Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[MsBetsy]

I can’t get past the lack of recent photos and the police chief stating NONE of the children were seen in Cal City. Those poor kids.

Yes, I would think the parents would have shown the pictures by now and would be pleading to the public for help.

When Dulce Alevez went missing, her mom was widely criticized by the community. Yet she did interview after interview to keep her daughter's name in the spotlight. She arranged her own searches in the weeks and months after her daughter was abducted, long after LE stopped searching. Even after a year she is still searching and doing interviews.

 

[Rachelj1]

IMO lie detector testing is irrelevant.
If I were accused of a crime, I would refuse to take one. They are not inaccurate and they are subject to interpretation, and no attorney would advise you take one. If they refused to take one, that doesn't tell us anything, IMO.

I am most interested in what's been going on in the interview room.

I'm worried they were given back their phones because they are newly- purchased (relatively), and there was nothing of interest to analyze.

See my thought process on lie detector test is so different ! If I knew I was innocent I would Do anything . I would welcome any and everything they needed from me !
Moo

 

[Rachelj1]

I don't know if that's what happened either, but when a child or children die by neglect, parents don't always call 911 immediately. Sometimes they go to great lengths to cover it up.

The same is true in a crime of passion, when one spouse "accidentally" kills the other in a fit of rage. The perpetrator may try to cover it up by hiding the body, even if it means committing further crimes.

In many homicide by child abuse cases, the parent never intended the child to die. Still, when children die as a result of abuse or neglect they can still be charged with murder, even if the death was an accident.

I'm not saying that's what happened here but in some cases parents don't always consider calling 911.

Imo

You are absolutely right ! Honestly though I just have a really bad feeling with this case
Moo

 

[fraudqueen]

Just waiting and hoping for a big break in this case. Unlike some, I believe they may still be alive.

 

[Rachelj1]

Yes, I would think the parents would have shown the pictures by now and would be pleading to the public for help.

When Dulce Alevez went missing, her mom was widely criticized by the community. Yet she did interview after interview to keep her daughter's name in the spotlight. She arranged her own searches in the weeks and months after her daughter was abducted, long after LE stopped searching. Even after a year she is still searching and doing interviews.

And I think that is how parents should be . I know if my child was missing the police department would be so sick of me because I would be there everyday !! I would go to every news outlet that would listen .
Moo

 

[PommyMommy]

Somethings going on with Bakersfield Police and Federal agents......may not be related in any way. They are having a press conference at 8 am

BPD, federal law enforcement conducting operation by motel on South Union Avenue | KGET 17

It is a human trafficking investigation (per live video posted upstream). MOO

 

[Rachelj1]

It is a human trafficking investigation (per live video posted upstream). MOO

I was doing a little bit of research about that area the other day and it seems like human trafficking is kind of bad there

moo

 

[Dre]

Yikes! Not too far from their old home! I hope it’s connected as the boys might be found, but I obviously hold doubts about that. They spoke about “children and runaways” being preyed upon. Wishing LE luck in evidence gathering, arrests and hopefully saving people’s lives!

 

[PommyMommy]

Yikes! Not too far from their old home! Wonder if this has been in the works for awhile. I hope it’s connected as the boys might be found, but I obviously hold doubts about that. Wishing LE luck in evidence gathering, arrests and hopefully saving people’s lives!

I only listened briefly but IIRC, the investigation has been ongoing for 2 years or so. MOO

 

[Dre]

I only listened briefly but IIRC, the investigation has been ongoing for 2 years or so. MOO

You were posting just as I edited my comment
it’s pretty clearly unrelated but one can hope.. anything to find the boys alive!

 

[MoeInVA]

I have a question, folks. I assumed that once the other kids were taken into protective custody that they would be interviewed. But I'm reading that the parents can tell the officials they do not allow them to be interviewed and the police have to abide by that. Is that true ? I wish the reporter had asked if the other kids have been interviewed. Does anyone recall if that question has been answered ?

Chief refused to comment on that. But based on my personal experience, the children have absolutely been interviewed already as part of the investigation. When children are taken into protective custody, the state/CPS are now the ones to give permission for interviews etc.

New speculation/theory: Possibility of 2 youngest getting left in hot car too long? Cal City gets HOT, but the record heat waves that occurred over the summer were a bit before their closing date. Death Valley, only a couple hours drive from Cal City had a couple days that reached 130 degrees in August. This obviously assumes children have been missing prior to the December report date.

If a hot car event did happen, I speculate that the parents may want to hide/cover it up as it does not look good and then could have staged the "missing event" for December as it would remove all speculation toward heat related injuries.

The week of August 23rd had highs that averaged 105 for the entire week in Cal City: https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/california-city/93505/august-weather/2167931?year=2020 - again this was before their September close date but worth thinking about nevertheless.

"Heat stroke is the leading cause of non-crash, vehicle-related deaths in children under 15. Heat stroke happens when the body is not able to cool itself quickly enough." - HealthyChildren.org. Very fascinating read if you have time: Prevent Child Deaths in Hot Cars

Help Prevent Hot Car Deaths

This would explain why the new van has HEAVILY tinted windows.... and perhaps some of the "marching into the van under heavy supervision" behavior we witnessed in the surveillance videos.


The above is pure speculation.

Agree. Overdose and hypothermia are two causes of child deaths that I have seen in other cases that could be COD/MOD affecting two children at the same time. These seem like highest likelihood to me. Potentially combined with further signs of abuse and neglect which made reporting especially problematic.

Hot car deaths and drownings have also caused sibling deaths, though it seems like those would have been reported unless discovered so late or under such circumstances as to be severely neglectful.

Of course we do not know for sure if both children went missing at the same time. There have been cases of siblings disappearing months apart and eventually found with signs of severe physical abuse. But like others here, it is harder for me to fathom such severe physical abuse as to result in death occurring in two children at the same time.

Another point to consider is the effect of a severely fragile ego. Someone with a severely fragile ego may lie about circumstances of a disappearance or cover up an accident that others would report because their ego cannot handle admitting they made a mistake. For example, I could imagine someone with a fragile ego concocting a story that puts them in a more positive light (eg collecting firewood to keep their family comfortable, wrapping presents) rather than admitting an accident or unintended consequence of a punishment. JMO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

* Correction: I meant to type on my post on page 38 that lie detector tests are "not always accurate."

Thanks to the person who pointed out their phone data is in the Cloud. Oops. I think it was the AW case even recently discussing this, that it takes a separate warrant for each App, etc. and takes months.

 

[MsBetsy]

Bayan Wang would make an excellent interrogator/interviewer, He was so good he made me feel like the cheif was the criminal

Yes, I'm glad he asked if the children were still in protective custody. CPS must have found evidence of abuse or neglect since they won't even return them to the grandmother. Imo

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

And I think that is how parents should be . I know if my child was missing the police department would be so sick of me because I would be there everyday !! I would go to every news outlet that would listen .
Moo

The media too. They wouldn't be able to Shut It. MOO

 

[LietKynes]

As a mom myself, it’s just no excuse .
Moo

Agreed, and I never condoned any parent's losing their tempers.
Not sure if anyone thinks I posted that as an excuse.
Of course not.
Just so it's clear.

I think the written comments can be mistaken for siding with the adoptive parents, despite LE indicating otherwise -- not sure but some posts can be misunderstood.

If TW and JW could not properly parent those children, they should have let them go into foster care where they'd all be safe and alive, before doing something they may have regretted.
I know it's hindsight now.

Of course it's no excuse.
I'm curious about what LE discovered after speaking with the other children ?
Not that we're privy to that.
But the digging at the house happened fairly quickly and it looks like LE aren't searching for a kidnapper.
Imo.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

It is a human trafficking investigation (per live video posted upstream). MOO

 

[LietKynes]

Yes, I'm glad he asked if the children were still in protective custody. CPS must have found evidence of abuse or neglect since they won't even return them to the grandmother. Imo

Very sad for all of the kids.
I think two of them are biological ?
And even those boys have not been placed with relatives.
It's looking like all of those children were in a bad situation !

The media too. They wouldn't be able to Shut It. MOO

Ita.

Sadly this has not happened.
As far as TW and JW moving from the house in Cal. City... if your children wandered off and became lost --as TW said in his interview -- wouldn't they want to stay there in case the boys returned ?
Instead they scampered off.
They're not acting like concerned parents.
Imo.

 

[LietKynes]

I was doing a little bit of research about that area the other day and it seems like human trafficking is kind of bad there

moo

Thanks for the information, @Rachelj1 !
Looks like our worst fears may have happened ?
Imo.

 

[LietKynes]

As a mom myself, it’s just no excuse .
Moo

Exactly, I totally agree.
I know I replied previously but your post brought up a good point.

But not all parents are the same.
TW and JW may have had a low boiling point, so to speak ?
To them what would be unspeakable to the rest of us may have been going on for some time as far as snapping and losing it ?
Hence the reason CPS are refusing to turn them over to not only TW and JW, but also to extended adoptive family.

Sadly after reading enough cases here and in msm we see parents who use this as an excuse all the time.
Imo.

 

[LietKynes]

Yes, I would think the parents would have shown the pictures by now and would be pleading to the public for help.

When Dulce Alevez went missing, her mom was widely criticized by the community. Yet she did interview after interview to keep her daughter's name in the spotlight. She arranged her own searches in the weeks and months after her daughter was abducted, long after LE stopped searching. Even after a year she is still searching and doing interviews.

Great point !!!
If parents care --it shows.
I remember Chelsea Kings' parents and especially the video of her dad the evening of the day she went missing, speaking to the group who'd assembled to search.
He thanked them and and his voice was breaking and fearful.
Horribly sad.
Imo.