Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

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MistyWaters

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On the topic of Estates and Wills, I noticed the Supreme Court of Canada appeal by KD only pertains to The Estate of Bernard Sherman - not The Estate of Honey Sherman nor the Estates of Barry and Honey Sherman. Only The Estate of Barry Sherman.

Supreme Court of Canada - SCC Case Information - Docket - 38695
Docket
38695
Estate of Bernard Sherman and the Trustees of the Estate, et al. v. Kevin Donovan, et al.

(Ontario) (Civil) (By Leave)

(Sealing order) (Certain information not available to the public)
 

Lexiintoronto

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MS/HS evidently had joint ownership of at least 1 Fla condo:
Collins Avenue, Sunny Isles Beach, FL | BlockShopper.com

I wonder if HS was co-owner of some/all of MS properties (reportedly 17) in the Toronto area?
HS death without a will would likely have made that situation a mess.... HS share would go (I guess) to HS kids?

Mary was also a part owner with Honey of a Forest Hill home at the time of the murders:

“Nothing was ever simple with Sherman plans. In fact, Honey and sister Mary (funded by the billions Barry had made in the generic drug industry) initially purchased another property in Forest Hill. When it was deemed too small for the planned construction, 91 Old Forest Hill Road was purchased”

Toronto property where Honey Sherman planned to build her dream home sells for $7.4 million — $900,000 below asking

ETA: Deleted my question about this Florida property possibly being inherited from Honey and Mary’s parents: they both had passed away many year’s prior to the 2014 purchase date.
 
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MistyWaters

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Oddly I hadn’t noticed KD ever mentioning a connection between Barry to one or more individuals, a link that wouldn’t otherwise be apparent. Instead he’s only reported the four children inherited equally, as if there’s nothing to see here. Instead the focus is in Honey’s Estate which wasn’t appealed. It stands out as really unusual to me, how this bolded blurb submitted to SCC by the attorneys representing the Estate of Barry Sherman has been essentially ignored or written off as meaningless.

An “affected individual” refers to everyone named in the sealed estate files including the trustees and beneficiaries.

“13............The Sealed Materials contain, among other personal information, the full names and home addresses of the Affected Individuals, including minors. The Sealed Materials also provide a link between certain of the Affected Individuals and the Shermans which would not otherwise be apparent.”
https://www.scc-csc.ca/WebDocuments...man-and-the-Trustees-of-the-Estate-et-al..pdf
 

Lexiintoronto

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On the topic of Estates and Wills, I noticed the Supreme Court of Canada appeal by KD only pertains to The Estate of Bernard Sherman - not The Estate of Honey Sherman nor the Estates of Barry and Honey Sherman. Only The Estate of Barry Sherman.

Supreme Court of Canada - SCC Case Information - Docket - 38695
Docket
38695
Estate of Bernard Sherman and the Trustees of the Estate, et al. v. Kevin Donovan, et al.

(Ontario) (Civil) (By Leave)

(Sealing order) (Certain information not available to the public)

I think she may be included in the ‘et al’ in the docket (guessing).

In the details of the files she is named:

“THE ESTATE OF BERNARD SHERMAN AND THE TRUSTEES OF THE ESTATE, and THE ESTATE OF HONEY SHERMAN AND THE TRUSTEES OF THE ESTATE
- and –
KEVIN DONOVAN”
https://www.scc-csc.ca/WebDocuments...man-and-the-Trustees-of-the-Estate-et-al..pdf

(Unless her estate was dropped from the proceedings and I’m missing it.)

ETA: Does the way they wrote it have any meaning? They didn’t write ‘The Estate of Honey and Barry Sherman and Trustees’... they separated the two. Does that mean that they’re regarding each estate as being separate?
 
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MistyWaters

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I think she may be included in the ‘et al’ in the docket (guessing).

In the details of the files she is named:

“THE ESTATE OF BERNARD SHERMAN AND THE TRUSTEES OF THE ESTATE, and THE ESTATE OF HONEY SHERMAN AND THE TRUSTEES OF THE ESTATE
- and –
KEVIN DONOVAN”
https://www.scc-csc.ca/WebDocuments...man-and-the-Trustees-of-the-Estate-et-al..pdf

(Unless her estate was dropped from the proceedings and I’m missing it.)

ETA: Does the way they wrote it have any meaning? They didn’t write ‘The Estate of Honey and Barry Sherman and Trustees’... they separated the two. Does that mean that they’re regarding each estate as being separate?

Yes you certainly could be right about the ‘et all’. Thanks for noticing that!
 

Bobbi Pearl

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I think she may be included in the ‘et al’ in the docket (guessing).

In the details of the files she is named:

“THE ESTATE OF BERNARD SHERMAN AND THE TRUSTEES OF THE ESTATE, and THE ESTATE OF HONEY SHERMAN AND THE TRUSTEES OF THE ESTATE
- and –
KEVIN DONOVAN”
https://www.scc-csc.ca/WebDocuments...man-and-the-Trustees-of-the-Estate-et-al..pdf

(Unless her estate was dropped from the proceedings and I’m missing it.)

ETA: Does the way they wrote it have any meaning? They didn’t write ‘The Estate of Honey and Barry Sherman and Trustees’... they separated the two. Does that mean that they’re regarding each estate as being separate?

In the link above see page 24, the counsel is for the applicants of the Estate of trustees for Barry Sherman and Honey Sherman, maybe this is where they report to KD they cannot find Honey's will so he only focus' on Barry's.
 

Lexiintoronto

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In the link above see page 24, the counsel is for the applicants of the Estate of trustees for Barry Sherman and Honey Sherman, maybe this is where they report to KD they cannot find Honey's will so he only focus' on Barry's.

Sorry, I don’t understand what you mean.

ETA: ...You might be referring to one of the estate lawyer’s previous comments at a hearing (?) The Star reported this in 2018:

“We don’t know who the beneficiaries are, if there is a will,” Sherman estate lawyer Timothy Youdan told a court hearing in July. “We don’t know if there is no will.” To proceed with the administration of the couple’s estate, Youdan filed a document asking for the “appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Honey Sherman...

...(In an email interview this week, Youdan said he was referring in court only “to the facts as known in the public sphere.” He said he was not revealing details about the order of death, the status of wills, or whether or not an individual had a will. He did not elaborate.)”

(Paywalled article): Where is Honey Sherman’s will?
 
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Bobbi Pearl

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Sorry, I don’t understand what you mean.

ETA: ...You might be referring to one of the estate lawyer’s previous comments at a hearing (?) The Star reported this in 2018:

“We don’t know who the beneficiaries are, if there is a will,” Sherman estate lawyer Timothy Youdan told a court hearing in July. “We don’t know if there is no will.” To proceed with the administration of the couple’s estate, Youdan filed a document asking for the “appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Honey Sherman...

...(In an email interview this week, Youdan said he was referring in court only “to the facts as known in the public sphere.” He said he was not revealing details about the order of death, the status of wills, or whether or not an individual had a will. He did not elaborate.)”

this link, see page 24 of PDF the individual signing the petition.

https://www.scc-csc.ca/WebDocuments...man-and-the-Trustees-of-the-Estate-et-al..pdf


(Paywalled article): Where is Honey Sherman’s will?
 

Lexiintoronto

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In the link above see page 24, the counsel is for the applicants of the Estate of trustees for Barry Sherman and Honey Sherman, maybe this is where they report to KD they cannot find Honey's will so he only focus' on Barry's.

This is page 24/30.
DE6F7540-137C-4F2A-AC8E-6736D404C084.png

I’m still not understanding

ETA: In your quote of my post above you added: ‘this link, see page 24 of PDF the individual signing the petition.

https://www.scc-csc.ca/WebDocuments...man-and-the-Trustees-of-the-Estate-et-al..pdf

(?)
 
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Satchie

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Regardless of whether lawyers are required/obligated to file original wills in probate court.. I think in this particular case, because of the notoriety of the case, any lawyer would have read about it, and at the very least, would have contacted police.. and especially considering the articles questioning whether or not H even had a will. I did a will a longggggggggggggggggg time ago, and there have been major changes since that time.. I now have a different name.. and if I were to die, how would that lawyer from that long ago, even know about my death, or that I was the same differently-named person whose will was held in his files? No idea how that stuff works. I would think an executor might have to be informed ahead of time by the deceased, about which lawyer to contact, etc.?? Or perhaps even given a copy?
There must be a formal communication to all estate lawyers in each province that the probate court is looking for any wills for person x, also known by other names, and former towns they lived in.

A lawyer who holds any wills must pass them on to another nearby firm when they retire. Every law office would have a list of wills they hold, to quickly check against requests from probate court.

It's this kind of formal process that makes probate take so long.

ETA This would also clear old wills out, so lawyers wouldn't be burdened with keeping thousands of wills for people who have died.
 
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Satchie

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(Unless her estate was dropped from the proceedings and I’m missing it.)

ETA: Does the way they wrote it have any meaning? They didn’t write ‘The Estate of Honey and Barry Sherman and Trustees’... they separated the two. Does that mean that they’re regarding each estate as being separate?
I agree, the et al' is to shorten the case title in indexes, etc, but the actual title is both estates.

Each individual person who dies has a separate estate, although there may be jointly owned assets.
 

Satchie

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snipped for focus
So I can’t understand what’s the big deal even if Honey’s Will was never found, if her assets were merely pocket change compared to the wealth of her husband. Can anyone enlighten me please?

If instead Barry had transferred considerable assets to Honey prior to his death then some of KD’d unnamed sources insinuating Honey was virtually penniless are unreliable.
IMO this goes under the maxim 'when journalistic research turns up lemons, make lemonaide.'
 

Bobbi Pearl

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This is page 24/30.
View attachment 291465

I’m still not understanding

ETA: In your quote of my post above you added: ‘this link, see page 24 of PDF the individual signing the petition.

https://www.scc-csc.ca/WebDocuments...man-and-the-Trustees-of-the-Estate-et-al..pdf

(?)
Sorry to confuse - that link was in the post I replied to, I was only noting that the counsel that signed the document was for both Honey and Barry Estates.

KD did not mention dropping Honey from the request, I suggested maybe he dropped it from the request because they could hold him up on everything and say they could not find Honey's will so we cannot complete your request.
 

MistyWaters

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Sorry to confuse - that link was in the post I replied to, I was only noting that the counsel that signed the document was for both Honey and Barry Estates.

KD did not mention dropping Honey from the request, I suggested maybe he dropped it from the request because they could hold him up on everything and say they could not find Honey's will so we cannot complete your request.

Lexiintoronto was right, I was wrong as both of the Shermans Estate files are involved in the SCC. Although the actual appeal is labeled The Estate of Barry Sherman, the documents within refer jointly to both estates. So when the SCC Judges issue their decision it will apply to both Estate files. Therefore KD is still pursuing the public release of both files.

https://www.scc-csc.ca/WebDocuments...man-and-the-Trustees-of-the-Estate-et-al..pdf
 

Lexiintoronto

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MS/HS evidently had joint ownership of at least 1 Fla condo:
Collins Avenue, Sunny Isles Beach, FL | BlockShopper.com

I wonder if HS was co-owner of some/all of MS properties (reportedly 17) in the Toronto area?
HS death without a will would likely have made that situation a mess.... HS share would go (I guess) to HS kids?

This site lists the same address, but it’s owned by MS, TRS (multiple trustees). The tax year is 2018, a year earlier than your listing 18101 Collins Ave 3406, Sunny Isles Beach, FL - MARY REICH SHECHTMAN TRS
 

dotr

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Unrelated to this case despite the same last name, noting advice given by LE regarding how best to get away with murder and possibly adhered to by the H&B Sherman killer/s
From a link i posted on another peculiar and still unsolved murder thread, fwiw, imo, speculation...

Nov 7 2020 rbbm.
Backstory: 7 years after Aliza Sherman stabbed, killer still at large

''The twist: In one of the most heartbreaking twists imaginable, Sherman's homicide is unsolved despite surveillance cameras having filmed the killer.

The footage shows someone wearing a black, hooded winter coat scurrying away from the crime scene. If life were like TV shows, someone in a lab would simply say "enhance" and solve the crime, but real life, unfortunately, doesn't work that way. The footage so far has proved useless.''

''Some worthwhile tidbits to note, however: One of Sanford Sherman's friends, Larry Shanker, testified in a deposition that Sanford had asked him how someone might get away with murder. Shanker said he replied: "Don't use your car or don't let your car be seen. Don't use a gun because it could be heard. Don't use your street clothes. Use something that would cover up your entire body, your face, your hands."

''Also, some complicated money matters came to light during the Shermans' divorce. Aliza Sherman had discovered that her husband had been shifting money from joint to private accounts to the tune of nearly $1 million.''
 

deugirtni

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Unrelated to this case despite the same last name, noting advice given by LE regarding how best to get away with murder and possibly adhered to by the H&B Sherman killer/s
From a link i posted on another peculiar and still unsolved murder thread, fwiw, imo, speculation...

Nov 7 2020 rbbm.
Backstory: 7 years after Aliza Sherman stabbed, killer still at large

''The twist: In one of the most heartbreaking twists imaginable, Sherman's homicide is unsolved despite surveillance cameras having filmed the killer.

The footage shows someone wearing a black, hooded winter coat scurrying away from the crime scene. If life were like TV shows, someone in a lab would simply say "enhance" and solve the crime, but real life, unfortunately, doesn't work that way. The footage so far has proved useless.''

''Some worthwhile tidbits to note, however: One of Sanford Sherman's friends, Larry Shanker, testified in a deposition that Sanford had asked him how someone might get away with murder. Shanker said he replied: "Don't use your car or don't let your car be seen. Don't use a gun because it could be heard. Don't use your street clothes. Use something that would cover up your entire body, your face, your hands."

''Also, some complicated money matters came to light during the Shermans' divorce. Aliza Sherman had discovered that her husband had been shifting money from joint to private accounts to the tune of nearly $1 million.''
Crazy, hey?
 

ldlager

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WINDSOR

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My question today is, what is TPS waiting for?
Assume for a moment that the TPS has all the crime scene evidence, the videos, and the electronic communication relating to the crime.
Also assume they do not have enough evidence though, that will lead to a conviction, so they are reluctant to lay any charges yet.

What do they need?
They are not likely going to get a confession,
Is there a figurative 'smoking gun'? The Perp(s) appear to be so meticulous, that is not likely.
How about a witness or informant who will testify? Those people may be overseas, and the TPS has no way of reaching them.

The TPS could be in a situation where they are pretty sure they know who the perp(s) is, but just do not have enough evidence to go to trial.

Sure would be neat if the TPS would announce what they need, maybe it is time for a press conference.
 

Lexiintoronto

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My question today is, what is TPS waiting for?
Assume for a moment that the TPS has all the crime scene evidence, the videos, and the electronic communication relating to the crime.
Also assume they do not have enough evidence though, that will lead to a conviction, so they are reluctant to lay any charges yet.

What do they need?
They are not likely going to get a confession,
Is there a figurative 'smoking gun'? The Perp(s) appear to be so meticulous, that is not likely.
How about a witness or informant who will testify? Those people may be overseas, and the TPS has no way of reaching them.

The TPS could be in a situation where they are pretty sure they know who the perp(s) is, but just do not have enough evidence to go to trial.

Sure would be neat if the TPS would announce what they need, maybe it is time for a press conference.

The pandemic has postponed some court proceedings. There’s a risk of some cases being thrown out because the defendants have the right for their case to be heard within a certain timeframe. This may be a factor with the Sherman case, IMO.

(Article on court delays: https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1763936835520 )

This article is a re-post from last year (there may not be a paywall):

“Are the Toronto Police any closer to solving the high-profile Sherman murder case?

Why do police say there is a connection between the Sherman estates and their homicide investigation?

Legal challenges to try to get answers to those and other questions are delayed until at least July, in one case, and the fall in another, due to postponements of most court hearings because of the COVID-19 pandemic. The Toronto Star is challenging sealing orders on court files related to the Shermans and cases that would have been heard in March and May will now be heard in July and October.”

Court challenges to secrecy of Barry and Honey Sherman murder case and estate files delayed by pandemic

ETA: In the above article the TPS said that there have been no delays in the Sherman investigation, it’s still active and ongoing.
 
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