GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66

[Johnny B Bad]

So is GW4 saying now that Billy killed the other 3 Victims?
Wonder when Billy is going to realize that he is on a sinking ship????
JMO I bet Billy will throw a monkey wrench into GW4s defense before the first of the year, he will say it was GW4 that did the killing, JMO

 

[Dudly]

So is GW4 saying now that Billy killed the other 3 Victims?
Wonder when Billy is going to realize that he is on a sinking ship????
JMO I bet Billy will throw a monkey wrench into GW4s defense before the first of the year, he will say it was GW4 that did the killing, JMO

Unless AW and JW lied in their proffers, the Prosecution knows who shot whom and who killed whom...

 

[altojack]

I may have missed something, so, what do we know about the knife? Have we heard any hints on who used the knife? Was anyone killed with the knife?

Any thoughts please, and thank you.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I may have missed something, so, what do we know about the knife? Have we heard any hints on who used the knife? Was anyone killed with the knife?

Any thoughts please, and thank you.

There was a lot of blood at Big Chris house and it was talked about from BJM

 

[altojack]

There was a lot of blood at Big Chris house and it was talked about from BJM

So it could be possible that GW4 used that very knife on Gary, maybe not enough to kill but sufficient to imobolise him ready for Billy to take him out with a gun.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

So it could be possible that GW4 used that very knife on Gary, maybe not enough to kill but sufficient to imobolise him ready for Billy to take him out with a gun.

George Wagner iv was at the Rhodens family homes during the murders, he helped Jake and Angela with the planning of the murders, he is no innocent baby, he was in on the surveillance of the victims, taking Angela to buy the shoes and gather the Rhodens surveillance cameras that night, building the suppresser and brass catchers for the guns, fleeing Ohio to go to Alaska with the rest of the murders family, also the BCI caught him talking about counter surveillance on tape, like CC texted said, George Wagner iv may have not killed anyone with a gun the night 8 people was killed but he did help murder all 8 victims that night AND for all the insane crap GW4 did, he should get the death penalty with all the other 3,, the Wagners deserves to die the same way they killed the victims, JMO

SLEUTHER’S THERE IS NOT A JURY THAT MR NASH AND THE OTHER DEFENSE ATTORNEYS COULD FIND IN OHIO THAT WOULD GIVE GEORGE WAGNER IV NOTHING LESS THAN LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE, JMO

 

[Betty P]

So it could be possible that GW4 used that very knife on Gary, maybe not enough to kill but sufficient to imobolise him ready for Billy to take him out with a gun.

Gary's preliminary AR didn't mention stab wounds, according to the news reporters who were allowed to view them.

Rhoden family massacre: Preliminary autopsy reports reviewed

 

[Cool Cats]

I may have missed something, so, what do we know about the knife? Have we heard any hints on who used the knife? Was anyone killed with the knife?

Any thoughts please, and thank you.

State's Supplemental Discovery, Filed Jun 21, 2021

Under DNA: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21

Under Latent Prints: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21

Under FWF: ATF Etrace 1911, Glock, SKS

Ford-F 150
(67 images)

GMC Sierra

GMC Sierra Photos - Athens County (65 images)

GMC Sierra Photos - PCSO Impound (50 images)

Photos 4-21-21 (10 images)

I do not believe the knife was used on any victim. I think the knife was a tool they took along like Billy carrying the Leatherman's Tool.

These cowardly Wagners were too afraid to use a knife on the victims because you have to get up close and personal to use one.

I believe the Wagners' plan was to use guns that night to subdue everyone and when Gary surprised them they used a gun with larger caliber bullets to subdue him, not a knife. They quickly pulled the gun.

I always thought knives would be handy for cutting down all those security cameras including the many trail cameras Kenneth had.

I definitely think the knife was on hand to use as a tool if necessary such as in breaking and entering, burglarizing, tampering with crime scenes, opening up cement buckets, cutting rope, etc...

 

[Ann99]

George Wagner iv was at the Rhodens family homes during the murders, he helped Jake and Angela with the planning of the murders, he is no innocent baby, he was in on the surveillance of the victims, taking Angela to buy the shoes and gather the Rhodens surveillance cameras that night, building the suppresser and brass catchers for the guns, fleeing Ohio to go to Alaska with the rest of the murders family, also the BCI caught him talking about counter surveillance on tape, like CC texted said, George Wagner iv may have not killed anyone with a gun the night 8 people was killed but he did help murder all 8 victims that night AND for all the insane crap GW4 did, he should get the death penalty with all the other 3,, the Wagners deserves to die the same way they killed the victims, JMO

SLEUTHER’S THERE IS NOT A JURY THAT MR NASH AND THE OTHER DEFENSE ATTORNEYS COULD FIND IN OHIO THAT WOULD GIVE GEORGE WAGNER IV NOTHING LESS THAN LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE, JMO

JBB
I agree with all you say.
But I think about a Pike County jury.
I would be very concerned to have to seat a Pike County ( and surrounding counties ) jury.
Too much fear in honest people.
Too much good old boy networking, very strong possibility of tampering.
I don't believe these are political
statements, it's just the way it is.

 

[Ann99]

All respect for your thoughts, but I do think the knife was used as a weapon or for some other way on the victims.
Why put it in the hidden bucket (weapons buckets) if not a traceable item due to the edge or other manner that a knife wound can be identified as belonging to a certain type knife.
A basic tool knife has no need to be hidden.
It probably had blood all over it.
In crevices, unable to be sure that it has been totally cleaned.

 

[altojack]

State's Supplemental Discovery, Filed Jun 21, 2021

Under DNA: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21

Under Latent Prints: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21

Under FWF: ATF Etrace 1911, Glock, SKS

Ford-F 150
(67 images)

GMC Sierra

GMC Sierra Photos - Athens County (65 images)

GMC Sierra Photos - PCSO Impound (50 images)

Photos 4-21-21 (10 images)

I do not believe the knife was used on any victim. I think the knife was a tool they took along like Billy carrying the Leatherman's Tool.

These cowardly Wagners were too afraid to use a knife on the victims because you have to get up close and personal to use one.

I believe the Wagners' plan was to use guns that night to subdue everyone and when Gary surprised them they used a gun with larger caliber bullets to subdue him, not a knife. They quickly pulled the gun.

I always thought knives would be handy for cutting down all those security cameras including the many trail cameras Kenneth had.

I definitely think the knife was on hand to use as a tool if necessary such as in breaking and entering, burglarizing, tampering with crime scenes, opening up cement buckets, cutting rope, etc...

I agree. Just me looking for other avenues and arriving at a brick wall, ouch.

Oh yes, the cameras etc had to be removed, the knife was used as a tool. I see that very clearly now.

 

[IType]

State's Supplemental Discovery, Filed Jun 21, 2021

Under DNA: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21

Under Latent Prints: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21

Under FWF: ATF Etrace 1911, Glock, SKS

Ford-F 150
(67 images)

GMC Sierra

GMC Sierra Photos - Athens County (65 images)

GMC Sierra Photos - PCSO Impound (50 images)

Photos 4-21-21 (10 images)

I do not believe the knife was used on any victim. I think the knife was a tool they took along like Billy carrying the Leatherman's Tool.

These cowardly Wagners were too afraid to use a knife on the victims because you have to get up close and personal to use one.

I believe the Wagners' plan was to use guns that night to subdue everyone and when Gary surprised them they used a gun with larger caliber bullets to subdue him, not a knife. They quickly pulled the gun.

I always thought knives would be handy for cutting down all those security cameras including the many trail cameras Kenneth had.

I definitely think the knife was on hand to use as a tool if necessary such as in breaking and entering, burglarizing, tampering with crime scenes, opening up cement buckets, cutting rope, etc...

From your post: Under DNA: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21; I do not believe the knife was used on any victim.

I'm sitting on the fence with this. If the knife is listed under DNA, then IMO that means someone's DNA is on it. But...whose DNA?

My first instinct is it is blood from a victim. But, there is also the possibility it is DNA from JW or BW, if they cut themselves accidentally somehow. We know it isn't GW4's because AC stated in one of the early hearings (possibly GW4's arraignment?) that the prosecution does not have any DNA from GW4.

As for it being JW or BW's DNA, why would they need to bury the knife with the other evidence if it is their own DNA? My instinct then directs me back to thinking it is DNA from at least one of the victims, probably CRSR or GR because of BJM saying there was blood all over the place. Back to sitting on that fence again...

So many questions, so little time....JMO

 

[altojack]

JBB
I agree with all you say.
But I think about a Pike County jury.
I would be very concerned to have to seat a Pike County ( and surrounding counties ) jury.
Too much fear in honest people.
Too much good old boy networking, very strong possibility of tampering.
I don't believe these are political
statements, it's just the way it is.

I've read much about the good old boy newt working and tampering in the past. It surely doesn't still go on these days in this area though, or does it? I'm not stating this in a political way either, just asking.

 

[altojack]

From your post: Under DNA: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21; I do not believe the knife was used on any victim.

I'm sitting on the fence with this. If the knife is listed under DNA, then IMO that means someone's DNA is on it. But...whose DNA?

My first instinct is it is blood from a victim. But, there is also the possibility it is DNA from JW or BW, if they cut themselves accidentally somehow. We know it isn't GW4's because AC stated in one of the early hearings (possibly GW4's arraignment?) that the prosecution does not have any DNA from GW4.

As for it being JW or BW's DNA, why would they need to bury the knife with the other evidence if it is their own DNA? My instinct then directs me back to thinking it is DNA from at least one of the victims, probably CRSR or GR because of BJM saying there was blood all over the place. Back to sitting on that fence again...

So many questions, so little time....JMO

Shift along that fence please, and kindly give me a hand up, I'm not as nifty as I used to be

 

[Covert Operative]

All respect for your thoughts, but I do think the knife was used as a weapon or for some other way on the victims.
Why put it in the hidden bucket (weapons buckets) if not a traceable item due to the edge or other manner that a knife wound can be identified as belonging to a certain type knife.
A basic tool knife has no need to be hidden.
It probably had blood all over it.
In crevices, unable to be sure that it has been totally cleaned.

They kept the two hand guns and at least part of the SKS and the knife. There would be no need to keep those guns or the knife. Since they kept the knife they certainly must have been as fond of it as they were the guns or it was a weapon of some kind possibly. Not sure if they kept their weapons as momentos or why exactly one would do that.
There was a rather large knife in the movie Boondock saints but not used on a person in there. It happened to be something they had brought that turned out to help them. Right now it does not seem as though the W's used a knife on the victims in some way but not sure we can rule it out either. Since they kept their weapons it makes it seem like it also could be a weapon.

 

[Covert Operative]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

George Wagner iv was at the Rhodens family homes during the murders, he helped Jake and Angela with the planning of the murders, he is no innocent baby, he was in on the surveillance of the victims, taking Angela to buy the shoes and gather the Rhodens surveillance cameras that night, building the suppresser and brass catchers for the guns, fleeing Ohio to go to Alaska with the rest of the murders family, also the BCI caught him talking about counter surveillance on tape, like CC texted said, George Wagner iv may have not killed anyone with a gun the night 8 people was killed but he did help murder all 8 victims that night AND for all the insane crap GW4 did, he should get the death penalty with all the other 3,, the Wagners deserves to die the same way they killed the victims, JMO

SLEUTHER’S THERE IS NOT A JURY THAT MR NASH AND THE OTHER DEFENSE ATTORNEYS COULD FIND IN OHIO THAT WOULD GIVE GEORGE WAGNER IV NOTHING LESS THAN LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE, JMO

You never know with a jury. There may be a juror not willing to find him guilty of the 8 counts of murder if he did not actually kill anyone but willing to find him guilty of the other counts or it may create a hung jury. If he gets a good plea offer he better consider it because he never knows. The state also has to consider if they go into the trial asking for DP then it may make difference as to how a jury decides the actual murder charges.

Not sure at what point they are told this is no longer a DP case if JW testifies truthfully. I think knowing it is or is not a DP case could affect their decision. The state needs to just take it to trial and let the jury and judge decide. They may want to save money and reach a deal though.

 

[Ann99]

A little more regarding the knife.
MO
It could have been used as a method to extract information from CRsr. Not to kill, but as in holding a knife to ones throat.
Why ? I still believe W’s had a secondary goal that night. Something in CRsr safe.
They wanted to get into that safe and only CRsr could do it. MO

 

[Piffcat]

Imo that knife was used in heinous ways. You have to try and put yourself in the thought process of tge murderers and use all available info to draw a conclusion based in reality, not wishful thinking in rose colored glasses. I certainly wish it wasn't used to torture crsr but it's very unlikely.
1. The knife used at tge scene had dna on it
2. It was hidden with the murder weapons
3 manner of hiding was well thought out and effective. Despite numerous searches and tips looking on fwf ponds was never recovered
4. Crsr autopsy was sig,ificantly longer more detailed and highly redacted
5. Crsr was the object of bw3 intense rage. Bw3 is sadistic and proud of it ie scorpion tattoo.
6. In rural areas a knife is not a surprising or incriminating object there are many rational explanations, unless it's covered in blood
7 knife is highlighted in case files discovery it is important to prosecutors case

 

[Covert Operative]

A little more regarding the knife.
MO
It could have been used as a method to extract information from CRsr. Not to kill, but as in holding a knife to ones throat.
Why ? I still believe W’s had a secondary goal that night. Something in CRsr safe.
They wanted to get into that safe and only CRsr could do it. MO

They may have got into that safe, we really do not know. Just because it may have been closed does not mean they didn't.

 

[Betty P]

From your post: Under DNA: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21; I do not believe the knife was used on any victim.

I'm sitting on the fence with this. If the knife is listed under DNA, then IMO that means someone's DNA is on it. But...whose DNA?

My first instinct is it is blood from a victim. But, there is also the possibility it is DNA from JW or BW, if they cut themselves accidentally somehow. We know it isn't GW4's because AC stated in one of the early hearings (possibly GW4's arraignment?) that the prosecution does not have any DNA from GW4.

As for it being JW or BW's DNA, why would they need to bury the knife with the other evidence if it is their own DNA? My instinct then directs me back to thinking it is DNA from at least one of the victims, probably CRSR or GR because of BJM saying there was blood all over the place. Back to sitting on that fence again...

So many questions, so little time....JMO

Joining you on the fence.

There's a reason why the state considers this evidence important, but they're not going to tell us unless there's a trial or some other reason they need to reveal it in the pre-trial stage.

ETA: On the topic of the safe, has anything at all related to a safe appeared in discovery or any other part of the pre-trial process? JMO, it's rumor started by someone who was weaving the false narrative that CR1 was killed by "the cartel" because he was a big time drug dealer (he wasn't).