UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #18

[Sooty]

I’m sure there is much more to come out that will reinforce the case for the prosecution.

There are some things that I’m questioning at this early stage though so I’m just running through my thoughts:

The quick timeframe - 300 odd metres to the river and 300 odd back to the car. Is it even possible to get to the river and back in that time - in the dark? knowing what was happening she wouldn’t have just gone willingly, and if she was unconscious due to having been attacked, that’s going to take even more time. Was there cctv of them getting out of the car by the park?

The fact that he came back to the park again later on - it will be interesting to hear when/if he says they consensual sex at which visit to the park this occurred. What did he come back for if he had carried out an attack and murder the first visit? Did he just carry out the attack the first visit and came back to dispose of the body? Did he leave her alive but unconscious in the middle of the park and come back to kill her? I want to know what he says. He is likely to say they had consensual sex and he left her alive - she was going to make her own way home.
Of course, no one would leave a vulnerable woman alone in a park in the middle of winter unless they were truly wicked.

Sadly, people do end up having misadventures when drunk, distressed, agitated and disorientated. It isn’t always suicide. This is likely to be be a defence argument.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

IMO this is already an open and shut case.

if the accused wanted to run the case that she had consensual sex with him and he left her there, and then she committed suicide, he needed to disclose this version in his interview. Not to mention his movements on the night.

The idea she put herself in the river is what we call wild speculations.

And as we have read, so many people came forward to say they saw, tried to help, etc. Libby that evening. If PR was just helping her why didn’t he also come forward when police were asking for information.
His wife headed back to Poland so quickly makes sense to me. No blame or shame to her but I believe she had her suspicions. There was not any mention of her providing an alibi. I know she would not have to testify but would LE have questioned her in the beginning? I feel sorry for his family as well. How do you handle knowing the monster is your son, Husband? MOO

 

[Alyce]

This is worrying. If she already had a bruise or 'the' bruise on her thigh at this stage, this could discount it having been caused during a later attack.

I can’t copy over at the moment, but if you go back to post #285, the pathology report said, when looking for possible signs of sexual violence, Libby had a bruise on her inner right thigh.
From that wording I take it to mean the pathologist is indicating the upper part of her inner thigh.
I am not sure the taxi driver would have seen a bruise in that location..he would more likely see bruising on the outer area of her thigh.


Edit....Sorry, just seen Cherwell has already flagged this point

 

[KittleSkittle]

I would think the fact she had a very stable,happy relationship with her boyfriend would mean that there is absolutely no evidence to indicate she was in any way promiscuous. I have not seen one shred of evidence to say she was impulsive.
All the evidence showed at the time she was very involved in university life and was both emotional and mentally stable.

Absolutely! But it’s very easy in the UK for a young woman with a history of self harm to be given a diagnosis of Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder, and then all sorts of assumptions and prejudices enter the picture ready to be exploited.

He’s pleaded not guilty, so his defence team are going to have to somehow argue that yes, he had sex with her but he didn’t rape and murder her?

I followed the Grace Millane murder trial, and the defence brought up whatever they could find of her personal and sexual history. It was persuasive enough that many posters on this forum were anxious he might be acquitted.

I just think this must be so devastating, for Libby’s family, for her friends, and for everyone who encountered her that night.

 

[Joolz1975]

The bit about detected sperm cells and the majority matched PR worries me. Does that mean someone else's sperm cells were found also? Could he say he left her there and someone else raped and murdered her after?

 

[lo so]

The bit about detected sperm cells and the majority matched PR worries me. Does that mean someone else's sperm cells were found also? Could he say he left her there and someone else raped and murdered her after?

It could mean that but I think it's more likely that they meant the quality of the DNA was good and they got a strong result from it.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

The bit about detected sperm cells and the majority matched PR worries me. Does that mean someone else's sperm cells were found also? Could he say he left her there and someone else raped and murdered her after?

My thought was due to length of time, environmental cause that some were not able to be analyzed. I hope this is the case. MOO

 

[Joolz1975]

My thought was due to length of time, environmental cause that some were not able to be analyzed. I hope this is the case. MOO

I hadn't thought of that, and your explanation makes more sense to me thank you.

 

[Cherwell]

The bit about detected sperm cells and the majority matched PR worries me. Does that mean someone else's sperm cells were found also? Could he say he left her there and someone else raped and murdered her after?

No!
"Mr Wright said during the post-mortem an internal swab was taken from Libby which detected sperm cells and the majority yielded a DNA profile that matched Relowicz."
It means they were able to get a DNA profile from the majority of the cells.

 

[Joolz1975]

No!
"Mr Wright said during the post-mortem an internal swab was taken from Libby which detected sperm cells and the majority yielded a DNA profile that matched Relowicz."
It means they were able to get a DNA profile from the majority of the cells.

Yeh thank you Cherwell it appears I completely misunderstood what i was reading.

 

[Cherwell]

This is the thing that has surprised me most so far. I bet the little toerag wishes that he hadn't saved his condom for a wank had used a condom.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

This is the thing that has surprised me most so far. I bet the little toerag wishes that he hadn't saved his condom for a wank had used a condom.

This is what makes me think his plans were rape and murder that night. He was not concerned his semen would be found on Libby. In his mind he was going to make sure she was not found. But why discard the condom later in the evening? Really bizarre. I am glad he did.

And I know and as you all know from my postings since the beginning I have felt this is such a tragedy. But something made me have a complete nervous laugh when I read about his saliva being found on a pair of underwear in the pink bag in his car and his semen found on two other pairs. I have felt he was a psychopath from the beginning but the saliva part put me over the edge. And it is minor compared to his other offenses. It just all hit me reading today. So so sad for Libby. What a awful thing for her or anyone to go through.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

This is what makes me think his plans were rape and murder that night. He was not concerned his semen would be found on Libby. In his mind he was going to make sure she was not found. But why discard the condom later in the evening? Really bizarre. I am glad he did.

RSBM

I think he got a kick out of it. In a previous case, he left one on a kid's toy. In another, makes me sick, he did it on their door. Leaving it there, on that spot in the street, was deliberate. He is one dangerous twisted psycho.

JMO

 

[sar2them1984]

Be interesting to see if he takes the stand and gives evidence. There's a lot of questions already which he will have trouble answering

 

[Cherwell]

Will he speak directly, I wonder, or will everything go through the interpreter. Not sure if that would give him any perceived advantage.

It wasn't only the absence of a condom that surprised me as much as the survival of such good samples of DNA, considering the length of time in the water.

 

[Newthoughts]

This is the thing that has surprised me most so far. I bet the little toerag wishes that he hadn't saved his condom for a wank had used a condom.

Clear he didn't expect Libby to be found / expected being in water would remove that evidence - both of which seem consistent with planning murder IMO

He seems to get a kick out of leaving something to upset people but leaving that condom knowing what he'd done would mean extra checks is an act of supreme stupidity IMO

 

[HollyHunter9]

I'm also thinking that although she was in water, the time of year was very cold and so perhaps instead of washing away the evidence as he hoped it preserved it?

 

[Skigh]

We all know about forensic evidence,but perhaps he was not aware he could be identified by his semen.

 

[Vera_dci]

He was so brazen throughout every crime. He made no attempt to cover his face, we saw two efits which prove this. He left dna at the crime scenes in terms of semen, Its hard to believe that most people are not dna aware these days. His crimes took place in close proximity to his home. Hes a true psychopath thats for sure. Im finding it hard to work out if he's not very intelligent or it was part of the thrill.

 

[Vera_dci]

He was so brazen throughout every crime. He made no attempt to cover his face, we saw two efits which prove this. He left dna at the crime scenes in terms of semen, Its hard to believe that most people are not dna aware these days. His crimes took place in close proximity to his home. Hes a true psychopath thats for sure. Im finding it hard to work out if he's just not that intelligent or it was part of the thrill for him.