Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6
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Federico_A
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Because evidence. The body was found in the cirqe de la glere, 100m (horizontally) from the path. Therefore she cannot have been on the Sacroux side of the col.
Perhaps she didn't have enough time to go up to Sacroux. Probably she had noticed the 45 degree path heading up to the ridge beneath Pic de la Glere when she was approaching the Port and decided that was an easier option for a picture. I think there is no view of the French side up the Sacroux path until the very summit.
Not sure why there is still speculation on this because we know roughly where she was found.
Those mind boggling stats are also an indication of how almost commonplace serious accidents were roundabouts where ED was hiking.
RickshawFan
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Those red arrows are catching my attention. There's actually a lightly traveled trail right there, and the approach to the PicdelaG looks easier than out of the PortdelaG.
RedHaus
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@otto, I applaud your patience with rehashing so much information we've covered over the last 9 months. You must be exhausted!
I'd like to add, once again, an excerpt of a 22/11 ED text from the LBT Global Dossier, p. 7, with my (and some others') interpretation:
16:06:
“Still in the same area..." - wouldn't this mean the Spain side of the border and possibly mean she intended to stay at the same place she stayed 21/11 (C dl B)?
"...Tomorrow heading for Port de le Glere or something spelt like that..." - wouldn't this mean on 23/11 she is heading directly to P dl G?
"...Might dip into France..." - wouldn't this logically mean she would cross the border into France after she made it to P dl G?
"...Hoping Refuge Venasque has a winter room..." - wouldn't this logically mean she would try to stay at R d V after P dl G?
Now, one could argue ED was not being logical in her last recorded texts per the Dossier and we have discussed why that could be ad nauseum here as well. And why DC interpreted this information with an opposite logic is unknown to us since we do not know the content of ED / DC's final WhatsApp and ED's calls with family, IMO.
Federico_A
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The X is where I propose she fell from the cliff onto the crags beneath, not where the skull was found. The skull was found much lower down the scree and was rather obviously carried there by lammergeiers (some might consider an avalanche but I don't know why when lammergeiers provide a perfectly efficient explanation).That image is from the Port de la Glere. There might be a problem with the skull location.
View attachment 308638
Close up of Port de la Glere
View attachment 308639
Your skull location is at Port de la Glere, and the body is half in France and half in Spain.
The skull was found at 2200 meters, so this is not the correct skull location.
Google Earth
If she had a yellow sleeping matt, it was most likely rolled up and attached to the top or bottom of the pack. That's where I kept my sleeping bag when I hiked. Are there any photos of her carrying the backpack from the back?
If she fell 300 feet, wearing her backpack, would she drop her walking sticks first? I would. I wouldn't want to be impaled during the fall. I would try to turn during the fall so I landed on my back on the pack. The yellow sleeping matt could have been dislodged from the backpack during the fall, and land in the same crevice.
The clothing, backpack and other equipment were some meters from her skeletal body. Snow melt, rain, gravity could have caused the bones to wash some meters downward.
Federico_A
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Sensitive people look away.
As the yellow mat keeps being mentioned, I wonder if she was found lying on it? That would mean she survived the fall and was stuck on a ledge unable to get either down or up (broken legs?) but was not visible from the path. If she still had all gear - clothes, sleeping bag, some food - then she could have been stuck there for ages (a couple of weeks?) until finally succumbing when the snow came. Nightmare scenario really.
Could she have been found with a better search? Of course. I think the searchers made some terrible choices by spreading far too wide - including Maladeta and the Spanish border east of Sauvegarde, which she never mentioned going to. The French loop was the biggest false assumption, and that diverted a lot of resources unnecessarily. She did actually say she intended to go to Port de la Glere so that should have been top priority, and obviously they should have used drones to check those cliffs, when obviously they didn't, or not very well.
Easy to say in hindsight, but it seems they didn't triage the search areas properly.
As the yellow mat keeps being mentioned, I wonder if she was found lying on it? That would mean she survived the fall and was stuck on a ledge unable to get either down or up (broken legs?) but was not visible from the path. If she still had all gear - clothes, sleeping bag, some food - then she could have been stuck there for ages (a couple of weeks?) until finally succumbing when the snow came. Nightmare scenario really.
Could she have been found with a better search? Of course. I think the searchers made some terrible choices by spreading far too wide - including Maladeta and the Spanish border east of Sauvegarde, which she never mentioned going to. The French loop was the biggest false assumption, and that diverted a lot of resources unnecessarily. She did actually say she intended to go to Port de la Glere so that should have been top priority, and obviously they should have used drones to check those cliffs, when obviously they didn't, or not very well.
Easy to say in hindsight, but it seems they didn't triage the search areas properly.
RedHaus
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I think you'd like this @Federico_A.
I was browsing at an antique store this afternoon (in the U.S.) and in a small group of vintage bird prints, perhaps 10 at the most, I saw this print!
Her skull, skeletal body and equipment were not found at the Pic de Sacroux. However, if she was at the Port de la Glere and wanted a photo, she would have hiked Pic de Sacroux, not the Pic de la Glere. There is no trail on Pic de la Glere.
The skull was found at the elevation of 2200 meters, near the trail. The x that you marked on your map is at the Port de la Glere, the border between France and Spain. The x is not on the trail between Port de la Glere and Refuge de Venasque.
@otto, I applaud your patience with rehashing so much information we've covered over the last 9 months. You must be exhausted!
I'd like to add, once again, an excerpt of a 22/11 ED text from the LBT Global Dossier, p. 7, with my (and some others') interpretation:
16:06:
“Still in the same area..." - wouldn't this mean the Spain side of the border and possibly mean she intended to stay at the same place she stayed 21/11 (C dl B)?
"...Tomorrow heading for Port de le Glere or something spelt like that..." - wouldn't this mean on 23/11 she is heading directly to P dl G?
"...Might dip into France..." - wouldn't this logically mean she would cross the border into France after she made it to P dl G?
"...Hoping Refuge Venasque has a winter room..." - wouldn't this logically mean she would try to stay at R d V after P dl G?
Now, one could argue ED was not being logical in her last recorded texts per the Dossier and we have discussed why that could be ad nauseum here as well. And why DC interpreted this information with an opposite logic is unknown to us since we do not know the content of ED / DC's final WhatsApp and ED's calls with family, IMO.
That's true. We don't know whether she added route information when Dan called her as they signed off Whatsapp. I think route info was texted and the phone call from Dan was more personal. If there was more route information, I believe that Dan would have released it. He wanted her found - the more information the better.
Should we assume that Dan's route means she provided more information during the phone call? For some reason, because he has not said that she clarified her route during the phone call, I think what she texted is all there is.
Thing is, what she wrote in text messages and how Dan interpreted that information - very likely trying to make sense of her last location, the time she was there, and then he turned her message around to fit her location. He did not take into consideration that "still in the same area" could mean "overnight in the same location," and "hiking to another port tomorrow, might dip into France" might mean "tomorrow."
Federico_A
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1st sentence: correct.
2nd sentence: maybe she did go up Sacroux also, but it's academic as that's not where she fell from.
3rd sentence: forget Pic de la Glere. Given the vertical and horizontal distances from the path, Esther could only have fallen from point X, and there is a faint path to that point.
To clarify: the X is on the ridge about 100m east Port de la Glere - it's not at the Port and it's not high on Pic de la Glere either. The path to X ascends 45 degrees from the main trail that runs between the Port and the trailhead down on the main road in Spain, from where I believe she ascended to the Port. Again, I do not think she did the French loop at all but again, it's academic whether she did or not.
Federico_A
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Thank you. They are awesome birds. A bit scary for the living room wall though.
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RedHaus
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I just keep wondering, as I mentioned up thread, whether where ED died and where she came to rest are different locations.
I have come to wonder IF ED committed suicide on or near the ridge of Pic dl G, perhaps sitting on her mat in Lotus Pose watching the sunset against the Maladeta Glacier to the West on 23/11, after hiking specifically there from the C dl B in Spain? And further wonder IF when she died she, her mat and her kit toppled down the slope backwards coming to rest as it all did and where it did? Alternatively, IF she had found a nook between rocks and died, could snow melt have washed her body / kit down?
I have come to wonder IF ED committed suicide on or near the ridge of Pic dl G, perhaps sitting on her mat in Lotus Pose watching the sunset against the Maladeta Glacier to the West on 23/11, after hiking specifically there from the C dl B in Spain? And further wonder IF when she died she, her mat and her kit toppled down the slope backwards coming to rest as it all did and where it did? Alternatively, IF she had found a nook between rocks and died, could snow melt have washed her body / kit down?
RickshawFan
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Snipped for focus
The mattress and sleeping bag go IN the pack. These days, they roll up tiny. They would also be destroyed in one little tumble or encounter with a bush. $600+ or so.
What does go outside is a closed cell foam pad (often, those rolled-up blue things). Some people carry those in summer. They are de rigueur for everyone in the backcountry (not just backpackers, but also hikers) in cold conditions, because they actually DO insulate you underneath (they have a relatively high R-value), unlike those ultra-light air mattresses. They can be cut to size. They can also be used for splints, sleds, all kinds of things. I still have mine from 1983. They're indestructible.
If I want to be cushy when I sleep in cold weather, I put a piece of closed-cell foam on top of my ultralight air mattress. Note: on top, where it'll insulate your body, not underneath. You want to keep from sleeping on a slab of frigid air.
Perhaps. Inside my backpack - always for smaller stuff. Matts and sleeping bags were kept under the straps to make everything more functional - but perhaps today hikers keep those things in the backpack.
RickshawFan
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There actually is a way up PicdelaG and the bottom of it is easily seen in the PortdelaG. This is my source: Montesymasdebucuesa: 42-14. PICO DE LA GLERA POR LA ARISTA SUDOESTE. 6-6-14. It has photos of the ascent of PicdelaG.
Point X is not even through the Port de la Glere. Do you think she fell at the Port?
RickshawFan
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I'm thinking ED got to the Port from the Spanish side and saw the obvious little way to ascend PicdelaG. The alternative was to take a cutoff when she was almost all the way to the Port and head up that light trail over the grassy, easy, slope that ends in a precipice. It's on one of your most recent maps.
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