Found Deceased CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #13

[trujac]

Use Paul Miller lost in Joshua Tree as a reference point.

So many people have perished in the desert under strange circumstances...not finding the bodies in a timely manner is common too--despite extensive searching--only for the remains to show up...sometimes years later in plain view. Since we're all speculating here..I think it's possible (I know this might sound bizarre) that desert animals have dragged deceased people into desert dens. How some remains find their way out of the den could be related to new inhabitants cleaning house...

 

[K9Enzo]

So many people have perished in the desert under strange circumstances...not finding the bodies in a timely manner is common too--despite extensive searching--only for the remains to show up...sometimes years later in plain view. Since we're all speculating here..I think it's possible (I know this might sound bizarre) that desert animals have dragged deceased people into desert dens. How some remains find their way out of the den could be related to new inhabitants cleaning house...

IMO. Your statement is not bizarre at all. There's smart folks out there that can speak to bone trajectory paths by scavenger animals. I've heard it called a bone field before. Then you have critters that use clothing, as an example, as nesting material. Human remains in some outdoor environments can really be scattered.

Also, IIRC, RT was carrying the backpack & water for both of them. Many couples will do this, where one carries the bulk of the weight. It's fine unless you get separated. IMO, she was completely exposed to the elements and without water. IMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yes, all gruesome but realistic speculations. It’s natures way.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[CSIDreamer]

No, he said he had not seen them but was told by a case detective that they do exist. MOO

Thank you for finding those. Jmo

 

[Kittybunny]

Use Paul Miller lost in Joshua Tree as a reference point.

Bringing forward this excellent post from @deugirtni on why I personally don't think the two are comparable:

Imho, one cannot compare the case of Paul Miller to that of BT.
PM set out deliberately for the purpose of a deliberate desert hike, all on his own. There was nobody with him who could say for sure where he was at any given point in time. It is only known for sure where his vehicle was parked. He was there for specific reasons of his own, and we have no idea what might have prompted him to venture off to wherever he did before he succumbed for whatever reasons he did.

On the other hand, it was an impromptu short stop to see rock formations which prompted BT to be out in the desert. BT was not going for a hike, nor was she prepared for hiking, based on her reported attire and her stated supplies (none, other than beer in hand). She had someone right there with her who knew exactly where she was at the moment she disappeared, and what time it was, and where she was headed to, and the location of her destination, how close it was and how evident its path was, from where she disappeared. Because her travel-mate was aware of all of this, he also contacted police much sooner than likely would have been the case with someone in a position such as Paul Miller's.

There also seems to have been people who believe they saw PM on the trails on the day he went missing, but meanwhile, there have been no sightings of BT reported since she left her own home that morning.

So while it is wonderful news that PM's body was located, even though there was nobody with him to say where exactly he was on that day, BT's body remains hidden even though we know exactly where she was. To me, these are completely different circumstances.

BBM. So in a nutshell - finding Paul was like a needle in a haystack with only a general starting point and different terrain - whereas based on the circumstances, finding BT in the short time she disappeared with being only steps ahead of RT, should have been a no brainer. And I totally know bodies can be missed, etc...I just don't think that is what happened in this case. Especially after watching the drone videos of the location and paths that one of our members posted here.

 

[deugirtni]

I found this in my notes re a prior post made by the VI. I have the post number, but unfortunately not the thread#, however the post IS dated, so those who want to find the actual post could find it that way.

That said, it seems that LE did indeed confirm to our VI that they have photos of BT on the day she disappeared, and that they do believe she was there. I would like to know however, what that belief is based on, ie did they merely look at perhaps the datestamp on the photos, which could easily be manipulated by the user? Were the camera and photos forensically examined to determine whether there was any tampering in that regard? Why, if they do have photographic 'proof' that BT was indeed there that day, have they not shared this photo with her immediate family? That seems cruel to me. Is LE telling our VI this to reassure him that based on what they 'had' at that point, their investigation could only go to a certain level?

Also, what is this about bodycam footage on the day? Is this referring to bodycam worn by LE?? Or... ??????:

LE said they have photos of Barb on the 12th, and they do believe Barb was there. LE have not shared much else with me.

As far as I know LE have NOT released any photos from that day. I don't know why they haven't, but at this point, like you @Micheline, i dont think it matters.

LE have the photos, as well as bodycam footage on the day. They have roberts initial statements and they scoured the surrounding area for ten days.

whether she was wearing bikini or underwear.... irrelevant to me. hat color also of little consequence to me. There may be very talented sleuths here who can make a lot out of those details.

i didnt even think to ask the kennel what she was wearing. i am looking for motive, including backstory. because, imo, Barbara could not have gotten lost where robbie claims they were, and she could not have been abducted without robert knowing, based on his own accounts.

my own opinion.

somebody has been lying to me about what happened on july 12th.

dbdb11, Aug 17, 2019
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ETA: CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

 

[rosesfromangels]

Bringing forward this excellent post from @deugirtni on why I personally don't think the two are comparable:



BBM. So in a nutshell - finding Paul was like a needle in a haystack with only a general starting point and different terrain - whereas based on the circumstances, finding BT in the short time she disappeared with being only steps ahead of RT, should have been a no brainer. And I totally know bodies can be missed, etc...I just don't think that is what happened in this case. Especially after watching the drone videos of the location and paths that one of our members posted here.

Actually, there was a witness (Neil) who saw Paul and pinpointed his last sighting. They knew where his destination was, and he was heading in that direction. He ended up being found off that trail, but within the expected area he was heading.
I speculate we will have a similar finding with Barb; within the expected area, but strayed off path, outside of the expected circumference.

Regardless, let us hope that now the weather has cooled there will be more explorers and rock hunters out there, and I hope she is found. Advance sympathy to any unsuspecting "civilians" who find her. It can be very unsettling for those who don't participate in searches , but stumble upon remains.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Kemug]

Just throwing out another thought - has RT been out and about enjoying his new truck and 5th wheel lately? Even on his own? Or has he perhaps sold the whole thing because he now can't bear to look at it?

 

[anneg]

I found this in my notes re a prior post made by the VI. I have the post number, but unfortunately not the thread#, however the post IS dated, so those who want to find the actual post could find it that way.

That said, it seems that LE did indeed confirm to our VI that they have photos of BT on the day she disappeared, and that they do believe she was there. I would like to know however, what that belief is based on, ie did they merely look at perhaps the datestamp on the photos, which could easily be manipulated by the user? Were the camera and photos forensically examined to determine whether there was any tampering in that regard? Why, if they do have photographic 'proof' that BT was indeed there that day, have they not shared this photo with her immediate family? That seems cruel to me. Is LE telling our VI this to reassure him that based on what they 'had' at that point, their investigation could only go to a certain level?

Also, what is this about bodycam footage on the day? Is this referring to bodycam worn by LE?? Or... ??????:

LE said they have photos of Barb on the 12th, and they do believe Barb was there. LE have not shared much else with me.

As far as I know LE have NOT released any photos from that day. I don't know why they haven't, but at this point, like you @Micheline, i dont think it matters.

LE have the photos, as well as bodycam footage on the day. They have roberts initial statements and they scoured the surrounding area for ten days.

whether she was wearing bikini or underwear.... irrelevant to me. hat color also of little consequence to me. There may be very talented sleuths here who can make a lot out of those details.

i didnt even think to ask the kennel what she was wearing. i am looking for motive, including backstory. because, imo, Barbara could not have gotten lost where robbie claims they were, and she could not have been abducted without robert knowing, based on his own accounts.

my own opinion.

somebody has been lying to me about what happened on july 12th.

dbdb11, Aug 17, 2019
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ETA: CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

I had totally forgotten about the reference to bodycam footage.

 

[Kemug]

According to the San Bernadino County Sheriff's dispatch call log, a dead body was found last Saturday morning (10/10/2020) near the intersection of Cedar Canyon Road and Black Canyon Road.

This has gone quiet - does anyone know anything re identification, or description?

 

[trujac]

IMO. Your statement is not bizarre at all. There's smart folks out there that can speak to bone trajectory paths by scavenger animals. I've heard it called a bone field before. Then you have critters that use clothing, as an example, as nesting material. Human remains in some outdoor environments can really be scattered.

Also, IIRC, RT was carrying the backpack & water for both of them. Many couples will do this, where one carries the bulk of the weight. It's fine unless you get separated. IMO, she was completely exposed to the elements and without water. IMO

I enjoyed your comment...there was a time when I used to walk several hours into the undeveloped desert valley from my home with my Rottweilers...we ran into a lot of interesting bones--primarily skulls. On several occasions my dogs would run a quite a distance from me into cactus and desert brush returning with bones--once a coyote skull with the neck bone still attached (she carried this one all the way home), as well as cattle, rabbit, and fox skulls, long with other miscellaneous bone trophies. I think taking dogs into the desert (like Rottweilers) that enjoy scouting out on their own retrieving old bones might be helpful when looking for people assumed to be deceased in the desert.

 

[Quiet Time]

Just throwing out another thought - has RT been out and about enjoying his new truck and 5th wheel lately? Even on his own? Or has he perhaps sold the whole thing because he now can't bear to look at it?

Or...has HE been out there since looking for his wife?

Or...asked anybody to help him look for his wife?

 

[trujac]

Or...has HE been out there since looking for his wife?

Or...asked anybody to help him look for his wife?

It does seem quizzical and sad at this point that there appears to be no more media coverage on Barbara's case...along with no family members using media resources (i.e., Facebook) to reach out to the public for help in finding her. Some families like J. Kresse's family keep a constant reminder in the public's eye that their daughter is still missing--regardless the number of years that pass with no answers. Unfortunately, I think ageism does play a role in how urgent the need is to find an elderly person that goes missing--imo, there are a finite of resources in our society for everything--including manpower needed to search for someone. And not to sound crude or demeaning, but from a practical standpoint, the reality of an elderly person going missing is a lot different than a young person just starting out in their life. JMHO.

 

[K9Enzo]

I enjoyed your comment...there was a time when I used to walk several hours into the undeveloped desert valley from my home with my Rottweilers...we ran into a lot of interesting bones--primarily skulls. On several occasions my dogs would run a quite a distance from me into cactus and desert brush returning with bones--once a coyote skull with the neck bone still attached (she carried this one all the way home), as well as cattle, rabbit, and fox skulls, long with other miscellaneous bone trophies. I think taking dogs into the desert (like Rottweilers) that enjoy scouting out on their own retrieving old bones might be helpful when looking for people assumed to be deceased in the desert.

I love that you let your Rottweilers enjoy this scouting I would reward big time for this type of good work! The nose, knows.

One should never underestimate Spot the family dog in finding human bones and trying to bring them to a second location. Whether it's back home or to the owner to see what they proudly found.

I've heard of folks on more residential area searches say pay attention to any family dogs that might be in the area, if something stands out, get permission to check the yards of those dogs even. IMO

 

[LietKynes]

I love that you let your Rottweilers enjoy this scouting I would reward big time for this type of good work! The nose, knows.

One should never underestimate Spot the family dog in finding human bones and trying to bring them to a second location. Whether it's back home or to the owner to see what they proudly found.

I've heard of folks on more residential area searches say pay attention to any family dogs that might be in the area, if something stands out, get permission to check the yards of those dogs even. IMO

What a pity Barbara's dog was kenneled on that specific day.
She may have been helpful in pointing out the trail of her beloved human !
Imo.

 

[LietKynes]

I found this in my notes re a prior post made by the VI. I have the post number, but unfortunately not the thread#, however the post IS dated, so those who want to find the actual post could find it that way.

That said, it seems that LE did indeed confirm to our VI that they have photos of BT on the day she disappeared, and that they do believe she was there. I would like to know however, what that belief is based on, ie did they merely look at perhaps the datestamp on the photos, which could easily be manipulated by the user? Were the camera and photos forensically examined to determine whether there was any tampering in that regard? Why, if they do have photographic 'proof' that BT was indeed there that day, have they not shared this photo with her immediate family? That seems cruel to me. Is LE telling our VI this to reassure him that based on what they 'had' at that point, their investigation could only go to a certain level?

Also, what is this about bodycam footage on the day? Is this referring to bodycam worn by LE?? Or... ??????:

LE said they have photos of Barb on the 12th, and they do believe Barb was there. LE have not shared much else with me.

As far as I know LE have NOT released any photos from that day. I don't know why they haven't, but at this point, like you @Micheline, i dont think it matters.

LE have the photos, as well as bodycam footage on the day. They have roberts initial statements and they scoured the surrounding area for ten days.

whether she was wearing bikini or underwear.... irrelevant to me. hat color also of little consequence to me. There may be very talented sleuths here who can make a lot out of those details.

i didnt even think to ask the kennel what she was wearing. i am looking for motive, including backstory. because, imo, Barbara could not have gotten lost where robbie claims they were, and she could not have been abducted without robert knowing, based on his own accounts.

my own opinion.

somebody has been lying to me about what happened on july 12th.

dbdb11, Aug 17, 2019
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ETA: CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

bbm

Thanks, @deugirtni .
It would be nice to hear what our VI has to say now !
I trust his account of what he knows to be the truth; and his testimony is the only accurate account of what might have happened.
It's all we have at this point and am still hoping for a break in this case.

He has been invaluable to Barbara's disappearance, and he has known the key players for many years and much better than we ever will.
Imo.

I had totally forgotten about the reference to bodycam footage.

Ita.
As well as the 911 call --wondering when it will be released ?
There could be a plethora of clues in it.
But again LE have a record of this call and they must have their reasons to not release it.
Imo.

 

[canteloupe]

bbm

Thanks, @deugirtni .
It would be nice to hear what our VI has to say now !
I trust his account of what he knows to be the truth; and his testimony is the only accurate account of what might have happened.
It's all we have at this point and am still hoping for a break in this case.

He has been invaluable to Barbara's disappearance, and he has known the key players for many years and much better than we ever will.
Imo.


Ita.
As well as the 911 call --wondering when it will be released ?
There could be a plethora of clues in it.
But again LE have a record of this call and they must have their reasons to not release it.
Imo.

Should this case follow historical precedent, the San Bernardino County Sheriff will deny any request to release the audio or transcripts of the 911 call. This department’s long-standing blanket use of exclusionary clauses in the CA Public Records Act is regularly a thorn in the side of journalists and historians.

A good example of this denial can be seen in this recent records request filed via MuckRock. There are other issues with this request that reduced the probability of its success, but the language used to deny the request in the ultimate e-mail exchange (from Nov. 11) demonstrates the SBCS’s stance on 911 calls.

This is not to say SBCS is exceptional in creating obstacles for records requesters; the LAPD will return the following text for any request for a 911 transcript made in connection with a criminal complaint:

In accordance with Section 6254(f) of the California Government Code, records of investigations conducted by, or investigatory files compiled by, any local police agency for law enforcement purposes, are exempt from disclosure. Should any records be located, 911 telephone calls, recordings, transcripts, witness statements and logs are either investigatory records themselves or properly part of an investigative file and therefore exempt from disclosure. The records may be produced in response to a subpoena or court order.​

 

[Cherwell]

It would be nice to hear what our VI has to say now !
I trust his account of what he knows to be the truth; and his testimony is the only accurate account of what might have happened.
It's all we have at this point and am still hoping for a break in this case.

All he can do is speculate, the same as the rest of us. He was not present.

 

[K9Enzo]

What a pity Barbara's dog was kenneled on that specific day.
She may have been helpful in pointing out the trail of her beloved human !
Imo.

Luckily the dog was not with them. It could have been a possible second heat casualty. I’m very passionate about dogs doing physical activities in heat after seeing two dogs on a trail drop and die. Not my dogs. Working dogs are conditioned and even then, those handlers are very mindful of working their dogs in high heat. IMO

 

[anneg]

All he can do is speculate, the same as the rest of us. He was not present.

True. But he did speak with his sister about RT's call with her brother's family, and at his request, she texted him a summary of what she could recall about what RT said. And he posted that here.