Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #53

[indicolite22]

I think all calls go through the jail system. I seem to recall its an app. The court hearing where the chad and lori call was broadcast is a good example, I think its called CellMate - CellMate® Secure, Smart Mobile Device - Lattice Inc

Nate Eaton tweeted that they can also use a GettingOut app to text with people outside of jail. The app use is not free, of course.

https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow/status/1303474250695585792

 

[lacegrl130]

i agree at the end of the day what disorder isnt necessarily that important. I was initially thinking Folie a deux but all the studies I read involved people that were isolated from the outside world and once split up both parties commonly stopped believing in the shared delusion. I ruled it out because of how much interaction CD and LV seemed to have with the people around them. I would honestly love to read any research you found, its such an odd, interesting, and under studied form of psychosis.

For me I think it comes down to whether CD and LV actually believed in the future that CD was preaching or if it was just the lie they used to justify their horrible behavior and I can honestly say I switch back and forth on that

Chad had to know that his visions were bogus. He had to know Grandma Lucille was a device he used to manipulate. Now, maybe Lori believed his so called visions. But, ultimately, I think Chad knows he is a fraud. He found a device that worked on his family to control them and used it like a cudgel on poor Tammy. The day they were digging up those children he knew manipulating the situation was out of his control. I think he now believes JP can manipulate the legal system, so he may be feeling more in control again, but right at the moment in June when they found those remains in his backyard, he knew his jig was up.

 

[lacegrl130]

DBM

 

[lacegrl130]

Dbm

 

[Forever Young]

<snipped for focus>

Chad had to know that his visions were bogus. He had to know Grandma Lucille was a device he used to manipulate. Now, maybe Lori believed his so called visions. But, ultimately, I think Chad knows he is a fraud. He found a device that worked on his family to control them and used it like a cudgel on poor Tammy.

This incident has been brought up numerous times as a manipulative tactic, and if I may "tease it apart", these are my thoughts:

1. Again, this was culturally supported by LDS belief that ancestors are just beyond "the veil" and can communicate with loved ones. A story was related to Chad by his grandfather of a dead ancestor appearing before him to give counsel. This is something that I have to wonder if Tammy would have "believed" if she, too, had not been raised from childhood to believe that this kind of thing was possible.

2. What possible reason would Chad have for not wanting Tammy to play Frontierville (or whatever it was)? Well, I think we all know that these games are addicting, mind numbing, and accomplish nothing but wasting time. Tammy herself surely knew that.

3. To me, this was not really used "like a cudgel". It was a gentle reminder that you do not get brownie points in heaven for playing video games, but you do for tracing your ancestry and the subsequent proxy baptism for any of those who were not baptized into the Mormon church. What would Grandma think?

I will add that those who use something to control like a cudgel do not need dead ancestors to help them out. Usually their word and subsequent rage is enough. IMO

 

[Forever Young]

The account from the anonymous person who was in a cell next to LV is interesting. If LV really said that God doesn't judge her so no one else should, it indicates to me that LV is still in the brainwashed state of believing she didn't kill her children, but rather, she killed their former bodies that were inhabited by dark spirits that pushed her real childrens' spirits out.

It's just so convoluted. But, it sounds as though she had quite a bit of access to Chad back then via phone, and I'm guessing that the two of them had a whole lot of time in Hawaii to get their stories straight.

I'm starting to think they really won't be convicted of murder because it's all going to be dumped on Alex.

But it does not explain why, after Alex was dead and gone, that Lori did not report that she had lost track of where her children were, even if she claims to believe that Alex had them, or he was the only one who knew where they were.

 

[Forever Young]

There's no way of knowing the details. If he told women that they were married in a previous life and that his wife was not meant to live for much longer, that certainly pointed in a certain direction. One husband allegedly threatened to expose Chad for grooming his wife, so he backed off. Obviously that didn't happen with Lori. I wonder if Charles ever confronted Chad.

Yes, and I wonder who this other woman in Arizona with the threatening husband is? She should be on a witness list somewhere.

 

[ivegotthemic]

But it does not explain why, after Alex was dead and gone, that Lori did not report that she had lost track of where her children were, even if she claims to believe that Alex had them, or he was the only one who knew where they were.

and dont forget she also made no effort to find them "after she learned of their disappearance"

 

[Forever Young]

Don't you love how men who are cheating rabidly on their wives always complain about them being unreasonably jealous?

Collateral damage when a multiple wife is all that is holding you back from exaltation in the Celestial kingdom.

 

[lacegrl130]

<snipped for focus>

This incident has been brought up numerous times as a manipulative tactic, and if I may "tease it apart", these are my thoughts:

1. Again, this was culturally supported by LDS belief that ancestors are just beyond "the veil" and can communicate with loved ones. A story was related to Chad by his grandfather of a dead ancestor appearing before him to give counsel. This is something that I have to wonder if Tammy would have "believed" if she, too, had not been raised from childhood to believe that this kind of thing was possible.

2. What possible reason would Chad have for not wanting Tammy to play Frontierville (or whatever it was)? Well, I think we all know that these games are addicting, mind numbing, and accomplish nothing but wasting time. Tammy herself surely knew that.

3. To me, this was not really used "like a cudgel". It was a gentle reminder that you do not get brownie points in heaven for playing video games, but you do for tracing your ancestry and the subsequent proxy baptism for any of those who were not baptized into the Mormon church. What would Grandma think?

I will add that those who use something to control like a cudgel do not need dead ancestors to help them out. Usually their word and subsequent rage is enough. IMO

Yes, I understand your insights and still think that in-spite of LDS traditions regarding deceased relatives, Chad exploited this honored tradition to manipulate and to shame. There are many people who play games and do not overuse or abuse the fun and relaxation they derive from the games so I do not agree with the blanket assessment of the games being mind numbing. I still like my cudgel analogy. But that’s just my opinion. Appreciate your insights thanks so much!

 

[nyvictoria]

Dunno. But I do think that LVD is a vindictive "B". It strikes me as odd that her atty is visiting with her almost daily from the beginning (haven't heard an update in the last couple of weeks though) as they didn't have (per their own filing) much of the evidence to discuss yet. Why meeting so much prior to the prosecution evidence being turned in? It's not like they had to discuss strategy for a trial yet since they didn't have the information yet?

My thinking is that Lori perhaps would intentionally bleed Chad's monies on purpose if she was angry with him. Yet all the while, putting on her Jolly Rancher face in public, and then backing out of the last appearance where she would have been side by side screen with Chad.

It was enlightening, if true, that she spent so much time on the phone with CR when she first returned to the states. MOO.

Also, how does it work with earbuds/phone discussion by Ms. "Cook" in that jail. With you @JolietJake . I'm not understanding that at all. It can't be that she has access to a normal cell phone in a jail. I may have missed such discussion as even ear buds into a jail approved phone doesn't make sense. TIA.

Inmates may be able to rent a tablet or other device and earbuds to call, text or email people on an approved list.

The question of who is funding Lori is an interesting one. I think it might still be Chad. He may want to keep her happy and quiet for the time being. It could be Melani, Janis or Summer. I don’t think Colby would help her at all now that he knows the kids are dead and where they were found. And if Melani is smart, she’s putting money aside for her own lawyers. That leaves her mother, who helped create the monster, or her sister.

 

[indicolite22]

<snipped for focus>

This incident has been brought up numerous times as a manipulative tactic, and if I may "tease it apart", these are my thoughts:

1. Again, this was culturally supported by LDS belief that ancestors are just beyond "the veil" and can communicate with loved ones. A story was related to Chad by his grandfather of a dead ancestor appearing before him to give counsel. This is something that I have to wonder if Tammy would have "believed" if she, too, had not been raised from childhood to believe that this kind of thing was possible.

2. What possible reason would Chad have for not wanting Tammy to play Frontierville (or whatever it was)? Well, I think we all know that these games are addicting, mind numbing, and accomplish nothing but wasting time. Tammy herself surely knew that.

3. To me, this was not really used "like a cudgel". It was a gentle reminder that you do not get brownie points in heaven for playing video games, but you do for tracing your ancestry and the subsequent proxy baptism for any of those who were not baptized into the Mormon church. What would Grandma think?

I will add that those who use something to control like a cudgel do not need dead ancestors to help them out. Usually their word and subsequent rage is enough. IMO

Chad also told his family that Tammy was happy on the other side of the veil. This was just another manipulation. His friend JR claimed the same thing initially when she supported him unconditionally (she's a "visionary" as well). If Tammy was murdered and the veil existed, I doubt she would be happy with the outcome.

 

[indicolite22]

and dont forget she also made no effort to find them "after she learned of their disappearance"

She claimed that she knew where they were. All her defense options have flaws.

 

[Pianoturtle]

Inmates may be able to rent a tablet or other device and earbuds to call, text or email people on an approved list.

The question of who is funding Lori is an interesting one. I think it might still be Chad. He may want to keep her happy and quiet for the time being. It could be Melani, Janis or Summer. I don’t think Colby would help her at all now that he knows the kids are dead and where they were found. And if Melani is smart, she’s putting money aside for her own lawyers. That leaves her mother, who helped create the monster, or her sister.

It was definitely Chad back in March when Ms Cook was LVD’s podmate. MOO

 

[MsJosie]

According to the LV's cellmate, LV was able to talk on a phone from her jail cell with ear buds so it seems to me that LV would have had access to a cell phone. However, LV's lawyer, MM, had the issue when his lawyer/client privilege phone call was being recorded and that would have been on a jail land line. Also, why would LV have needed to use the recorded jail land line phone to call CD as he was sitting in the driveway the day the kids were found by the FBI if she had a cell phone with her?

Unless LV had a cell phone when she first got locked up, that was confiscated later on, something doesn't add up. Maybe I missed something along the way but this gets me to question the credibility of the cellmate. If anyone has any ideas about this, please chime in.

Good catch....I bet there are no cell phones. With a regular hand held phone set, another person standing by can not hear....so what is the story.

 

[MsJosie]

I think all calls go through the jail system. I seem to recall its an app. The court hearing where the chad and lori call was broadcast is a good example, I think its called CellMate - CellMate® Secure, Smart Mobile Device - Lattice Inc

thank you it makes sense now..

 

[Kimmer]

May have been a video visit most of those are just scattered around the pod and inmates can use radio earbuds to hear better, my guess is other inmates can hear her side of Congo and I'm sure it would to nauseating to hear her talk to Chad.

 

[Forever Young]

I have been so enjoying a you tube channel called Kj in the ray whose channel is devoted exclusively to discussion of this case. The last two days in particular, she has had me in tears. All I can say is that Rob Wood should take lessons from her on how to project emotion into his presentation. I just gotta put a plug in for her.

 

[Satchie]

I'm starting to think they really won't be convicted of murder because it's all going to be dumped on Alex.

I think the goal is to charge them with conspiracy to murder, in that case it doesn't matter who did the actual killing, they are all equally guilty.

 

[Colorado303]

"Manipulative, scheming, greedy, heartless lying liar" could just as easily be applied to Chad in the current situation. I don't believe you can turn into a bad person overnight. He invented a doctrine that conveniently justified murdering people. He schemed with Lori to kill their spouses and her kids. He increased Tammy's life insurance policy to profit from her murder. He manipulated his family and friends into believing he was innocent and lied repeatedly to cover his tracks.
IMO Lori is fully responsible for all the deaths, but I also believe that religious delusions played a substantial role. From what we hear she and Chad read scriptures in jail all day long. They still believe that their version of God is on their side.

It’s interesting. It seems most of us have an opinion as to which of the two is more evil, and/or has been evil longer. Who was the real driver behind whichever deaths weren’t natural.

I’ve long believed Lori was the impetus based on her history of multiple marriages, dead spouses, lawsuits, moves and the like. Compared to Chad who had one wife and roots in his communities. But I also acknowledge those that think Chad was the puppet master have convincing arguments too.

Regardless of who did what when, by now they are both guilty as sin and I don’t think there are any extenuating facts or circumstances that even partially absolve either one. They are both rotten to the core and should be locked up forever IMO.

I hope by the end of this we have a better understanding of when and why each of them decided killing people was OK.