Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #137

[carbuff]

They were able to quickly ascertain that DN was not interesting anymore once they had a physical eye on him.

They talked to him, correct?

DN was such a good candidate. Another sex offender sleeping under bridges...but honestly if you take a look at JBC's Facebook there is a photo of him in an orange polo shirt and jeans , standing on an overlook..and there you see the body of BG the hands, the feet everything you can just put that jacket and hat on him in your mind and he fits...the odd body type with the massive sloping shoulders ..also there is another shot of him with a group of men behind him..he is in the foreground..again his hands placed at his pockets as his arms are short and at odds with his torso..his head is positioned just as BG's is the same ...down and glancing upward..like he's feigning humility..

maybe when the talked to DN they just knew he wasn't the right guy...but at any rate when they came back from CO they were a pretty definite NO on DN.

mOO

Very good points. Yes, somebody from LE--ISP I think--went out to Colorado and spoke with DN. And yeah, they were pretty definite about him not being the guy. I suspect--and this is just my opinion--that they have some information about the crime or the crime scene that they can use to rule out potential suspects.

 

[LunaInvidia]

Not being a snapchat user and am trying to understand how things work on the site can I ask those who are users for some help with correct/more detailed ways its used:-

1. When you upload a photo I understand it stay live and visible to the whoever you allow to see it for a period of 24?
2. After that period is disappears unless you decide on other options. either upload again or place it elsewhere like in memories?

3. The screenshot of the uploaded photo shows 7 hours ago so presumably this time of the upload would increase automatically as the day passes.
How does that 7 hour time screenshot relate to the day of the crime as the girls bodies were found the next day? ..

4. If you choose to upload a photo again after the 24 hours has expired how does that hour time show on the upload screen?

You can either send it directly to individual users, who will see it once (or twice if settings allow for a replay, this must be done immediately. If you navigate away from the main Snapchat page you lose the option.), or you can add it to a Story, which shows for 24 hours to anyone who has access to it. These days there are different story options, I can't remember if they had those in 2017, though. Assuming it is shared only to your personal story, anyone who has you added can see it. You can view your own story and see the image again for the same 24 hour period but it is not saved anywhere by default. (So if I send a snap to just one person, even I can't see it again.) Individual snaps can be saved to memories, and in that case you can access them whenever you like, as long as you save it in that 24 hour time period. (there is a feature where certain stories can be automatically saved to memory, but I don't know if that was a feature then or not.) Memories are not public but can be reposted, in which case it will say "From Memories" and will stay in a story for 24 hours.

I don't know how the 7 hour time screenshot relates, other than it would have been taken as a screenshot seven hours after it was posted.

If you didn't save the picture in some fashion you can't upload the same one again. You can, however, upload images from the camera roll on your phone, in which case it will say "22 hours ago from Camera Roll" (or however long it's been since you actually took the picture.) You COULD screenshot a snap, and then upload that screenshot, but you'd have two different timestamps on them- one from the first post and one from the upload- if you didn't edit the first one out. If you did it would just say "x time ago from Camera Roll" and will refer to the time it has been since the screenshot was taken and not the original image.

Hope that makes sense, I've never had to really think about how it works in words before!

 

[MistyWaters]

They were able to quickly ascertain that DN was not interesting anymore once they had a physical eye on him.

They talked to him, correct?

DN was such a good candidate. Another sex offender sleeping under bridges...but honestly if you take a look at JBC's Facebook there is a photo of him in an orange polo shirt and jeans , standing on an overlook..and there you see the body of BG the hands, the feet everything you can just put that jacket and hat on him in your mind and he fits...the odd body type with the massive sloping shoulders ..also there is another shot of him with a group of men behind him..he is in the foreground..again his hands placed at his pockets as his arms are short and at odds with his torso..his head is positioned just as BG's is the same ...down and glancing upward..like he's feigning humility..

maybe when the talked to DN they just knew he wasn't the right guy...but at any rate when they came back from CO they were a pretty definite NO on DN.

mOO

I earlier replied to your prior comments regarding the timing of LEs visit to DN with links, see post #288 if you missed it. DN was visited in Colorado in Sept/17 and it wasn’t until Feb/18 when LE announced they weren’t much interested. So it’s not as if the visit five months in the past was the reason LE immediately drew their attention away from him. What was it, we just don’t know.

It’s pointless to use an inaccurate comparison in order to strengthen LEs interest in JBC, if that’s your purpose. JMO

 

[Finlay]

You can either send it directly to individual users, who will see it once (or twice if settings allow for a replay, this must be done immediately. If you navigate away from the main Snapchat page you lose the option.), or you can add it to a Story, which shows for 24 hours to anyone who has access to it. These days there are different story options, I can't remember if they had those in 2017, though. Assuming it is shared only to your personal story, anyone who has you added can see it. You can view your own story and see the image again for the same 24 hour period but it is not saved anywhere by default. (So if I send a snap to just one person, even I can't see it again.) Individual snaps can be saved to memories, and in that case you can access them whenever you like, as long as you save it in that 24 hour time period. (there is a feature where certain stories can be automatically saved to memory, but I don't know if that was a feature then or not.) Memories are not public but can be reposted, in which case it will say "From Memories" and will stay in a story for 24 hours.

I don't know how the 7 hour time screenshot relates, other than it would have been taken as a screenshot seven hours after it was posted.

If you didn't save the picture in some fashion you can't upload the same one again. You can, however, upload images from the camera roll on your phone, in which case it will say "22 hours ago from Camera Roll" (or however long it's been since you actually took the picture.) You COULD screenshot a snap, and then upload that screenshot, but you'd have two different timestamps on them- one from the first post and one from the upload- if you didn't edit the first one out. If you did it would just say "x time ago from Camera Roll" and will refer to the time it has been since the screenshot was taken and not the original image.

Hope that makes sense, I've never had to really think about how it works in words before!

I'm not much of a snapchat user myself ...but, isn't there also a snap-map option? If someone had sent a snap to a friend or posted it to their "story", would others that weren't their "friend" be able to see it? I'm not sure how long the snap-map has been around but I think if someone posts something to the map (or maybe they would just post it to their story and open up access to it so that anyone on the map could see it?), then others that aren't their friends can see it as well. And I think those type of posts may even stick around for longer than 24 hours (maybe?). ...although again, I have no idea how those things behaved back when this all went down.

 

[Charlot123]

I just got an idea, and I am posting it here. It is not quite about the girls, simply, what to do with all these tips.

I think that the tips database that the Delphi murders case has created might be the largest one in the country, as the reward is huge. And it is very likely that some serial killers are in these tips. Maybe the Bridge Guy is not, although, unlikely, but in itself, the tips, the names, present a huge raw database.

So… I hope that for what I propose, one can simply write a search program. And I propose to use the tip names pool as the database.

Say, there is a name in the tip pool. For this name, one has to write all the addresses where the person has lived (phone numbers, too). And then, write all addresses of his/hers parents, aunts/uncles, grandparents, children, nephews/nieces. Maybe even best friends.

And then make a raw list of all disappearances, murders, sexual assaults in the country.

And run one list against the other. One could change the parameters, such as “within 10 miles”, or “within 30 miles”.

(Another run would be running phone numbers agains the lists of ones that pinged at nearby cell towers on the day of the crime).

And when there are matches, check the dates - if these people could physically be at the places around the murders.

I think this comparison might allow to catch several serial killers. Not necessarily involved in the Delphi case; I am now thinking that “tip bases” could be combined.

I think that all of it can be done via programs.

The idea came from DNA criminology, where the element is building and comparing trees. What I thought was comparing “address trees” with “sexual crime” trees, since modern sex offenders know better than leave DNA. But they have to know the places of their crimes.

Someone mentioned that the Delphi LE group is very small. Small group dealing with large tips base is not productive. While tips can be submitted for different reasons, I believe that “scared” might be the uniting world.

What further filters to use for the names one gets - maybe mode of killing/attack? There is a reason why Delphi and Evansdale are combined, or MB’s case is mentioned there.

In short, when there case has stalled but there is a wealth of information, it can at least be used for other purposes?

 

[snowman 007]

You are correct we only get seconds of a video cip if as we led to believe the person is walking on the bridge he only takes 3 steps that 3rd step doesnt hit the ground before the video ends. Its is only because someone has taken that clip superimposed it on the bridge and played it on repeat with the image becoming larger that leads people to believe the person travelled the length of that bridge. That in turn has led some people to compile a whole set of events leading up to the crime which in reality may never have happened.

I think its very important to concentrate only on what we are shown and what LE are asking for in relation to that not what happened before or after!
1. Do you recognise his mannerisms.
2. Do you recognise his gait.

When LE released the sketch of the older male with goatee wearing a cap they said that the sketch represented the best image of the person in the video clip. In a press conference 2 years laterthey released the the second sketch of the younger clean shaven male they said that the older male had now become secondary. So how should we now view the importance of the male in the video it appears LE still think he played a role in the events of the days as they still include the sketch and the video?

In not to releasing timelines of many of the details released to the public LE has made it very difficut for anyone looking at this case to piece the events of that day together.

You mention that the third person may have been on the otherside of the bridge. Again I would say from what we can see from the video we have no way of knowing the direction the person in the clip took after the video took after the video stopped. On which side of the bridge he finnished his walk on and wether this side was the same side the girls finnished up on.
I would urge caution in presuming the girls finnshed the walk across the bridge on the same side as internet postings say they did.
Have LE ever confirmed which side of the bridge the girls finnshed there walk on?

Ok has the full video clip of the bridge and or other parts of there walk upto the bridge been released yet and have the police got a video editing company to look over the video 2 see weather its been tampered with at all

 

[LunaInvidia]

I'm not much of a snapchat user myself ...but, isn't there also a snap-map option? If someone had sent a snap to a friend or posted it to their "story", would others that weren't their "friend" be able to see it? I'm not sure how long the snap-map has been around but I think if someone posts something to the map (or maybe they would just post it to their story and open up access to it so that anyone on the map could see it?), then others that aren't their friends can see it as well. And I think those type of posts may even stick around for longer than 24 hours (maybe?). ...although again, I have no idea how those things behaved back when this all went down.

Snapmap does work a bit differently but it wasn't released until the summer of 2017 so wouldn't have affected A&L's posting. (It does make things visible longer but you have to specify you want a snap uploaded to the map. I've only ever used it for posting adverts for work.)

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I was another one pretty strongly on the DN is BG bandwagon and I don't think I have really changed my mind. Not being able to connect him is a long way from saying he didn't do it, and he has some very hinky things going on in his past.

I suppose for me the thing that's still the most shocking is how many possible people we've found in just this relatively small area who have committed heinous crimes against children. It's horrifying.

Unlike most of the POIs in this case, DN had a very checkable alibi. He claimed he was with his wife at her OB/GYN appointment and ultrasound the day of the murders. She couldn’t remember whether he came or not. Weird I always thought.
Anyway, this should have been easy enough to check by security camera or doctor’s notes or doctor’s personel. Also easy enough for LE to say, “we cleared him, he was at the doctor’s with his wife”, but all we got was “we’re not that interested in him anymore”. Poorly done.

 

[minazoe]

yes it was very vague the way they shrugged him off..as we all remember the word was he could not be cleared at the doctors office because no one remembered and there was no log for additional visitors..( is this right?)
this is what I remember...and then all the sudden it was like he was cleared so no one knows what went down with that..There was a lot of very weird stuff with DN for sure! He was a good candidate..and at that time I think it was for good reason..he was totally the kind of person we were looking for..

sociopathic sex offender with history of violence.

JBC also fits this bill to a tee. mOO

 

[Falcon500]

yes it was very vague the way they shrugged him off..as we all remember the word was he could not be cleared at the doctors office because no one remembered and there was no log for additional visitors..( is this right?)
this is what I remember...and then all the sudden it was like he was cleared so no one knows what went down with that..There was a lot of very weird stuff with DN for sure! He was a good candidate..and at that time I think it was for good reason..he was totally the kind of person we were looking for..

sociopathic sex offender with history of violence.

JBC also fits this bill to a tee. mOO

Again.....the police do not CLEAR people. They might decide not to give attention or move on to the next guy. To use word CLEAR is inviting a disaster in court.

 

[Justice101]

….

 

[raja]

yes it was very vague the way they shrugged him off..as we all remember the word was he could not be cleared at the doctors office because no one remembered and there was no log for additional visitors..( is this right?)
this is what I remember...and then all the sudden it was like he was cleared so no one knows what went down with that..There was a lot of very weird stuff with DN for sure! He was a good candidate..and at that time I think it was for good reason..he was totally the kind of person we were looking for..

sociopathic sex offender with history of violence.

JBC also fits this bill to a tee. mOO

I don't remember that he was a sex offender. Was he?

 

[minazoe]

I don't remember that he was a sex offender. Was he?

yes, he has been in trouble for exposing himself to a woman and a child in a rest stop bathroom ( I think it was a rest stop) ...and another time I think ...a couple of times..mOO

 

[raja]

yes, he has been in trouble for exposing himself to a woman and a child in a rest stop bathroom ( I think it was a rest stop) ...and another time I think ...a couple of times..mOO

Thank you I did not remember that but now it is coming back to me.

 

[carbuff]

Unlike most of the POIs in this case, DN had a very checkable alibi. He claimed he was with his wife at her OB/GYN appointment and ultrasound the day of the murders. She couldn’t remember whether he came or not. Weird I always thought.
Anyway, this should have been easy enough to check by security camera or doctor’s notes or doctor’s personel. Also easy enough for LE to say, “we cleared him, he was at the doctor’s with his wife”, but all we got was “we’re not that interested in him anymore”. Poorly done.

That's why I think they have some information that hasn't been released that lets them rule people out pretty quickly.

 

[minazoe]

what kind of something do you think it is? maybe it's his voice? his feet? posture? what could it be? where they have to see him and talk to him to cross him off the hot list...his answers to specific questions? what questions?

oh how I wish we knew...mOO

 

[carbuff]

what kind of something do you think it is? maybe it's his voice? his feet? posture? what could it be? where they have to see him and talk to him to cross him off the hot list...his answers to specific questions? what questions?

oh how I wish we knew...mOO

I don't know. It could be a question he doesn't know the answer to, maybe? I don't think it would be an identifying characteristic that hasn't been made public, because they could just ask LE in the other jurisdiction to check it for them. Maybe a combination of all of that?

 

[Thelastleg]

I don't know. It could be a question he doesn't know the answer to, maybe? I don't think it would be an identifying characteristic that hasn't been made public, because they could just ask LE in the other jurisdiction to check it for them. Maybe a combination of all of that?

I like your thinking. Just adding my speculation, perhaps they have evidence of being left/right handed.

 

[Pimlipo]

We probably know 10% of what went down that day compared to LE. If they are not interested in DN then why are people who don’t even know any real details of the crime? DN and JBC are obviously two nasty individuals but there are millions of people nationwide and it could be any one of thousands of creeps we have never even heard of.

 

[flashy09]

That's why I think they have some information that hasn't been released that lets them rule people out pretty quickly.

I hope so. Could it be they just have a solid alibi?