to Alex probably was like this:
"Hey Alex, do I really want to know what happened to JJ?" She knew it was bad.

This is the sort of thing why some of us are not too fond of MG. She knew and yet now is trying to claim ignorance of the whole thing. JMO

I can see where you are coming from. If MG had lived in Rexburg too, I may have agreed with you. From what I have seen so far, IMO, the penny dropped sometime around Nov 26th and MG probably called AlC to confirm her suspicions. I'm really interested in when that call to AlC was and if it was recorded. I am also intested in Alc's phone records from the 8th Dec until his death.

Whilst MGs involvement with the 'group' is unpalatable, I do believe that there was a high probability that Lori and Chad may have got away and the children may never have been found, and it is clear to me, that LE has relied on MG for information on numerous occasions. This doesn't make her a 'star', she is doing what a decent person would do and I think she should be applauded for that. Nowadays, there are not many 'decent' people around

 

[Nikynoo]

Does anyone think Lori and Means could place blame for the murders entirely on Chad and Alex and sound convincing to a jury?

In a word, No.

 

[Hatfield]

I can see where you are coming from. If MG had lived in Rexburg too, I may have agreed with you. From what I have seen so far, IMO, the penny dropped sometime around Nov 26th and MG probably called AlC to confirm her suspicions. I'm really interested in when that call to AlC was and if it was recorded. I am also intested in Alc's phone records from the 8th Dec until his death.

Whilst MGs involvement with the 'group' is unpalatable, I do believe that there was a high probability that Lori and Chad may have got away and the children may never have been found, and it is clear to me, that LE has relied on MG for information on numerous occasions. This doesn't make her a 'star', she is doing what a decent person would do and I think she should be applauded for that. Nowadays, there are not many 'decent' people around

Good points.

Im definitely thankful she is cooperating now.

Its much better than being forced to testify with supoena as a hostile witness that would say "i dont remember" to all the questions.

And she is already much better than the rodeo queen that testified to help get Patrick Frazee convicted. That was a hard pill to swallow in that case.

 

[Colorado303]

Would you mind pointing me toward the source of the original recommendation that there be no prosecution? Perhaps I started following this too late to have seen it. I was only aware that investigators kept saying the investigation was ongoing.

Was the investigation stopped and no prosecution recommended in summer 2019 and then it was reopened once the activities in Rexburg surfaced?

I will look and try to find it. Way back when the kids were first discovered missing Chandler PD indicated the case was still open only because of the missing kids, which never made any sense to me. It was then that they said they found CVs death was self defense and they were not recommending prosecution.

I’m not great at searching so if anyone else gets their hands on that statement before me, feel free to link it. Thanks!