Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Charles Vallow, 62, Oct 2019 *Arrests* #63

[pizzaman12]

JMOO but it’s a pretty weak argument - to keep the cases together - because it may be difficult to keep track of filings, if they’re only filed in one case and not the other, ESPECIALLY when you say you’ve already been providing “courtesy copies” to the other respective parties so far. I think Attorney Blake what a much stronger argument before she added that part in.

There was much more listed in regards to supporting a joined trial.

 

[MTW2011]

There was much more listed in regards to supporting a joined trial.

oh yes, I would agree with that. I just thought adding that detail in, overall, didn’t help them much. In my opinion it was as if the State said - with other words - “and it can also be difficult to ensure all parties involved are receiving everything filed by their co-defendant, but we’ve been giving copies of everything we have filed to both parties every time just as a courtesy, your Honor”

talking about the difficulties in keeping two separate cases & the respective parties up-to-date with what one party may file and then saying you have been giving copies to everyone so far (effectively resolving the issue you’re using to argue in keeping the cases together) — that’s what I was trying to explain. The State’s argument I thought was good and certainly supported by numerous case law, but this small detail I thought didn’t help support their argument/reasoning. that’s all I was trying to express, but I didn’t do a good enough job the first time. I always appreciate hearing how others perceive hearings like this, so thank you.

 

[pizzaman12]

oh yes, I would agree with that. I just thought adding that detail in, overall, didn’t help them much. In my opinion it was as if the State said - with other words - “and it can also be difficult to ensure all parties involved are receiving everything filed by their co-defendant, but we’ve been giving copies of everything we have filed to both parties every time just as a courtesy, your Honor”

talking about the difficulties in keeping two separate cases & the respective parties up-to-date with what one party may file and then saying you have been giving copies to everyone so far (effectively resolving the issue you’re using to argue in keeping the cases together) — that’s what I was trying to explain. The State’s argument I thought was good and certainly supported by numerous case law, but this small detail I thought didn’t help support their argument/reasoning. that’s all I was trying to express, but I didn’t do a good enough job the first time. I always appreciate hearing how others perceive hearings like this, so thank you.

I always enjoy reading your posts. You're not swayed much by the emotional response but really look at the details objectively and always well thought out posts/replies.

I'm curious as to what exactly happened with the treatment. There is obviously an issue based on the motion/hearing last week. My head goes to that the state feels LV would/should have been restored to competency or will be shortly. There are numerous things holding up proceeding so why is a LV any more of an issue than the next? You could see it between RW & JP the other day. Basically JP was stating they've agreed on a continuance since they don't have the info yet for him to be able to "effectively argue his position". Yet, he chimed in really quick to go on the record that it wasn't to "wait till Miss Vallow's case is on the plate ready to go".

Obviously, just my speculation and I'm wrong all the time. I could be reading the situation completely wrong. However, competency is a pretty low bar and I was surprised this was extended but sounds like nothing has really happened in the first 90 days.

 

[mickey2942]

All along, we have determined that CD has much better counsel.

 

[Tortoise]

I think the State has a point. Judge should have said he won't issue any effectively prejudicial rulings on Chad's motions that Lori can't be represented in while her case is stayed. Such as motion to sever, motion to move trial, motion to consume DNA. I don't even know why Archibald was there, he couldn't make an argument for Lori's case at the hearing, when she is the one who has the risk of being prejudiced. Judge should have agreed to stay both cases, not indefinitely, as the State requested, IMO. I thought the judge didn't seem to address the State's arguments or the law the State presented.

(Blake should ditch the chewing gum.)

 

[Forever Young]

I'm wrong about stuff all the time, too, but my "take away" is that the State was saying that as long as Lori's case is stayed, Chad's should remain stayed, too. That what affects one, affects the other.

Underneath all that, IMO, is a near brilliant strategic move to stave off a possible plan by the Defense to remove Lori from trial by her being perpetually incompetent. Maybe if Chad has to wait on her, she will get better a little quicker?

 

[MTW2011]

Now the Order from Judge Boyce is accessible to the public, ordering the State Hospital share a copy of the "18-211" report with the State. The State is also Motioning for an order to be given to the Hospital staff so that they can talk about this issue and interview them about the status of Lori's treatment.

According to Idaho code, the 18-211 report is -

18-211. EXAMINATION OF DEFENDANT — APPOINTMENT OF PSYCHIATRISTS AND LICENSED PSYCHOLOGISTS — HOSPITALIZATION — REPORT. (1) Whenever there is reason to doubt the defendant’s fitness to proceed as set forth in section 18-210, Idaho Code, the court shall appoint at least one (1) qualified psychiatrist or licensed psychologist or shall request the director of the department of health and welfare to designate at least one (1) qualified psychiatrist or licensed psychologist to examine and report upon the mental condition of the defendant to assist counsel with defense or understand the proceedings. The appointed examiner shall also evaluate whether the defendant lacks capacity to make informed decisions about treatment. The costs of examination shall be paid by the defendant if he is financially able. The determination of ability to pay shall be made in accordance with chapter 8, title 19, Idaho Code.
(2) Within three (3) days, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and legal holidays, of the appointment or designation, the examiner shall determine the best location for the examination. If practical, the examination shall be conducted locally on an outpatient basis.
(3) If the examiner determines that confinement is necessary for purposes of the examination, the court may order the defendant to be confined to a jail, a hospital, or other suitable facility for that purpose for a period not exceeding thirty (30) days. The order of confinement shall require the county sheriff to transport the defendant to and from the facility and shall notify the facility of any known medical, behavioral, or security requirements of the defendant. The court, upon request, may make available to the examiner any court records relating to the defendant.
(4) In such examination, any method may be employed that is accepted by the examiner’s profession for the examination of those alleged not to be competent to assist counsel in their defense.
(5) Upon completion of the examination, a report shall be submitted to the court and shall include the following:
(a) A description of the nature of the examination;
(b) A diagnosis or evaluation of the mental condition of the defendant;
(c) An opinion as to the defendant’s capacity to understand the proceedings against him and to assist in his own defense;
(d) An opinion whether the defendant lacks the capacity to make informed decisions about treatment. "Lack of capacity to make informed decisions about treatment" means the defendant’s inability, by reason of his mental condition, to achieve a rudimentary understanding of the purpose, nature, and possible significant risks and benefits of treatment, after conscientious efforts at explanation.
(6) If the examination cannot be conducted by reason of the unwillingness of the defendant to participate therein, the report shall so state and shall include, if possible, an opinion as to whether such unwillingness of the defendant was the result of mental disease or defect.
--

It makes sense why the State would want this information and now they should get it, though no idea of a timeline, at some point from the hospital staff.

 

[pizzaman12]

I personally think she'll be restored to competency prior to the 180 days. We'll see

 

[Hazelnutty]

Was Lori incompetent all along, or just since her arrest? Did the arrest snap her out of her delusions? I'm so confused about her ongoing incompetence to stand trial. ( also, not sure I'm wording this properly).

Jmo!

 

[pizzaman12]

Was Lori incompetent all along, or just since her arrest? Did the arrest snap her out of her delusions? I'm so confused about her ongoing incompetence to stand trial. ( also, not sure I'm wording this properly).

Jmo!

I personally think she has mental issues and probably isn't competent. I don't think she's faking anything. I think she has gotten worse. This would gel with many people who have said this just isn't the LV we know. Colby being a perfect example. However, I think she can be restored to competency. Just my opinion

 

[LinasK]

Was Lori incompetent all along, or just since her arrest? Did the arrest snap her out of her delusions? I'm so confused about her ongoing incompetence to stand trial. ( also, not sure I'm wording this properly).

Jmo!

To me it seemed a ploy to indefinitely postpone things, especially since she never even reached the indictment phase. She knew that it was wrong to murder Charles, that's why she apologized to the neighbors. She also lied about Tylee and JJ's whereabouts, so although she may well believe that she's a goddess and in zombies, I think that she's a malingerer. Also, she has the capability of refusing meds, so there's that too... I think that the state's strategy of keeping the trials together may succeed in restoring her competency quicker, along with forced medications.

 

[pizzaman12]

To me it seemed a ploy to indefinitely postpone things, especially since she never even reached the indictment phase. She knew that it was wrong to murder Charles, that's why she apologized to the neighbors. She also lied about Tylee and JJ's whereabouts, so although she may well believe that she's a goddess and in zombies, I think that she's a malingerer. Also, she has the capability of refusing meds, so there's that too... I think that the state's strategy of keeping the trials together may succeed in restoring her competency quicker, along with forced medications.

I'm more concerned as to why we're what...4 months in and the discussion of forced meds and accessing reports is just now being addressed?

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Local update: MM and JA were not at the women’s detention center today

 

[CSIDreamer]

How does a unit force meds? Injections? Say "let me see in your mouth"?

 

[MsJosie]

LinsaK and Pizzaman12 I think you are both correct. I also believe she was given a push, fuel, encouragement, what ever you want to call it by both CD and MM. the story got blown up. She plays the game like felons Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias. Now it’s up to the Judge to get this trail back on track. Don’t let LV run the show. MOO.

 

[dcfi224]

How does a unit force meds? Injections? Say "let me see in your mouth"?

Yep - a few of the antipsychotics come in injectable formulations. And if there is concern for “cheeking” medication (hiding the pill in their cheek and then spitting it out) that doesn’t come in an injectable formulation, then sometimes we’ll use Orally Disintegrating Tablets (ones that dissolve on the tongue) or liquid formulation, so that they have to swallow it.

 

[fred&edna]

The fact LVD could just remain incompetent for years and years is not a new concept discussed here on WS... but I found this Colorado case of Robert Lewis Dear Jr interesting. He has federal charges (yet not facing DP) but has remained incompetent to stand trial since May 2016 per the first link (2019).

Robert Lewis Dear Jr., the admitted gunman in the Nov. 27, 2015, attack, has been deemed incompetent to stand trial in the state case every 90 days since May 2016. The state case is being prosecuted in El Paso County. On Monday, federal prosecutors in Denver unveiled a 68-count indictment against Dear in the shooting that left three people dead — including a police officer — and nine others wounded.

New federal charges against Planned Parenthood gunman don’t necessarily equate to a faster outcome

and the updated (Sept 2021) "still incompetent" report:

Robert Dear, Planned Parenthood shooting suspect, ruled incompetent in federal case

ETA: From some of the court videos it doesn't appear Dear is getting his hair and nails done... I suppose that's a plus.

 

[fred&edna]

Yep - a few of the antipsychotics come in injectable formulations. And if there is concern for “cheeking” medication (hiding the pill in their cheek and then spitting it out) that doesn’t come in an injectable formulation, then sometimes we’ll use Orally Disintegrating Tablets (ones that dissolve on the tongue) or liquid formulation, so that they have to swallow it.

Do you think a blood test could be requested if a patient was suspected of avoiding ingestion of the meds?

 

[Kemug]

So to give an injection to an uncooperative patient, how does that happen exactly? Does it take several people to hold the patient down, a gag to stop them biting - just curious and trying to imagine how it happens.

 

[Niner]

Sorry - I missed the 9/22 motions hearing for Chad. Out of town...

Is the next hearing for Chad on 9/30 still? A pretrial hearing. And then I have 10/5 for a change of venue motion.

TIA!

and for Lori - last was 9/16 in "secret" - any future dates for her? TIA!