Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

[ldlager]

How would Gomes have the ability to see into the future in order to know she was going to become lead detective? It’s impossible to state Gomes sent Price prior to her being appointed lead. Maybe Price was going to take charge and as the case grew in complexity Gomes was appointed lead? We just don’t know.

Surely we’re not expecting the TPS to step up and explain themselves every time criticism driven by the media surfaces involving this case. Do people of Toronto really believe TPS is that incompetent or is it a case of believing one-sided biased media stories?

Misty, not sure if you are in Toronto. But there is a sense among some (possibly many) in the city that TPS has stumbled in performing their duties in investigation a number of significant crime and murder investigations in recent years. i don’t need to go over these, as they have been discussed here before.
I think it fair to say that the public reasonably expects that the TPS, which constantly promotes itself and seeks to be seen as a highly trained and professional organization, could and should have performed better in many of these cases. No one is perfect of course, and the media is quick to report issues and errors. But the press does have a role to play, and the press is imo justified and in fact obligated to report on perceived or proven police incompetence and/or lack of judgement.
Many members of the public have lost some degree of confidence in the force- often for good reason. And some members of the public never had much confidence to begin with.

 

[WINDSOR]

I don’t believe the motive was purely financial gain either.

If in fact a beneficiary is the murderer, I’d imagine they’d support a m/s scenario, as opposed to a double murder and resulting investigation by LE, especially after going to the effort of staging the deaths that way. Estate disbursements take place regardless of the cause and manner of death. But the stigma of m/s is everlasting.

It is my understanding in Canada, and most jurisdictions, one cannot benefit from the proceeds of a crime. So a convicted murderer cannot be a beneficiary.

 

[MistyWaters]

From what I read, I understood that Gomes simply got the luck of the draw on the Sherman case, and already *was* the lead detective on the Sherman case - she didn't need to be psychic. Not so impossible to believe Gomes sent Price when TPS wrote it themelves, imo. My own thought is - too bad choices aren't made by TPS based on type or complexity of case.

From article quoted above. PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines. :

"Each team typically has eight officers of different ranks, led by a detective sergeant. There is no favouritism or choice made depending on the type or complexity of case. The team that is “up” (available) gets the assignment. On that Friday afternoon, Det.-Sgt. Susan Gomes’ team was “up” and they were given the Sherman assignment. .... At no time that day did Det.-Sgt. Gomes, the lead homicide investigator, go to the crime scene while the bodies were there, Toronto Police have confirmed. [my note: the bodies left the scene the same evening of the day they were found.]

Instead of going herself, Gomes delegated a junior homicide officer on her team, Det. Brandon Price, to attend. .... “Inspector Gomes had complete confidence in her partner (Price) to take on this task as they continued to work seamlessly together on the case,” according to a statement provided to the Star by Toronto Police spokesperson Meaghan Gray. Price gave a short press briefing that evening outside Old Colony Road, telling reporters there was no sign of forced entry and police were not looking for an “outstanding suspect.” ...

“It was Detective Sergeant Brandon Price (Price’s rank was detective at the time, he has since been promoted) who was tasked by Inspector Gomes (who was also later promoted) with attending the Sherman home in the hours/days immediately following the discovery of the bodies...,” Gray said."

I recall it was Price who spoke to concerned neighbours that same evening who’d gathered around outside. Naturally they’d want to know what was going on and it must’ve been a shock to learn the Shermans were dead. They wouldn’t have known if a 911 call had been placed minutes earlier and the Shermans had been violently attacked, the killer running around hiding in back yards and hedges and the police embarking on a manhunt. IIRC one neighbour wondering if he should take his family to a hotel, another had remarked prior burglaries had taken place. Price’s role at that point was that of public service, to reassure neighbours without giving away details. He wasn’t holding a public press conference.

It was the next day that the Homicide Unit took lead in the case. That’s also when Gomes would’ve been appointed lead.

We’ve had this discussion many times. I’m sorry if I don’t understand what you think was amiss. It’s not as if TPS have the ability to walk into a crime scene and immediately know what occurred at a crime scene. That’s why investigation takes place.

 

[MistyWaters]

Misty, not sure if you are in Toronto. But there is a sense among some (possibly many) in the city that TPS has stumbled in performing their duties in investigation a number of significant crime and murder investigations in recent years. i don’t need to go over these, as they have been discussed here before.
I think it fair to say that the public reasonably expects that the TPS, which constantly promotes itself and seeks to be seen as a highly trained and professional organization, could and should have performed better in many of these cases. No one is perfect of course, and the media is quick to report issues and errors. But the press does have a role to play, and the press is imo justified and in fact obligated to report on perceived or proven police incompetence and/or lack of judgement.
Many members of the public have lost some degree of confidence in the force- often for good reason. And some members of the public never had much confidence to begin with.

What do you mean by “many”? Other than KD I haven’t noticed any other reporter of MSM nor anyone else with close involvement to the family levy criticism again TSP regarding the Sherman homicide investigation.

And no, I don’t live in Toronto and I’m well aware of recent happenings regarding police in general. But I’ve never followed another police investigation where LE have been so criticized based on one-sided stories. In Canada it’s just not reality to expect LE to come forth and defend themselves for each and every action and allegation during an open investigation. Obviously KD is well aware of that.

But I admit it does leave me wondering why the focus of the Sherman homicides has become fixated on the ineptitude and incompetence of TPS. It reminds me a lot of a preemptive defensive tactic, a strategy arguing how a shoddy investigation was responsible for the arrest of the wrong guy. JMO

 

[ldlager]

It is my understanding in Canada, and most jurisdictions, one cannot benefit from the proceeds of a crime. So a convicted murderer cannot be a beneficiary.

Not an issue Of course if the murderer thinks they are never going to be caught and convicted.

 

[ldlager]

What do you mean by “many”? Other than KD I haven’t noticed any other reporter of MSM nor anyone else with close involvement to the family levy criticism again TSP regarding the Sherman homicide investigation.

And no, I don’t live in Toronto and I’m well aware of recent happenings regarding police in general. But I’ve never followed another police investigation where LE have been so criticized based on one-sided stories. In Canada it’s just not reality to expect LE to come forth and defend themselves for each and every action and allegation during an open investigation. Obviously KD is well aware of that.

But I admit it does leave me wondering why the focus of the Sherman homicides has become fixated on the ineptitude and incompetence of TPS. It reminds me a lot of a preemptive defensive tactic, a strategy arguing how a shoddy investigation was responsible for the arrest of the wrong guy. JMO

My posting said that many people in Toronto feel that tps has stumbled in recent high profile investigations. I wasn’t referring to members of the press, or to the Sherman investigation in particular.
We have gone through the G8 fiasco, the BM mass murders, the Tess Richey case, and more. The reputation of TPS has taken a beating with many members of the public in Toronto in the past few years.
The Sherman case isn’t helping repair this damage, because the public, rightly or wrongly, perceive there is little to no progress being made, despite it being reported that TpS has reportedly committed unprecedented resources to this case. There have been no meaningful updates during almost 3 years, and irrespective if whether this is good police practice, many ordinary people perceive it as a lack of capability, or a lack of real commitment on the part of TPS. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Not an issue Of course if the murderer thinks they are never going to be caught and convicted.

Or not an issue if an accused is found Not Guilty because the jury pool holds a preconceived notion that TPS is incompetent so the investigation must’ve been shoddy.

 

[JayFriend]

Just checking in. Not receiving any email alerts of new postings, yet the last 3 times I checked in there were 3 or 4 new pages. Not getting email notifications used to be sporadic, but it seems like now it's a permanent thing. Anyone else seeing this? I thought by posting I might trigger the email notifications to come back. Otherwise I may just abandon trying to follow Websleuths and wait for something on mainstream media.

 

[JDG]

My posting said that many people in Toronto feel that tps has stumbled in recent high profile investigations. I wasn’t referring to members of the press, or to the Sherman investigation in particular.
We have gone through the G8 fiasco, the BM mass murders, the Tess Richey case, and more. The reputation of TPS has taken a beating with many members of the public in Toronto in the past few years.
The Sherman case isn’t helping repair this damage, because the public, rightly or wrongly, perceive there is little to no progress being made, despite it being reported that TpS has reportedly committed unprecedented resources to this case. There have been no meaningful updates during almost 3 years, and irrespective if whether this is good police practice, many ordinary people perceive it as a lack of capability, or a lack of real commitment on the part of TPS. JMO

I would never expect 'meaningful updates' from the police on ANY murder investigation!

Anything 'meaningful' is evidentiary and would not be divulged until a trial.

The only people I 'know' who give a hoot about the Sherman case are on this thread.

My friends and acquaintances 'might comment' on a KD article but its not part of a regular conversation in my circle.

Even the Sherman children and extended family would be kept in the dark until a trial, that's the law.

*************************************************

The Hamilton police are not giving 'updates' on that man who burned his mother and stepfather to death either. Crickets!

We will hear all about it when he goes to trial though. Stay tuned.

 

[casesensitive]

Just checking in. Not receiving any email alerts of new postings, yet the last 3 times I checked in there were 3 or 4 new pages. Not getting email notifications used to be sporadic, but it seems like now it's a permanent thing. Anyone else seeing this? I thought by posting I might trigger the email notifications to come back. Otherwise I may just abandon trying to follow Websleuths and wait for something on mainstream media.

You need to change your WS option for receiving email alerts, because it isn't working. Find out where you clicked on for the email alerts, and unclick it. You may have to click on "save" to make the change happen. Then come to this thread, and click on "watch thread' on the top right side. You will be alerted to new posts when you log in, by clicking on "Alerts". I have never opted for email alerts, so I can't relate to your problem with them.

 

[ldlager]

I would never expect 'meaningful updates' from the police on ANY murder investigation!

Anything 'meaningful' is evidentiary and would not be divulged until a trial.

The only people I 'know' who give a hoot about the Sherman case are on this thread.

My friends and acquaintances 'might comment' on a KD article but its not part of a regular conversation in my circle.

Even the Sherman children and extended family would be kept in the dark until a trial, that's the law.

*************************************************

The Hamilton police are not giving 'updates' on that man who burned his mother and stepfather to death either. Crickets!

We will hear all about it when he goes to trial though. Stay tuned.

I am part of a group of friends who discuss the Sherman case on a daily basis. The Sherman’s reach and the number of people they employed, or impacted while they were alive was very large. I would not minimize the level of interest in this case amongst hundreds and thousands of people.

 

[ldlager]

I would never expect 'meaningful updates' from the police on ANY murder investigation!

Anything 'meaningful' is evidentiary and would not be divulged until a trial.

The only people I 'know' who give a hoot about the Sherman case are on this thread.

My friends and acquaintances 'might comment' on a KD article but its not part of a regular conversation in my circle.

Even the Sherman children and extended family would be kept in the dark until a trial, that's the law.

*************************************************

The Hamilton police are not giving 'updates' on that man who burned his mother and stepfather to death either. Crickets!

We will hear all about it when he goes to trial though. Stay tuned.

you understand tps saying nothing. Many people equate silence with no progress. Imo. Just like many people make the leap from “ we are not looking for any suspects” to “it’s a murder suicide”

 

[ldlager]

Or not an issue if an accused is found Not Guilty because the jury pool holds a preconceived notion that TPS is incompetent so the investigation must’ve been shoddy.

if the crown can not adequately prove it’s case to the jury, Because the jury determines that investigation was full of holes, or for any other reason, then the accused should be found not guilty.

 

[ldlager]

Just checking in. Not receiving any email alerts of new postings, yet the last 3 times I checked in there were 3 or 4 new pages. Not getting email notifications used to be sporadic, but it seems like now it's a permanent thing. Anyone else seeing this? I thought by posting I might trigger the email notifications to come back. Otherwise I may just abandon trying to follow Websleuths and wait for something on mainstream media.

there are new postings almost every day. Why not just check daily or every couple of days?
Maybe we should start a websleuths thread for why the emails alerts don’t seem to work

 

[JDG]

Just checking in. Not receiving any email alerts of new postings, yet the last 3 times I checked in there were 3 or 4 new pages. Not getting email notifications used to be sporadic, but it seems like now it's a permanent thing. Anyone else seeing this? I thought by posting I might trigger the email notifications to come back. Otherwise I may just abandon trying to follow Websleuths and wait for something on mainstream media.

I've just gone to 'watch thread' and clicked on 'get email alerts'. Just testing the email system for you.

I will post tomorrow or the day after and let you know if I get any emails.

Please follow the instructions from casesensitive and see if it works for you.

If you dont check 'with alerts' you won't get them.

 

[MistyWaters]

if the crown can not adequately prove it’s case to the jury, Because the jury determines that investigation was full of holes, or for any other reason, then the accused should be found not guilty.

Right, and until the Crown Attorney assigned to this homicide case believes there’s adequate evidence to proceed with charges being laid, we’re all waiting. Including the press.

 

[al66pine]

How would Atty/Law Firm Know?

I suspect not, as the lawyer wouldn’t know if that was your latest will?

@ldlager You're right: an atty/law firm holding a will would not necessarily know that the client's will they hold is the latest will. But briefly, on learning of client's death, atty/law firm is (imo) may be required to file will in court, but not saying this is true for Ontario.
Speaking gen'ly here w a hypo. In 2010 ABC law firm drafts will for Clarence Client which he signs at law firm office w formalities such as witness' siggies, etc, and law firm maintains it. On Clarence's 2017 death, law firm learns of death but does not know - as a fact - they hold Clarence's latest will. Still after his 2017 death, ABC law firm files original will in probate court in jurisdiction where Clarence lived. If no other will is filed, then estate is distributed per 2010 will.
But let's say, in 2016 Clarence changed his mind about leaving $ to Freddie his freeloading relative and went to XYZ law firm which drafted a will revoking previous wills, omitting Freddie as a beneficiary, but otherwise same distrib as per earlier will. In XYZ law firm office, Clarence signed 2016 will which also bears witness' siggies, etc, and was held by XYZ law firm. On Clarence's 2017 death, XYZ firm files that original will in probate court.

In ^ case, which does court rule as valid: 2010 or 2016 will?
--- If no contests, or requests that court declare 2016 will invalid, estate is distributed per 2016 will.
--- If someone, say Freddie contests the 2016 will and provides evidence the court finds credible, say, Clarence was in a persistent vegetative state or coma during all of 2016 in a nursing home, thus could not have been the person signing the will, the estate is (very, very, very) likely distributed per 2010 will. A far out example hypo? Yes, but shows the rationale behind atty's obligation to file will in probate court. Up to the court to decide which is valid.

Even more drastic hypo, w some waaay far out circumstances which invalidate 2010 will as well as the 2016 will, then court rules both wills invalid. In that case, estate could end up being distributed as if Clarence died intestate, IOW no will.

Like I said, wondering if Ontario atty's are obligated to file original will in probate court.

 

[JDG]

I've just gone to 'watch thread' and clicked on 'get email alerts'. Just testing the email system for you.

I will post tomorrow or the day after and let you know if I get any emails.

Please follow the instructions from casesensitive and see if it works for you.

If you dont check 'with alerts' you won't get them.

O/T
The Email system is working.

Two people posted and the word Email was on the thread, looked at my email and although they had gone to my junk mail, there were two email notifications. Moved them to 'inbox' and now expect that others will be redirected to inbox automatically.

The other way to check is to check Alerts in the upper right hand corner of the site.

Every time someone posts to one of your threads, it is noted there. That may be easier for you than the email alert system.

Hope this helps, its all working just fine.

 

[deugirtni]

Just checking in. Not receiving any email alerts of new postings, yet the last 3 times I checked in there were 3 or 4 new pages. Not getting email notifications used to be sporadic, but it seems like now it's a permanent thing. Anyone else seeing this? I thought by posting I might trigger the email notifications to come back. Otherwise I may just abandon trying to follow Websleuths and wait for something on mainstream media.

Hi JayFriend, I have noticed your dilemma at various times and so I did a little experiment and set my own settings to email new posts (this was a month or so ago). The emails are basically the same as setting your 'alerts' to alert you when you log in to WS that a new post, or some kind of msg is waiting for you to look at. What I have discovered is that the email alerts act the same as the WS forum alerts, in that... if you get an email saying 'there is a new post and here is what it says', IF you do not actually log in to WS to view that new post, you won't get more emails (in regard to that same thread at least), until you do. The same thing goes for the online 'alerts', .. in the message we receive about the 'alerts', it says 'there may be more posts after this one'.. that is because, from what I can surmise, the system won't keep telling you about new ones until you actually look at the one it already informed you about.

Example:

1. 
   JayFriend replied to the thread Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15. There may be more posts after this.
   7:09 PM

Any posts on this thread after the one above, will not be alerted to me, until I actually come here and view it. It is not like a forum where you can choose to view all posts via email and you just get every single one sent to you. So.. whenever you DO get an email, even if it's a week later, just click on the link, sign into your WS account and view it, and if you also have your 'alerts' checkmarked, you will see all that you have missed during your absence. HTH.
----
ETA:

This is the email I received about your 'new post', and although there were more new ones AFTER yours, I received no emails:

Websleuths

deugirtni, JayFriend replied to a thread you are watching at Websleuths.

Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15
Just checking in. Not receiving any email alerts of new postings, yet the last 3 times I checked in there were 3 or 4 new pages. Not getting email notifications used to be sporadic, but it seems like now it's a permanent thing. Anyone else seeing this? I thought by posting I might trigger the email notifications to come back. Otherwise I may just abandon trying to follow Websleuths and wait for something on mainstream media.
View This Thread Unread Watched Threads
Please do not reply to this email. You must visit Websleuths to reply.

This message was sent to you because you opted to watch the thread Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15 at Websleuths with email notification of new replies. You will not receive any further emails about this thread until you have read the new messages.

If you no longer wish to receive these emails, you may disable emails from this thread or disable all emails.

 

[JayFriend]

Hi JayFriend, I have noticed your dilemma at various times and so I did a little experiment and set my own settings to email new posts (this was a month or so ago). The emails are basically the same as setting your 'alerts' to alert you when you log in to WS that a new post, or some kind of msg is waiting for you to look at. What I have discovered is that the email alerts act the same as the WS forum alerts, in that... if you get an email saying 'there is a new post and here is what it says', IF you do not actually log in to WS to view that new post, you won't get more emails (in regard to that same thread at least), until you do. The same thing goes for the online 'alerts', .. in the message we receive about the 'alerts', it says 'there may be more posts after this one'.. that is because, from what I can surmise, the system won't keep telling you about new ones until you actually look at the one it already informed you about.

Example:

1. 
   JayFriend replied to the thread Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15. There may be more posts after this.
   7:09 PM

Any posts on this thread after the one above, will not be alerted to me, until I actually come here and view it. It is not like a forum where you can choose to view all posts via email and you just get every single one sent to you. So.. whenever you DO get an email, even if it's a week later, just click on the link, sign into your WS account and view it, and if you also have your 'alerts' checkmarked, you will see all that you have missed during your absence. HTH.
----
ETA:

This is the email I received about your 'new post', and although there were more new ones AFTER yours, I received no emails:

Websleuths

deugirtni, JayFriend replied to a thread you are watching at Websleuths.

Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15
Just checking in. Not receiving any email alerts of new postings, yet the last 3 times I checked in there were 3 or 4 new pages. Not getting email notifications used to be sporadic, but it seems like now it's a permanent thing. Anyone else seeing this? I thought by posting I might trigger the email notifications to come back. Otherwise I may just abandon trying to follow Websleuths and wait for something on mainstream media.
View This Thread Unread Watched Threads
Please do not reply to this email. You must visit Websleuths to reply.

This message was sent to you because you opted to watch the thread Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15 at Websleuths with email notification of new replies. You will not receive any further emails about this thread until you have read the new messages.

If you no longer wish to receive these emails, you may disable emails from this thread or disable all emails.

Thank you, I know how the system works. I should receive an email notification for the first new post after I've been here, but that's not happening anymore, even though my settings call for it. I came here after receiving an email notification of a private message from a member and then saw there were 12 new posts. Notifications are not going to spam. I'll try unsubscribing and resubscribing to see if that helps. Sorry to clutter this thread with my problems.