CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #5

[Lexiintoronto]

I think the other lightning proponent was @Blackkettle. Some pretty impressive weather sleuthing.

And also @RickshawFan regarding lightning theories. I was resistant but slowly understood the reasoning and proof. I have a new respect for lightning after everyone’s posts about it.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Some pretty funky bacteria could grow in one but it seems unlikely any of those would incapacitate a family together at the same time. More likely it would lead to GI issues.

That said, is it a possible homicide scenario where someone said, "Here, take my camelback with you on the hike tomorrow. I just filled it with fresh water", and gave them a water supply with an unknown toxin? Were they ever known to use a Camelback? I have wondered how exactly a Camelback could be used together with a backpack style baby carrier.

ita, it’s need to be some vile bacteria to kill all.
Hopefully we’ll know more in 2-3 weeks, moo.
I expect multiple CoD when things are all said and done.

 

[rahod1]

All signs are now pointing to........
IMO LE did the diplomatic thing and said everything the cause couldn't be rather than what no one else wants to say because it seems just too crazy, namely, the family went out hiking that trail, in that heat, for a good length of time. No one wants to believe they made that choice. But from the long list of non-causes, it would seem that's where we are.

BINGO

 

[Adrenaline]

Ive been curious about the lightning strikes from the beginning. Just supposing that there is volcanic activity deep there, and that that degree of heat expanded the rocks a lot. No shade any more, that’s different. And that a lightning strike triggered the opening of a fissure, either thru a mine or fault line. Releasing CO2 / H2S right at the time they were there.
Bit curious as to why that photo of the helicopter winching in their bodies seemed to show a blue haze over parts of the mountainous land, especially Devil gulch and the metallic rock nearby. Artefact or a remnant of something like CO2. Guess if it explodes as a huge volcano, then at least we’ll all know. And I’m ways away. Bye.

 

[RickshawFan]

Ive been curious about the lightning strikes from the beginning. Just supposing that there is volcanic activity deep there, and that that degree of heat expanded the rocks a lot. No shade any more, that’s different. And that a lightning strike triggered the opening of a fissure, either thru a mine or fault line. Releasing CO2 / H2S right at the time they were there.
Bit curious as to why that photo of the helicopter winching in their bodies seemed to show a blue haze over parts of the mountainous land, especially Devil gulch and the metallic rock nearby. Artefact or a remnant of something like CO2. Guess if it explodes as a huge volcano, then at least we’ll all know. And I’m ways away. Bye.

The thing is, there are a lot of metal seams in the ground just there, which might have made the ground extra conductive. How do we know there were a lot of seams? I forget how many (50+?) mining claims there are in the area. There was that large mine at Hites Cove, and the remnants of 2 others. So, yeah, the ground was particularly conductive.

 

[Pumphouse363]

I was on about the lightning (along with a few other posters, e.g. @Seni ) at the beginning of Thread #1. I've been in and out since, but I'm irritated to find out my ahead-of-its-time, cutting-edge, et al., BRILLIANT, astute, remarkable, idea has been nuked by LE. Sigh.
All signs are now pointing to........
IMO LE did the diplomatic thing and said everything the cause couldn't be rather than what no one else wants to say because it seems just too crazy, namely, the family went out hiking that trail, in that heat, for a good length of time. No one wants to believe they made that choice. But from the long list of non-causes, it would seem that's where we are.

I think the lightning explanation was a very plausible possibility too. I doubt that LE would spend so much time and effort because they were being ‘diplomatic’. I still do not accept that Jon and Ellen took Miju and Oski with the intention of hiking the HC trail or the SL trail. There has still been no mention of what was on the phone or laptop or other items passed to the FBI. Even if there was no signal around the course of the alleged ‘hike’, there should still be something on a phone app relating to their whereabouts at specific times. Also, sorry for my ignorance, but don’t phones use satellite technology to monitor hikes? I’ve been in quite a few places in the Greek islands where there’s been no phone signal, no road signs, rugged and mountainous landscapes and very little populace but my Satnav has worked perfectly.
I’ve been staggered by the effort that everyone on WS has put in to try and make sense of this tragedy and, I have really wanted it to be correct. I’m not sure I will ever believe they made mistakes and died from heat related problems. I feel I have contributed very little to this debate in terms of theories. That’s mainly because I still suspect foul play and that has been ruled out.

 

[ItalyReader]

Ive been curious about the lightning strikes from the beginning. Just supposing that there is volcanic activity deep there, and that that degree of heat expanded the rocks a lot. No shade any more, that’s different. And that a lightning strike triggered the opening of a fissure, either thru a mine or fault line. Releasing CO2 / H2S right at the time they were there.
Bit curious as to why that photo of the helicopter winching in their bodies seemed to show a blue haze over parts of the mountainous land, especially Devil gulch and the metallic rock nearby. Artefact or a remnant of something like CO2. Guess if it explodes as a huge volcano, then at least we’ll all know. And I’m ways away. Bye.

I believe carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide were ruled out yesterday by LE.
I can’t speak to other substances “like CO2” but other gases perhaps are possible in your theory? MOO

 

[swedeheart]

British Snapchat engineer, his wife, baby and dog were not killed by lightning | Daily Mail Online

• More than six weeks later, authorities still don't know what killed Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter Muji and their dog on hiking trail
• Sheriff's office has ruled out gun or any other type of weapon; lightning strike; carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide; cyanide; drugs/alcohol, and suicide
• Few 'key' toxicology results are still pending, but there is no timeline for them
• Family of three and pet were found dead in Sierra National Forest on August 17
• A 28-mile stretch of the River Merced in California was closed in early September after water samples revealed the presence of toxic algae

 

[Adrenaline]

Thanks. I could understand how they’ve eliminated CO but not CO2 or H2S. It’s just that I get a feeling of the tremendous heat emanating from reflected sun from that hillside. Too much. And I’ve never been able to make sense of advice the authorities give to avoid being struck by lightning. One must not be on a ridge line, a creek, out in the open or near a tree? So when you’re hiking, where’s that exactly? Down a rabbit hole?

Listened to Jon’s lecture. Sensible guy (not that I could understand it). He would have been well aware of turning around. He really loved that little girl. That picture of her asleep on his chest, in total trust, is heartbreaking.

 

[RickshawFan]

I think the lightning explanation was a very plausible possibility too. I doubt that LE would spend so much time and effort because they were being ‘diplomatic’. I still do not accept that Jon and Ellen took Miju and Oski with the intention of hiking the HC trail or the SL trail. There has still been no mention of what was on the phone or laptop or other items passed to the FBI. Even if there was no signal around the course of the alleged ‘hike’, there should still be something on a phone app relating to their whereabouts at specific times. Also, sorry for my ignorance, but don’t phones use satellite technology to monitor hikes? I’ve been in quite a few places in the Greek islands where there’s been no phone signal, no road signs, rugged and mountainous landscapes and very little populace but my Satnav has worked perfectly.
I’ve been staggered by the effort that everyone on WS has put in to try and make sense of this tragedy and, I have really wanted it to be correct. I’m not sure I will ever believe they made mistakes and died from heat related problems. I feel I have contributed very little to this debate in terms of theories. That’s mainly because I still suspect foul play and that has been ruled out.

For places that have no cell signal, hikers use PLBs (term used loosely here for backcountry communication devices) that send over satellite or something else equally evanescent to my mind. For a model to do what you’re describing, you’d have to buy into an annual service that does this. Our cell phones don’t have a satellite service, though I suppose the cell companies might use satellites somewhere on the route for e.g. international calls.
There are 2 problems here:
1. IIRC LE said early on even their satellite communicators won’t work in that canyon. It’s presumably so deep, they couldn’t lock onto a satellite: the satellites would be obscured by the walls of the canyon.
2. PLB units are expensive, and some require an annual subscription. Price wouldn’t have been an issue for the Gerrish-Chungs. I suppose they just didn’t know to get one.

There are different types of PLBs. Some have texting abilities, and some just have an SOS signal. The latter might actually have worked in that canyon, but I’m no expert in this technology since I don’t own one.
Understandable description of different types: How to Choose PLBs and Satellite Messengers

 

[realanastasia]

I still do not accept that Jon and Ellen took Miju and Oski with the intention of hiking the HC trail or the SL trail. There has still been no mention of what was on the phone or laptop or other items passed to the FBI…I’m not sure I will ever believe they made mistakes and died from heat related problems.

Respectfully, @Pumphouse363, I’m curious about whether there is ANY type of evidence (phone, computer, GPS, etc.) that would be sufficient to convince you that the family’s death resulted from the choices made by JG/EC? For example, one hypothetical example might be an email or text sent by EC/JG describing plans to hike in the same area where the family was eventually found—would that convince you?

 

[RickshawFan]

To continue on from my PLB comment. …
Before you even get to a purchase of a PLB, this is a cardinal rule..
Pro tip: do not step onto a trail without your own pack, your own water (oversupply this), and your 10 essentials. Include dog essentials if you take a dog: water, bowl, food, first aid, jacket (cooling vest or warm). You could have a disabling accident or get lost within a mile from the trailhead. It’s not rare for SAR to rescue folks who are in this situation. Sometimes they’re wearing jeans (a death trap), sometimes it got dark before they could get back to their cars (and they aren’t carrying a headlamp), sometimes they sprain an ankle.
Even a child should have a mini pack with water and basics, identifying info, etc.

As far as I know, the Gerrish-Chungs didn’t both carry packs? This might be helpfully telling.

*****
There are 2 other key pieces of info I’d want to know about the Gerrish-Chungs situation because they may have bearing on their decision-making process.

1. Were they wearing hats?
2. How many dirty diapers were they carrying?Presumably, they’d be observing “leave no trace” tenets and would be carrying out whatever dirty diapers baby produced. The dirty diapers should give some indication how long they were on the trail. The total number of diapers (clean and dirty) may give a clue how long they’d intended to be out. Unless, of course, they had no experience with baby on the trail, and didn’t anticipate this at all.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

“We haven’t ruled out much, other than what we’ve listed,” Mitchell said. “Everything else is still out there as an option.”
Cause of deaths of California family on hike remains mystery

 

[Pumphouse363]

For places that have no cell signal, hikers use PLBs (term used loosely here for backcountry communication devices) that send over satellite or something else equally evanescent to my mind. For a model to do what you’re describing, you’d have to buy into an annual service that does this. Our cell phones don’t have a satellite service, though I suppose the cell companies might use satellites somewhere on the route for e.g. international calls.
There are 2 problems here:
1. IIRC LE said early on even their satellite communicators won’t work in that canyon. It’s presumably so deep, they couldn’t lock onto a satellite: the satellites would be obscured by the walls of the canyon.
2. PLB units are expensive, and some require an annual subscription. Price wouldn’t have been an issue for the Gerrish-Chungs. I suppose they just didn’t know to get one.

There are different types of PLBs. Some have texting abilities, and some just have an SOS signal. The latter might actually have worked in that canyon, but I’m no expert in this technology since I don’t own one.
Understandable description of different types: How to Choose PLBs and Satellite Messengers

Thank you for your explanation. I think I understand what you mean regarding satellite communications being difficult in some areas. However I was thinking more in terms of, for example, where they were at 7.45 when the vehicle was seen or where they were when they lost signal. My phone tracks me when I go on walks. I know it’s not the same terrain but it would still record my journey up to the point where I lost the signal. Also Jon worked for Google over ten years. He would have had the latest tech available - and probably some we’ve never even heard of yet.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

For places that have no cell signal, hikers use PLBs (term used loosely here for backcountry communication devices) that send over satellite or something else equally evanescent to my mind. For a model to do what you’re describing, you’d have to buy into an annual service that does this. Our cell phones don’t have a satellite service, though I suppose the cell companies might use satellites somewhere on the route for e.g. international calls.
There are 2 problems here:
1. IIRC LE said early on even their satellite communicators won’t work in that canyon. It’s presumably so deep, they couldn’t lock onto a satellite: the satellites would be obscured by the walls of the canyon.
2. PLB units are expensive, and some require an annual subscription. Price wouldn’t have been an issue for the Gerrish-Chungs. I suppose they just didn’t know to get one.

There are different types of PLBs. Some have texting abilities, and some just have an SOS signal. The latter might actually have worked in that canyon, but I’m no expert in this technology since I don’t own one.
Understandable description of different types: How to Choose PLBs and Satellite Messengers

I agree, a PLB would be valuable for anyone hiking in the back country. But I think the original post by @Pumphouse363 may have been suggesting that Jon was recording the hike with the phone's GPS tracking. It wouldn't need cell service. He appeared to have done that for many hikes before with either his phone or a smartwatch in areas near there according to AllTrails. Even if he wasn't recording the hike, there could possibly be pictures taken during the hike on the phone that would document their route.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Respectfully, @Pumphouse363, I’m curious about whether there is ANY type of evidence (phone, computer, GPS, etc.) that would be sufficient to convince you that the family’s death resulted from the choices made by JG/EC? For example, one hypothetical example might be an email or text sent by EC/JG describing plans to hike in the same area where the family was eventually found—would that convince you?

Hi there. I understand why you ask me those questions. I’ve asked them of myself a thousand times. Yes, I think if there was an email or text to someone I knew they trusted then I would have to believe they did it. I just haven’t heard anything that would convince me they got up on Sunday morning intending to do that arduous hike - and I can’t say why because I’m not a verified contributor.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Hi there. I understand why you ask me those questions. I’ve asked them of myself a thousand times. Yes, I think if there was an email or text to someone I knew they trusted then I would have to believe they did it. I just haven’t heard anything that would convince me they got up on Sunday morning intending to do that arduous hike - and I can’t say why because I’m not a verified contributor.

It seems to me at appx 6:45 a.m. they planned to hike, idk why Ellen would have sent a photo of the baby carrier if it had no relevancy. Evidently the family got up early and set off, by all accounts from Sheriff B they prepared well. all moo

 

[Pumphouse363]

To continue on from my PLB comment. …
Before you even get to a purchase of a PLB, this is a cardinal rule..
Pro tip: do not step onto a trail without your own pack, your own water (oversupply this), and your 10 essentials. Include dog essentials if you take a dog: water, bowl, food, first aid, jacket (cooling vest or warm). You could have a disabling accident or get lost within a mile from the trailhead. It’s not rare for SAR to rescue folks who are in this situation. Sometimes they’re wearing jeans (a death trap), sometimes it got dark before they could get back to their cars (and they aren’t carrying a headlamp), sometimes they sprain an ankle.
Even a child should have a mini pack with water and basics, identifying info, etc.

As far as I know, the Gerrish-Chungs didn’t both carry packs? This might be helpfully telling.

*****
There are 2 other key pieces of info I’d want to know about the Gerrish-Chungs situation because they may have bearing on their decision-making process.

1. Were they wearing hats?
2. How many dirty diapers were they carrying?Presumably, they’d be observing “leave no trace” tenets and would be carrying out whatever dirty diapers baby produced. The dirty diapers should give some indication how long they were on the trail. The total number of diapers (clean and dirty) may give a clue how long they’d intended to be out. Unless, of course, they had no experience with baby on the trail, and didn’t anticipate this at all.

Thank you! You’re absolutely right and that’s one of the main reasons I don’t believe they did that trail. They would have taken all those precautions. There has been no updates in the media on how well-prepared they were other than right at the start of the investigation. MOO

 

[Pumphouse363]

It seems to me at appx 6:45 a.m. they planned to hike, idk why Ellen would have sent a photo of the baby carrier if it had no relevancy. Evidently the family got up early and set off, by all account from Sheriff B they prepared well. all moo

Yes so it would seem.

 

[Pumphouse363]

I agree, a PLB would be valuable for anyone hiking in the back country. But I think the original post by @Pumphouse363 may have been suggesting that Jon was recording the hike with the phone's GPS tracking. It wouldn't need cell service. He appeared to have done that for many hikes before with either his phone or a smartwatch in areas near there according to AllTrails. Even if he wasn't recording the hike, there could possibly be pictures taken during the hike on the phone that would document their route.

Thank you - yes that’s what I was wondering.