FL FL - Miramar, WhtMale UP1249, 21-35, silver ring w/ 'Kriegsgluck', Aug'84

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This guy went missing from Miami




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MISSING
Missing Person / NamUs #MP2631Arthur Stanley Carver III, Male, White / Caucasian
Date of Last ContactDecember 6, 1983
Missing FromNorth Fort Myers, Florida



Circumstances of DisappearanceWENT MISSING IN MIAMI, FLORIDA, DESTINATION WAS BIMINI, BAHAMAS FOR MARIJUANA, WAS LAST SEEN LEAVING DINNER KEY MARINA IN MIAMI, FLORIDA ON 12/06/1983 WITH KEVIN WADSWORTH WHO ALSO IS MISSING.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)


He was going to pick up drugs maybe someone knew he had a lot of money?
 
ClaireNC said:
I went down the Kriegsglück rabbit hole for a bit. Just a few notes:
-Basic translation: "fortune of war", "luck of war" or "fate of war"
-It does not carry a special connotation in German, it simply means luck in war - a war developing favorably.
-No connection to the Nazis, the word was used long before they rose to power.
-The famous German poet, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote a poem titled "Kriegsglück"
-There is a Goethe museum and the Goethe House in Frankfort, Germany. Frankfurt Goethe-Museum and Goethe-House | Frankfurt Tourism
-The German edition of the card game Magic the Gathering, has a Kriegsglück card which may be translated as "fighting chance". (note the card game wasn't released until 1993, so it has no relevance to this case.)

I found no images or anything of a similar ring searching through historical documents and antique sites. Could it be that the ring is not an heirloom, but more of the modern souvenir, possibly from Frankfort and the Goethe Museum?
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yeah I seem to being sucked down this rabbit hole. Good info on the ring. Was thinking maybe also given to someone as good luck charm if they are going on a trip or venture of some kind.
 
ClaireNC said:
I went down the Kriegsglück rabbit hole for a bit. Just a few notes:
-Basic translation: "fortune of war", "luck of war" or "fate of war"
-It does not carry a special connotation in German, it simply means luck in war - a war developing favorably.
-No connection to the Nazis, the word was used long before they rose to power.
-The famous German poet, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote a poem titled "Kriegsglück"
-There is a Goethe museum and the Goethe House in Frankfort, Germany. Frankfurt Goethe-Museum and Goethe-House | Frankfurt Tourism
-The German edition of the card game Magic the Gathering, has a Kriegsglück card which may be translated as "fighting chance". (note the card game wasn't released until 1993, so it has no relevance to this case.)

I found no images or anything of a similar ring searching through historical documents and antique sites. Could it be that the ring is not an heirloom, but more of the modern souvenir, possibly from Frankfort and the Goethe Museum?
Click to expand...

yeah I seem to being sucked down this rabbit hole. Good info on the ring. Was thinking maybe also given to someone as good luck charm if they are going on a trip or venture of some kind.
ClaireNC said:
Most likely Alan J. Hirsch was lost at sea, with his friend Russ Rolnick
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Ok Your right.. lets skip him...Iam sure you have been here before ha!
 
This is a good rabbit hole to go down :)

I find quite a lot of what they call "Patriotischer" rings on Ebay and related sites. Many different designs, often with symbols or insignia of whatever service the owner was part of. Most of the kreigsglueck rings are wider and thinner-looking, and appear to be gold, though there are bronze and iron as well. They are all marked 1914-1915. On the cursory search I did, I didn't find any that were post-WWI.

This one, in a museum, was the closest: "Kriegsglück" Ring mit Text-Beilage. The text confirms @ClaireNC's info about the rings being part of the drive to turn in gold for the good of the country.

If I could read German, I could probably get a lot more information :p
 
carbuff said:
This is a good rabbit hole to go down :)

I find quite a lot of what they call "Patriotischer" rings on Ebay and related sites. Many different designs, often with symbols or insignia of whatever service the owner was part of. Most of the kreigsglueck rings are wider and thinner-looking, and appear to be gold, though there are bronze and iron as well. They are all marked 1914-1915. On the cursory search I did, I didn't find any that were post-WWI.

This one, in a museum, was the closest: "Kriegsglück" Ring mit Text-Beilage. The text confirms @ClaireNC's info about the rings being part of the drive to turn in gold for the good of the country.

If I could read German, I could probably get a lot more information :p
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That ring is made from a bent horseshoe nail. The text says something like

The horseshoe nail has been a sign of luck since [ancient times]. In these hard times, we above all wish all our our brothers, sons and relatives who have gone off to the field [of battle], all our soldiers whether high or low [in rank], luck so they can return whole and victorious after a hard struggle for the Fatherland, threatened on many sides.
As a visible sign of this heartfelt wish, we give our brave soldiers an iron ring made from a horseshoe nail. It may be worn by them as a talisman to protect them from emergencies and death!
But we all want to wear this ring as proof that we always think of our heroes.

It’s not word for word, but that’s about it. German to English is sometimes difficult to translate.
 
Thanks @Captain Beck ! Very interesting. So the ring in the museum is iron made from a nail. I wish we knew what the ring found near the UID was made of.

@carbuff I've also been searching through pictures of Patriotischer rings and not finding anything close. Many of the Kriegsglück rings also have the date 1914 on them. Also looking for anything with a similar font to the one found with the UID.
 
The ring could belong to the victim which would mean the victim has a historical connection to Austria. Or it could be that the victim was somehow connected with wartime memorabilia as a business. That might be an explanation why someone non-local ends up where they ended up and what seems to be a premeditated attack. Maybe the victim was buying or selling something a lot more valuable than the ring and the ring got left behind by accident.
 

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MISSING
Missing Person / NamUs #MP10658Carl J Schauber III, Male, White / Caucasian
Date of Last ContactApril 1, 1983
Missing FromChester Springs, Pennsylvania
 

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Schauber is interesting. German/Austrian name, facially very similar, height and age match, and there's almost nothing about him on line.

Hmmmmm. Anybody feel like poking around in family tree sites?
 
carbuff said:
Schauber is interesting. German/Austrian name, facially very similar, height and age match, and there's almost nothing about him on line.

Hmmmmm. Anybody feel like poking around in family tree sites?
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Looking now...
 
carbuff said:
Schauber is interesting. German/Austrian name, facially very similar, height and age match, and there's almost nothing about him on line.

Hmmmmm. Anybody feel like poking around in family tree sites?
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There is nothing to indicate that Carl Schauber spent any time in Germany. While there are German ancestors, both of his parents were born in the US and were settled in PA.
 
carbuff said:
Schauber is interesting. German/Austrian name, facially very similar, height and age match, and there's almost nothing about him on line.

Hmmmmm. Anybody feel like poking around in family tree sites?
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ClaireNC said:
There is nothing to indicate that Carl Schauber spent any time in Germany. While there are German ancestors, both of his parents were born in the US and were settled in PA.
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oh good find ClairNC I was also thinking his name he is Carl Schauber lll so maybe it was his grandfather?
 
madamx said:
oh good find ClairNC I was also thinking his name he is Carl Schauber lll so maybe it was his grandfather?
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Yes he is Carl III, his paternal grandfather was born in the US. His maternal grandparents are from Germany. However, there is no indication that Carl III ever spent time in Germany and the UID we are looking out had dental work that was likely done in Europe/Germany.
 
ClaireNC said:
Yes he is Carl III, his paternal grandfather was born in the US. His maternal grandparents are from Germany. However, there is no indication that Carl III ever spent time in Germany and the UID we are looking out had dental work that was likely done in Europe/Germany.
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Oh crap crap crap! I forgot about the dental work ugh....
 
Ok I found this guy

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)


Missing Person / NamUs #MP11284Howard Duane Eggleston, Male, White / Caucasian
Date of Last ContactNovember 3, 1984
Missing FromFort Lauderdale, Florida
--
Circumstances of DisappearanceHoward was last seen in the Fort Lauderdale area in 1984.


I added him because although it mentions November 1984 on the circumstances it just says 1984 in general. So I wonder if November was when he was reported?
 
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