Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #135

[SMK777]

I’m just curious, I hope you don’t mind…..if you knew nothing at all about this case whatsoever and if someone were to show you these two photos without disclosing it was the same person in both, would you guess the age of man in each of the photos to be the same?

Anyone else, please feel free to chime in as well. My answer would be the man in the photo on the left appears much younger than the one in the right (although we do know it’s the same man).


View attachment 297634
Delphi community comes together to support dead teens' families

Yes, I see what you mean. He appears both younger and slimmer.

 

[Barbieshell]

Here's a scenario I've pondered of late, IF the LE found proof JBC is BG - would they keep this under their hats until after he's faced trial for the little girl he SA'd / hurt / abducted (as to not attract cries of "dodgy juries that will be tainted / influenced by other possible involvement in other crimes" ?).
I just wondered how this would work, as if they come out and say "today is the day", that will probably end up being worldwide news that any potential juror in the SA / abduction case could hear about etc ? even though the court date has been set for the abduction of the little girl, would the double Delphi murder take precedence (bearing in mind that would possibly be a death penalty case etc ?)
JMOO

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[SMK777]

Here's a scenario I've pondered of late, IF the LE found proof JBC is BG - would they keep this under their hats until after he's faced trial for the little girl he SA'd / hurt / abducted (as to not attract cries of "dodgy juries that will be tainted / influenced by other possible involvement in other crimes" ?).

I think it’s possible that they might need to delay for that reason. I’m just wondering, as JBC was caught red-handed and the child told police what occurred, if there indeed will be a trial at all. Seems he will likely change his plea to Guilty at some point in time— at least I’ve seen other cases go this way.

<modsnip>

 

[Yemelyan]

Here's a scenario I've pondered of late, IF the LE found proof JBC is BG - would they keep this under their hats until after he's faced trial for the little girl he SA'd / hurt / abducted (as to not attract cries of "dodgy juries that will be tainted / influenced by other possible involvement in other crimes" ?).
I just wondered how this would work, as if they come out and say "today is the day", that will probably end up being worldwide news that any potential juror in the SA / abduction case could hear about etc ? even though the court date has been set for the abduction of the little girl, would the double Delphi murder take precedence (bearing in mind that would possibly be a death penalty case etc ?)
JMOO

<modsnip>

This is just my opinion, but....I don't think his pending case is reason to wait to announce that he's being strongly considered for or is THE suspect in the Delphi case, if LE determines that is the case. I think that idea is wishful thinking based on the fact that it's been awhile and we haven't heard anything yet.

Look at the recent case of David Haulman, who is currently charged with murdering a woman in Pennsylvania. That case is nowhere close to adjudication and they've already announced him as a suspect in the disappearances of two other women, which they say they are still investigating. Man Allegedly Confessed in Letter to Murdering Pa. Woman — Is He an International ‘Serial Killer’?

Edited to add, here's another example: while Lloyd Lee Welch was awaiting trial for the murder of the Lyons sisters, he was indicted for the sexual assault of a different young girl: Suspect in slayings of Lyon sisters faces new charges

 

[minazoe]

literally dead silent and I'm sure people in Delphi would like a definitive answer in terms of a suspect as they are still walking around wondering when the boogieman is going to strike again.

there just seems like there is a huge patchwork of crimes that can be related to one another when you draw a map of JBC's general whereabouts over the years he was not incarcerated.

there is a lot to go thru , a lot of questions...incredibly complex obviously.. and they have a guy in custody who is already lawyered up on the kidnapping sex assault.

obviously something is very serious because there hasn't been so much as a teensey leak other than he got his a$$
kicked in jail.

mOO

 

[SMK777]

This is just my opinion, but....I don't think his pending case is reason to wait to announce that he's being strongly considered for or is THE suspect in the Delphi case, if LE determines that is the case. I think that idea is wishful thinking based on the fact that it's been awhile and we haven't heard anything yet.

Look at the recent case of David Haulman, who is currently charged with murdering a woman in Pennsylvania. That case is nowhere close to adjudication and they've already announced him as a suspect in the disappearances of two other women, which they say they are still investigating. Man Allegedly Confessed in Letter to Murdering Pa. Woman — Is He an International ‘Serial Killer’?

Edited to add, here's another example: while Lloyd Lee Welch was awaiting trial for the murder of the Lyons sisters, he was indicted for the sexual assault of a different young girl: Suspect in slayings of Lyon sisters faces new charges

Thanks for this information, because I think that in light of it, we can safely assume that IF JBC should prove to have a SOLID connection to the murders of Libby and Abby, it will be announced REGARDLESS of the pending case with the 9 year old child.

Indeed, a strong case could be made that the prosecution would believe that his being charged in the Delphi case would strengthen the serious nature of the case involving the 9 year old.

 

[SMK777]

literally dead silent and I'm sure people in Delphi would like a definitive answer in terms of a suspect as they are still walking around wondering when the boogieman is going to strike again.

there just seems like there is a huge patchwork of crimes that can be related to one another when you draw a map of JBC's general whereabouts over the years he was not incarcerated.

there is a lot to go thru , a lot of questions...incredibly complex obviously.. and they have a guy in custody who is already lawyered up on the kidnapping sex assault.

obviously something is very serious because there hasn't been so much as a teensey leak other than he got his a$$
kicked in jail.

mOO

Right, I would say that the silence is probably an indication that they have not been able to rule him out. The fact that:

• He has proven to be an abductor and [attempted] murderer of a female minor
• He was in the Delphi area when Abby and Libby were murdered
• He was in the state of Iowa when the Evansdale crime took place
• He bears somewhat of a similarity to BG in height, weight, facial features
• He’s a known hiker/camper (not an urban type)

has got to be making LE careful before they exclude him in the 2017 Delphi case.

 

[Finlay]

Thanks for this information, because I think that in light of it, we can safely assume that IF JBC should prove to have a SOLID connection to the murders of Libby and Abby, it will be announced REGARDLESS of the pending case with the 9 year old child.

Indeed, a strong case could be made that the prosecution would believe that his being charged in the Delphi case would strengthen the serious nature of the case involving the 9 year old.

If LE were investigating JBCII for any other case(s) besides the Delphi murders, is there any chance they (LE) might wait until a determination had been made in the other investigations prior to announcing whether they believe JBCII was involved in the Delphi case?

 

[raja]

Here's a scenario I've pondered of late, IF the LE found proof JBC is BG - would they keep this under their hats until after he's faced trial for the little girl he SA'd / hurt / abducted (as to not attract cries of "dodgy juries that will be tainted / influenced by other possible involvement in other crimes" ?).
I just wondered how this would work, as if they come out and say "today is the day", that will probably end up being worldwide news that any potential juror in the SA / abduction case could hear about etc ? even though the court date has been set for the abduction of the little girl, would the double Delphi murder take precedence (bearing in mind that would possibly be a death penalty case etc ?)
JMOO

And just as an aside, I'm being taunted by ads for these bloody caps on the Daily Mail online.....

It seems to me that would be cruel to the family to have to wait.

 

[minazoe]

I wonder if they could ever tie the abby libby DNA to any other cases? do they do that? like do they see if they have other unsolved cases with matching DNA?

 

[SMK777]

I wonder if they could ever tie the abby libby DNA to any other cases? do they do that? like do they see if they have other unsolved cases with matching DNA?

I believe so, if it’s the killer’s DNA and an adequate sample. However I’m far from sure LE has anything like that.

 

[minazoe]

oh yes this could be , like a tiny section of fabric or something...

 

[Inthedetails]

The image I attached shows the trail which leads from the NW approach to MHB, down to the general area of the CS less than 1/4 mile walk from there. I believe the killer used this trail or perhaps another, more challenging trail, to get out of the gorge after leaving the CS.

I was surprised to see how easy it is to access this trail, it is on the M family property. There are videos on YT showing how easy it is to navigate this trail, in fact in February it would have been downright easy, due to the lack of vegetation.

I'll go along with what LE has indicated for some time now, that BG used the main trail to get back to a vehicle at the abandoned CPS building. The traffic on the trail happens in what I call "bursts", and BG had to know this. I noticed it when I was there in October, one minute you're around 20 other people on the trail, next minute you're alone.

He would have had a little bit of concealment for a vehicle there, plus the traffic is sparse on C.R. 300 to begin with. Versus parking on the other side of IN 25, and walking across Freedom Bridge like most people do.

I hope this helps, I try to use some logic and a general sense that BG had to conserve energy and make his movements as short as possible that day.

If BG did indeed get back on to the main trail near to the bridge, it would have taken him mere minutes to get back to the building, maybe 12 minutes.

JMO

Very helpful information - thank you for thoughts after being there in person.

We take cross-country road trips and I've been to Delphi (before the murders). I might visit the bridge and park in the future, and it will be quite moving, I'm sure, since I feel close to this case. Of course by then the park will be different as there are plans in place for improving the bridge, paths, etc.

Thanks again.

 

[Yemelyan]

I wonder if they could ever tie the abby libby DNA to any other cases? do they do that? like do they see if they have other unsolved cases with matching DNA?

If the DNA sample that they have in the Delphi case is a full sample (all 20 loci that are used in CODIS, the national database), then yes, any time a new sample is uploaded from any other case it has the potential to be matched. The Delphi sample would have already been run for possible matches at the time it was uploaded and that would continue on an ongoing basis.

If it is a partial sample (say, 9 loci only) then no, any "matches" would be at a lower confidence level that's not enough to say it is a pure hit.

Indiana does not have partial matching in state criminal databases (by state law) so that option is off the table at this point. If the law changes in the future, that option could be visited.

MOO.

 

[minazoe]

thank you.

 

[Barbieshell]

It seems to me that would be cruel to the family to have to wait.

I totally agree, I just wasn't sure of the legalities is all - I'd love for "today to be the day", I think we all would tbh (well, maybe apart from BG of course ).

 

[SMK777]

If LE were investigating JBCII for any other case(s) besides the Delphi murders, is there any chance they (LE) might wait until a determination had been made in the other investigations prior to announcing whether they believe JBCII was involved in the Delphi case?

Do you mean a less serious case?

 

[sleuther28]

Right, I would say that the silence is probably an indication that they have not been able to rule him out. The fact that:

• He has proven to be an abductor and [attempted] murderer of a female minor
• He was in the Delphi area when Abby and Libby were murdered
• He was in the state of Iowa when the Evansdale crime took place
• He bears somewhat of a similarity to BG in height, weight, facial features
• He’s a known hiker/camper (not an urban type)

has got to be making LE careful before they exclude him in the 2017 Delphi case.

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this guy turns out to be a serial killer.

 

[Barbieshell]

If the DNA sample that they have in the Delphi case is a full sample (all 20 loci that are used in CODIS, the national database), then yes, any time a new sample is uploaded from any other case it has the potential to be matched. The Delphi sample would have already been run for possible matches at the time it was uploaded and that would continue on an ongoing basis.

If it is a partial sample (say, 9 loci only) then no, any "matches" would be at a lower confidence level that's not enough to say it is a pure hit.

Indiana does not have partial matching in state criminal databases (by state law) so that option is off the table at this point. If the law changes in the future, that option could be visited.

MOO.

There's also the possibility that whatever DNA they have (say it was on an item) can only be tested once (sure it degrades after the first round of testing)......like they get "1 shot" at it etc.
Obviously they'll always have the initial result they extracted (if they did indeed do so)....if no hit on a full match you would hope they'd look at partial ones too and try to work outwards as such, DNA testing has advanced significantly over the years etc.
JMOO

 

[SMK777]

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this guy turns out to be a serial killer.

Because of the circumstances involving the 9 year old, it’s got to be considered a possibility.

Years ago my sister, unfortunately, had a lot of petty-criminal types as boyfriends; they had been jailed numerous times. Not one of them ever did anything of this nature. Not even close.

So I’d say JBC has proven he’s not a petty criminal.