CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

[Lex Parsimoniae]

In terms of “lessons learned” and anything positive that can come from this tragedy, please don’t take dogs out in heat over 90 degrees. I’m linking to a chart showing various temps and the degree of danger to dogs (prolonged exposure over 90 degrees is life threatening). What Temperature Is Too Hot For My Dog?

“In general, there is no risk at 60 degrees Fahrenheit for dogs of all sizes, while 85 to 90 degrees Fahrenheit is potentially life threatening. For medium and small breeds, there is no risk up to 65 degrees and unlikely risk at 70 degrees. But 75 to 80 degrees can be unsafe, 85 begins to be dangerous and beyond 90 is potentially life threatening.”

I would add, it's easy to keep your dog comfortable in 90F temps, just keep your dog wet. That's what we do, either by letting her swim periodically, or using water to wet her down. We keep 2 liter bottles of water in the car just to pour on her and rub in before a walk. We put more on during the walk as needed. We do choose walks with lakes, ponds, creeks, rivers, and shade when it's hot, and usually in the 1 hour range. Bella cooling off:

 

[Lucy Locket]

I wonder how much over-activity and busyness affected the GCs choices that day. Life is overwhelmingly complicated for young couples today, with social media, multi-tasking, the need to do everything "right," jobs, hobbies, activities, rental properties, employees, nanny, dog. I see this in my 40 year old daughter. Her life is far, far more complicated than mine was at her age. She doesn't just live, she lives and works at hyper-speed, even on vacation. Very stressful.

On top of this, there is the natural adjustment and confusion when a baby enters the lives of two active adults who had been used to dramatic and self-centered lives. Add a third being to that mix. When I took my daughter at age 8 to the Pacific Coast of Guatemala where she almost drowned by a rogue wave, it was because I wanted to go there. She was just a passenger in my desires.

With all this activity and readjustment, the result is less brain room for rational, calm decisions and planning.

We'll never know why they made these choices. My opinions are from my own experience.

I agree with you totally @MrsEmmaPeel
I am a bit older than JG but I burnt out around his age...I was trying to manage multiple businesses, properties, parents, grandparents, extremely unhelpful banks, children, husband, dog, clients, non-stop social media interaction, health problems plus many more different projects simultaneously over many years. The 24/7 stress was enormous.

Indeed Life can be far more complicated these days if we allow it to be. Much more is expected of us. A lot comes down to knowing yourself 100% and applying 'boundaries'.

I'm convinced that perfectionists (knowing that I am a recovering one myself) have a huge time not giving in. It seems like an admission of defeat. It's really hard to turn around and retrace your steps especially if something is not working.

In the end my stressful life blew up. I was juggling too many balls. Luckily there were no casualties involved, thank goodness. I have learned a lot of lessons the hard way. I try to be much more relaxed as a consequence. Giving myself time and pausing to reflect on decisions helps massively.

This case has really intrigued me. It contains many elements afflicting all of our lives. Not least that of climate change.

I was also intrigued by what @ItalyReader was saying about their SF lifestyle. I too moved away deliberately from a City of London lifestyle a long time ago but I did not manage to shake the perfectionist tendencies until I was absolutely forced to. Hey ho.

My take on this:
1. They had moved to the area to live a particular lifestyle and they had to evidence that they were doing this to prove that it was working.
2. The loop was researched so it had to be done come what may.
3. It could be that they were trying to gain elevation to get a phone signal to get help combinec with getting back to the car. Staying down at the river seems/seemed counter intuitive (to them) - this reminds me a little bit of the Geraldine Largay case.
4. I cannot fathom bringing the baby and dog (those absolute darlings) but I believe that they were a big part of their new lifestyle. In fairness, that fateful day was a family outing to spend quality time together...
5. I agree again with @MrsEmmaPeel that involving a baby in your life is a huge, huge adjustment.

I sympathise and empathise with their families and friends enormously. I am sure that the family are hugely missed. May they rest in eternal peace.

Thank you to @Pumphouse363 who has been able to provide us with further information where info has been pretty scarce.

I have also read everyone's comments on these threads and learned a heck of a lot in the process. I'm still a Newbie here and am amazed at how much expertise and knowledge everyone has! I'm aiming to put a lot of this new-found valuable information into practice as soon as I can.

Really impressed with how your LE has handled the case too...really sensitively. It's nice to know that that can still happen in these weird times.

All of this JMO.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

DBM

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

BBM
What you stated (in bold) here is the REAL WHY for me. They took the hike in the first place believing it would be interesting and *exhilarating* (an adventure). So the real question for me is WHY didn't they abort the hike and turn around when things got *uncomfortable*. To me that should have taken place at Marble point before the leg down to the river. MOO

Yes, it's like the old joke: A man jumped from the 10th story and is falling to the ground. A woman at the 4th floor sees him from her window and asks, "Hey, how's it going?". The man replies "So far, so good." They got to Marble Point and thought, "so far, so good."

 

[Yvettea]

Interesting choice of apps to locate a hike, a hunting app. @Pumphouse363

 

[sfinkz]

Very good, nice work putting that together. One of the problems that is difficult to surmount is the perception of relative risk. I wouldn't think twice about using the river water for cooling, or even drinking in an emergency like this. (I ran out of water and drank creek water once in desperation, before a hot, steep climb to my car. A "lite" version of this incident.) But if you read the signs about toxic algae you could think it would be a death sentence. However, as the sheriff said, no human has died (or so few it's uncertain) in the USA from toxic algae. People were swimming (dare I say frolicking?) in the river along Hwy 140 that day. We can't know why, but they didn't use the river water, which would have saved their lives. You have to rationally assess relative risk. Easier said than done.

The missing piece from our theory, however, is what prior knowledge the family had of algal blooms. I know the cautionary sign was posted at the 140TH. Going in the backdoor, was it not posted at the Jdale TH, did they first encounter it at the junction of the South Fork trail and panic, after arriving at their destination for an intended all-day Sunday walk and picnic and frolic on a hot day?

IMO, a variant of our theory, is that the plan was to not interact with the river at all. Again, lack of filtration is key.
The plan was to go hard and fast and be back to the tree-shaded, air-conditioned
home all the lazy afternoon.

As they began to struggle, certainly a notion of the river in view down below as poisoned water could have tipped the complicated reasoning of inner debate to pushing ever upward, towards the mirage.

 

[rahod1]

I really care not much how long or how close they worked on it extensively if there's no concrete solid proof about their hiking route activity.

I've been saying it all along about half a dozen times here that there's no hiking trail app that even covers HCT to SLT in one loop because none of the apps even covers or lists SLT at all.

How could JG have mapped the loop route ending at SLT if it's not even listed anywhere on most popular and not so popular apps?

What other more solid proof is out there to conclude that they hiked good 3~4 hours in a scorching heat with baby and dog?

I think there's got to be something more than a guy just searching and mapping a trail.

BBM
Foot prints compatible with family and dog aside, there are only TWO possibilities GIVEN THEY WERE FOUND ON SL facing UP hill. 1) They attempted to hike down SL to river and collapsed on the return back up. That would be 4.5 miles total to the point they were found...close to 2 1/2-3 hrs 2) They took the loop and collapsed after about 5.5 miles or about 3 hrs to where they were found. Times are obviously rough estimates, but EITHER scenario in the heat would have the same results. MOO.

 

[drama_farmer]

Your suggestions about the possibility she may have been a Practitioner of "hot yoga" and therefore felt acclimated to extreme heat is a good thought, but makes me wonder if there is such a thing as "baby hot yoga."

I'm guessing the answer is "no" to that.

Like many others on this thread, all of my "Why???" questions involve the two dependants that were on the hike.

Imo

Interesting, thanks!
In any case, she had to know about it because it was well known in San Francisco. I knew about it and I was not a teacher, just a class attendee in various yoga classes around town.
Bikram people were kind of the yoga equivalent of Soulcycle people - anyway, it was a thing and I’m sure she knew about it even if she hadn’t tried it.
But what if she had?
MOO

 

[jonjon747]

Why would the family continue going deeper into the valley when not even a single hiker is spotted there?
There is still no witness from anywhere near the mercer river or the valley.
Just imagining and believing that the family continued heading east toward the SLT is just absurd and ludicrous.
For anyone who thinks the couple pushed themselves harder to reach the highly danger zone area with baby and dog altogether, should maybe take a little break and think it over.
What were they trying to achieve or accomplish by ending up in a high risk area, that they were never familiar to begin with?
It's not even a desirable place for a family picnic out.
They had to just move along as if they had no choice, or possibly got spooked, fearful of something, unable to reverse course.

 

[wary]

Why would the family continue going deeper into the valley when not even a single hiker is spotted there?
There is still no witness from anywhere near the mercer river or the valley.
Just imagining and believing that the family continued heading east toward the SLT is just absurd and ludicrous.
For anyone who thinks the couple pushed themselves harder to reach the highly danger zone area with baby and dog altogether, should maybe take a little break and think it over.
What were they trying to achieve or accomplish by ending up in a high risk area, that they were never familiar to begin with?
It's not even a desirable place for a family picnic out.
They had to just move along as if they had no choice, or possibly got spooked, fearful of something, unable to reverse course.

MOO

Regarding your first question, my best guess is that if they thought about it at all, they felt pleased that they had the hike all to themselves.

As for it being a high risk area, again my guess is that they felt that it was adventure, rather than risk.

I think that there’s a possibility that, after a year of being confined for fear of Covid, of being restricted by the needs of a new baby, they may have decided that they were going to plan adventures and DO them, no matter what.

I’ve said before that there may have been a trace of the subconscious idea that a place so close to where they lived couldn’t possibly be dangerous. (If that idea had been spelled out to them, I’m sure they’d have realized the fallacy, but I said ‘subconscious.’

MOO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

What really amazes me is that, here on this WS discussion thread, it took all of us over a month (I think) before anyone came up with the one (IMO) action that might have been survivable if the family had done it after finding themselves in trouble -- and that would have been to follow the river (submersing and even drinking from it as needed to stay cool) downstream to the highway and then get help from there.

I think it was @Pumphouse363 who thought of it but I'm not positive. But the idea that for over a month dozens of us who have taken an interest in the case struggled to make sense of the scenario never thought of that (or at least didn't post about it) shows how hard it is for us to think outside the box. Really had an impact on me to realize how limited my own thinking was.

 

[Marysmith]

What really amazes me is that, here on this WS discussion thread, it took all of us over a month (I think) before anyone came up with the one (IMO) action that might have been survivable if the family had done it after finding themselves in trouble -- and that would have been to follow the river (submersing and even drinking from it as needed to stay cool) downstream to the highway and then get help from there.

I think it was @Pumphouse363 who thought of it but I'm not positive. But the idea that for over a month dozens of us who have taken an interest in the case struggled to make sense of the scenario never thought of that (or at least didn't post about it) shows how hard it is for us to think outside the box. Really had an impact on me to realize how limited my own thinking was.

Good point.
Honestly their cognition must have been affected as well long before they collapsed. I hope they didn’t suffer…

 

[NSamuelle]

I would add, it's easy to keep your dog comfortable in 90F temps, just keep your dog wet. That's what we do, either by letting her swim periodically, or using water to wet her down. We keep 2 liter bottles of water in the car just to pour on her and rub in before a walk. We put more on during the walk as needed. We do choose walks with lakes, ponds, creeks, rivers, and shade when it's hot, and usually in the 1 hour range. Bella cooling off:

I love the pic of your dog and agree; we do take him out in the heat of summer (90+) but only with sufficient water (he tried salt water a few times with “regrets” so we had to force fresh water).

 

[Lilibet]

Why would the family continue going deeper into the valley when not even a single hiker is spotted there?
There is still no witness from anywhere near the mercer river or the valley.
Just imagining and believing that the family continued heading east toward the SLT is just absurd and ludicrous.
For anyone who thinks the couple pushed themselves harder to reach the highly danger zone area with baby and dog altogether, should maybe take a little break and think it over.
What were they trying to achieve or accomplish by ending up in a high risk area, that they were never familiar to begin with?
It's not even a desirable place for a family picnic out.
They had to just move along as if they had no choice, or possibly got spooked, fearful of something, unable to reverse course.

It sounds like you still think it’s some kind of “death by unknown supernatural force” as y0u posted earlier? I’m sincerely curious what scenario seems more possible to you than heat stroke caused by a number of decisions that created a point of no return? Are all of the agencies that were involved in the investigation coming up with an “absurd and ludicrous” scenario after more than two months? People often do push beyond their limits before they realize they’ve done so. I can tell we all are wondering “what we’re they thinking?” but we will never know, unfortunately. So all we have to work with are the facts we’ve been given after an exhaustive investigation. Their thoughts as they set out that day will remain a mystery, even to investigators. JMO

CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

 

[rahod1]

What really amazes me is that, here on this WS discussion thread, it took all of us over a month (I think) before anyone came up with the one (IMO) action that might have been survivable if the family had done it after finding themselves in trouble -- and that would have been to follow the river (submersing and even drinking from it as needed to stay cool) downstream to the highway and then get help from there.
.

BBM and Snipped
That may have been survivable, very LONG (7 miles from bottom HC Road at the river?) to the 140 and far AWAY from the truck. I think the alternative of hiking back UP HC Road ( 2miles), albeit steeper and no water, could have still been a viable alternative as well. I agree that aggressively utilizing the river water could have made the difference in taking the much longer route.

 

[RickshawFan]

Why would the family continue going deeper into the valley when not even a single hiker is spotted there?
There is still no witness from anywhere near the mercer river or the valley.
Just imagining and believing that the family continued heading east toward the SLT is just absurd and ludicrous.
For anyone who thinks the couple pushed themselves harder to reach the highly danger zone area with baby and dog altogether, should maybe take a little break and think it over.
What were they trying to achieve or accomplish by ending up in a high risk area, that they were never familiar to begin with?
It's not even a desirable place for a family picnic out.
They had to just move along as if they had no choice, or possibly got spooked, fearful of something, unable to reverse course.

I believe the majority of posters on this thread are shocked by a decision to do the loop that the couple chose to do. But LE has JG's electronic planning map for evidence that that's what he intended. @MrsEmmaPeel has provided a comparative map from the same app ^^^. It can be presumed that the couple was executing JG's plan, since there was evidence they went down one trail and were heading up another. The only way they could make that happen is if they hiked upstream along the river, just as their pre-planning anticipated they would.
Yes unfathomable. But, per LE, that's what happened. There's not a lot of room to argue with the evidence. LE did a thorough and sensitive job.

 

[RickshawFan]

What really amazes me is that, here on this WS discussion thread, it took all of us over a month (I think) before anyone came up with the one (IMO) action that might have been survivable if the family had done it after finding themselves in trouble -- and that would have been to follow the river (submersing and even drinking from it as needed to stay cool) downstream to the highway and then get help from there.

I think it was @Pumphouse363 who thought of it but I'm not positive. But the idea that for over a month dozens of us who have taken an interest in the case struggled to make sense of the scenario never thought of that (or at least didn't post about it) shows how hard it is for us to think outside the box. Really had an impact on me to realize how limited my own thinking was.

We also came late (maybe a couple of weeks?) to the idea that they could have just turned around. I developed every which concept where they turned around on the SLT after going down just a short distance, I guess because I couldn't cope with the idea that they actually planned the loop or stayed out there in that heat.
There's such a temptation to complete a loop if you're on a loop hike. I guess it's psychological.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

What really amazes me is that, here on this WS discussion thread, it took all of us over a month (I think) before anyone came up with the one (IMO) action that might have been survivable if the family had done it after finding themselves in trouble -- and that would have been to follow the river (submersing and even drinking from it as needed to stay cool) downstream to the highway and then get help from there.

I think it was @Pumphouse363 who thought of it but I'm not positive. But the idea that for over a month dozens of us who have taken an interest in the case struggled to make sense of the scenario never thought of that (or at least didn't post about it) shows how hard it is for us to think outside the box. Really had an impact on me to realize how limited my own thinking was.

I don't agree. It's a long ways to hwy 140, not an easy hike. The the Hites Cove Trail is above the river, and exposed to the sun, and it was still 90F at sunset. If they waited until first light and headed in that direction, once they climbed back to the Hites Cove OHV rd, they might as well have gone up that to their truck. That would have been the safest course, retracing their steps, the devil you know is better than the Devil Gulch you don't know.

 

[sfinkz]

What really amazes me is that, here on this WS discussion thread, it took all of us over a month (I think) before anyone came up with the one (IMO) action that might have been survivable if the family had done it after finding themselves in trouble -- and that would have been to follow the river (submersing and even drinking from it as needed to stay cool) downstream to the highway and then get help from there.

I think it was @Pumphouse363 who thought of it but I'm not positive. But the idea that for over a month dozens of us who have taken an interest in the case struggled to make sense of the scenario never thought of that (or at least didn't post about it) shows how hard it is for us to think outside the box. Really had an impact on me to realize how limited my own thinking was.

Dunno bout that. I joined WS (late, a week after this tragedy, on thread #2) specifically for this case as I have a bit of knowledge of this area. My first post that day asked; which direction of the loop were they hiking and did they have filtration equipment. By my third post a day later I theorized what you suggested. And I’m sure there was prolly someone from thread #1 doing the same. I kinda blathered on over 50 posts in the last two months but not backing away from original premise.

Probably time for me to back away from this until next time, and there will be a next time, for sure.

During lulls in this forum, checked out some of the other discussions. Too real for me, with real victims. Some of the spirit of this community has rubbed off on me, however. Just read my first whodunnit fictionalized murder mystery. If you like the Sierra, with vivid descriptions of trail life, and a good story, with likable characters and an engaging plot, JoBob sez check out ‘Danger: Falling Rocks’ by Paul Wagner, a recent release of a debut novel sure to become a series.

The realization came for me a week ago after being off grid for a week. After taking care of other business at 3 am I found myself posting and catching up on this thread. Wow, this is social media, I thought, I don’t do SM. But that is because of past associations. You guys are all so cool. Sorry, I didn’t ‘like’ any of you but love you all and appreciate learning from your thoughts.

May peace find the C/G families.

 

[rahod1]

I don't agree. It's a long ways to hwy 140, not an easy hike. The the Hites Cove Trail is above the river, and exposed to the sun, and it was still 90F at sunset. If they waited until first light and headed in that direction, once they climbed back to the Hites Cove OHV rd, they might as well have gone up that to their truck. That would have been the safest course, retracing their steps, the devil you know is better than the Devil Gulch you don't know.

Agree. I think *Auntie* was assuming that taking FULL ADVANTAGE of the river water itself would be key to making this option work. In fact, had they been able to do that, they may have avoided certain death. Having said this, I'm of the same opinion you have expressed here... cut bait and take the shortest path back to the truck before it's too late.