Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #63

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SLouTh said:
OK I will confess ....

I think the "school thing" is an error, and possibly that is my fault as I misremembered reading something. (that I can no longer find to reference to)

I sincerely apologize to the thread for this mistake.

IMO
Click to expand...
I thought that whomever posted that had posted a link to an article in MSM about it.
 
Lia Harris
Replying to
@LiaJHarris
The case will be adjourned until December 7, when both will enter a plea. The court heard the foster mother’s lawyer only received the brief of evidence yesterday.

A media lawyer also argued in today's hearing against a court order preventing the media from reporting some aspects of the proceedings. The Magistrate questioned why it's in the public interest, referring to "clickbait".

The Magistrate told the court "in every court in NSW, there are matters not dissimilar to the compliant raised here… These allegations are not the most serious the criminal courts see, by any stretch”. That matter will be decided on December 3.
 
Tench said:
A question for the legal experts:

it has been suggested in previous threads that FGM was/ may have been suffering from dementia. A more recent post states that her will was altered three days before her demise last December. Can a will be changed if the testator lacks testamentary capacity?
Click to expand...

no. It would be invalid due to testamentary incapacity.
 
New article in The Telegraph paraphrased:

  • William Tyrrell's FP today did not enter any plea on charges of assaulting a child.

  • Magistrate Robyn Denes ruled a suppression order was extended on any other details, at Hornsby Local Court.

  • FF's solicitor is Justeen Dormer,

  • FM's solicitor is Sharon Ramsden,

  • Both solicitors said they had only received the “mini” brief of evidence from the police yesterday.

  • FF and FM were granted a two-week adjournment before entering pleas.

  • “The allegations are not the most serious that the courts see by any stretch,” Magistrate Dene said.

  • Solicitor Marlia Saunders, appearing for news organisations including News Corp — publisher of The Daily Telegraph — said it was a matter of public interest and the media sought to report the allegations without identifying anyone involved.

  • Neither FF or FM were required to appear before the court.

  • The magistrate said that if there was going to be a trial in this case, it was unlikely to be heard before August or September next year, such were the delays in the local courts.

  • She adjourned the case to December 3 at 9am.

William Tyrrell’s foster parents did not enter a plea in court today | Daily Telegraph
 
Mrs G Norris said:
It makes no sense, unless she has super long bendy arms like Mr Tickles, and her head is on the end of a very long giraffe like neck and she wasn't looking through the visor, but through a secondary viewing platform like a laptop for instance ..
Click to expand...
Therefore, what FFC said about W looking at her while crouched down taking the photo is physically impossible.
 
Waverider said:
Therefore, what FFC said about W looking at her while crouched down taking the photo is physically impossible.
Click to expand...

Pretty much, it was really strange I thought, also that she felt the need to explain it, and that the explanation made it even more suspect. I don't think I'd even question the fact he wasn't looking at the person taking the photo if she hadn't tried to explain it, but once she did it was like 'OMG is she lying??' .. then you just have to wonder why.

On top of that he's playing 'Daddy Tiger' not 'Mummy Monster' which makes me question whether it was taken when the FF was home .. not wishing to fall into the metadata rabbit hole again, but it is a very strange explanation.
 
The 5 photographs that were taken on the day that William's disappearance occurred were created, and the corrected times are as follows:
it is said all the photographs were taken on the same day 12/9/2014.


1st created ? corrected to 09:35:19
2nd created 07:37:38 corrected to 09:35:28
3rd created 07:37:38 corrected to 09:35:28
4th created 07:39:39 corrected t0 09:37:29
5th created 07:39:54 corrected to 09:37:44

I have seen no reference to the date as recorded on the digital camera and I in no way infer the photographs were not captured on the 12/9/2014.

Something that I have noted is the 4th created time vs the correct hour/minute times are the reverse order. 7.39 vs 9.37.

the above created and corrected times were taken directly from the copies released by the Coroner. I am happy to supply copies if needed.

The 5th photograph is the 'roaring' one.

It is said the digital camera was purchased in Bali and that is the reason for the 2 hour difference in the created and corrected times. There is a anomaly there as it is not exactly 2 hours difference, there is 1:58 difference.

The 1st photograph ever released of William, was the one that showed him as a chubby child with I describe as a spreading bruise on his left cheek and under his left eye - that was released to media on 12/9/2014. I don't know whose care William was in at the time that photograph was taken.

Late morning on 13/9/2014 Superintendant Kim Fehon (who was based in Port Macquarie) fronted the media holding an A4 piece of paper with a photocopy of the 5th 'roar' photograph. I am able to post a screen shot (if required) of Fehon but not a link to the initial media article.

IMO at that time, it was still considered William was a 'lost' child - wandering somewhere in the bushland nearby Benaroon Drive including on the 2nd day when the 'roar' photograph was released. I believe that FACS would have released that photograph to NSWPOL and that it is more likely that the other photographs were not downloaded from the foster carers' digital camera until a few months later.

Daylight saving commenced in NSW on 5/10/2014 and that would mean the clocks went forward one hour so 3 hours difference Bali/NSW. IMO the 5 photographs were then downloaded after 5/10/2014, and the date daylight saving concluded which was 5/4/2015, by either FACS or the NSWPOL homicide squad. Gary Jubelin was in charge of the Rosann taskforce after mid February 2015. The 60 minutes programme aired in April 2015 refer to previous post upthread that contains links to this programme and the 'roar' photograph was included.

A question I would like to pose is were the corrected times manually entered by someone in FACS or NSWPOL at the time the photographs were downloaded onto FACS/NSWPOL computer network/system.

The created vs corrected time anomaly was picked up by one of the legal counsels (according to a post on WS upthread) who then pointed out the anomaly to the biological father's legal representative. IMO there seems to be some sort of connection with preparing the legal brief handed up to the Coroner from NSWPOL that included the photographs with the anomaly. IMO from information I am sure is a correct memory recall, that Gary Jubelin had prepared the that Brief. He was dealing with the Coroner at the time the searches were done in 2018 at Benaroon and Cedar Loggers Lane.

ADDED: when the female foster carer gave her over the top descriptions of how and why she took the 5th 'roar' photograph, was that an attempt to take Michael Usher's mind (and the viewing publics minds) away from other detail that might have been captured in that particular photograph? Not inferring shadows either.
 
Last edited:
Marg944 said:
How can an AVO be adjourned? I thought that it should be a "done deal" if brought on by LE? Or at least the Court would put a temporary order on the person.
Click to expand...
We will have to ask @Cleaver Greene

Perhaps the AVO was granted, but covered by suppression orders?

And it is only the alleged assault charges that have been adjourned???

IMO
 
Gotta have Faith said:
William Tyrrell’s foster parents to face court over assault charge relating to a different child

William Tyrrell’s foster parents were not required to appear in court today on charges over the alleged assault of a child - not William - on Sydney’s upper north shore.

Their lawyers appeared only via video link as the matter was mentioned at Hornsby local court on Tuesday afternoon.
Click to expand...

The abc reported the same news and apparently the judge accused the media of wanting clickbait, when people wanted to be allowed to report more detail. There's another child who had a worse thing happen last week he said. But this child today was in the care of people involved in a missing child's case. I think that's pretty rich of the judge to say it's clickbait. Quite rude. It obviously has relevance to a case in the public interest.
 
sniffsniffcough said:
The 5 photographs that were taken on the day that William's disappearance occurred were created, and the corrected times are as follows:
it is said all the photographs were taken on the same day 12/9/2014.


1st created ? corrected to 09:35:19
2nd created 07:37:38 corrected to 09:35:28
3rd created 07:37:38 corrected to 09:35:28
4th created 07:39:39 corrected t0 09:37:29
5th created 07:39:54 corrected to 09:37:44

I have seen no reference to the date as recorded on the digital camera and I in no way infer the photographs were not captured on the 12/9/2014.

Something that I have noted is the 4th created time vs the correct hour/minute times are the reverse order. 7.39 vs 9.37.

the above created and corrected times were taken directly from the copies released by the Coroner. I am happy to supply copies if needed.

The 5th photograph is the 'roaring' one.

It is said the digital camera was purchased in Bali and that is the reason for the 2 hour difference in the created and corrected times. There is a anomaly there is not exactly 2 hours difference, there is 1:58 difference.

The 1st photograph ever released of William, was the one that showed him as a chubby child with I describe as a spreading bruise on his left cheek and under his left eye - that was released to media on 12/9/2014. I don't know whose care William was in at the time that photograph was taken.

Late morning on 13/9/2014 Superintendant Kim Fehon (who was based in Port Macquarie) fronted the media holding an A4 piece of paper with a photocopy of the 5th 'roar' photograph. I am able to post a screen shot (if required) of Fehon but not a link to the initial media article.

IMO at that time, it was still considered William was a 'lost' child - wandering somewhere in the bushland nearby Benaroon Drive including on the 2nd day when the 'roar' photograph was released. I believe that FACS would have released that photograph to NSWPOL and that it is more likely that the other photographs were not downloaded from the foster carers' digital camera until a few months later.

Daylight saving commenced in NSW on 5/10/2014 and that would mean the clocks went forward one hour so 3 hours difference Bali/NSW. IMO the 5 photographs were then downloaded after 5/10/2014, and the date daylight saving concluded which was 5/4/2015, by either FACS or the NSWPOL homicide squad. Gary Jubelin was in charge of the Rosann taskforce after mid February 2015. The 60 minutes programme aired in April 2015 refer to previous post upthread that contains links to this programme and the 'roar' photograph was included.

A question I would like to pose is were the corrected times manually entered by someone in FACS or NSWPOL at the time the photographs were downloaded onto FACS/NSWPOL computer network/system.

The created vs corrected time anomaly was picked up by one of the legal counsels (according to a post on WS upthread) who then pointed out the anomaly to the biological father's legal representative. IMO there seems to be some sort of connection with preparing the legal brief handed up to the Coroner from NSWPOL that included the photographs with the anomaly. IMO from information I am sure is a correct memory recall, that Gary Jubelin had prepared the that Brief. He was dealing with the Coroner at the time the searches were done in 2018 at Benaroon and Cedar Loggers Lane.

ADDED: when the female foster carer gave her over the top descriptions of how and why she took the 5th 'roar' photograph, was that an attempt to take Michael Usher's mind (and the viewing publics minds) away from other detail that might have been captured in that particular photograph? Not inferring shadows either.
Click to expand...

What puzzles me about the whole photo thing is that if what beimg said is correct, FF went to all the effort to update the time on the camera for a holiday, but then didn't bother to change it back once home. Which seems odd to me, if you where THST concerned about it being right for the holiday, wouldn't you want it back for when your at home too
 
SLouTh said:
New article in The Telegraph paraphrased:

  • William Tyrrell's FP today did not enter any plea on charges of assaulting a child.

  • Magistrate Robyn Denes ruled a suppression order was extended on any other details, at Hornsby Local Court.

  • FF's solicitor is Justeen Dormer,

  • FM's solicitor is Sharon Ramsden,

  • Both solicitors said they had only received the “mini” brief of evidence from the police yesterday.

  • FF and FM were granted a two-week adjournment before entering pleas.

  • “The allegations are not the most serious that the courts see by any stretch,” Magistrate Dene said.

  • Solicitor Marlia Saunders, appearing for news organisations including News Corp — publisher of The Daily Telegraph — said it was a matter of public interest and the media sought to report the allegations without identifying anyone involved.

  • Neither FF or FM were required to appear before the court.

  • The magistrate said that if there was going to be a trial in this case, it was unlikely to be heard before August or September next year, such were the delays in the local courts.

  • She adjourned the case to December 3 at 9am.

William Tyrrell’s foster parents did not enter a plea in court today | Daily Telegraph
Click to expand...
Wonder why FF have seperate lawyers. Courts are soooo slow in Australia. To have to wait so long if there is a trial is beyond a joke!
 
Tench said:
A question for the legal experts:

it has been suggested in previous threads that FGM was/ may have been suffering from dementia. A more recent post states that her will was altered three days before her demise last December. Can a will be changed if the testator lacks testamentary capacity?
Click to expand...
You can certainly challenge a will if you feel the testator did not have capacity, or was unduly influenced. It would be contested by someone who can demonstrate a clear interest in the estate.
Do we know for sure FFC received the entirety of the estate, or is that rumour?
 
Mrs G Norris said:
Pretty much, it was really strange I thought, also that she felt the need to explain it, and that the explanation made it even more suspect. I don't think I'd even question the fact he wasn't looking at the person taking the photo if she hadn't tried to explain it, but once she did it was like 'OMG is she lying??' .. then you just have to wonder why.

On top of that he's playing 'Daddy Tiger' not 'Mummy Monster' which makes me question whether it was taken when the FF was home .. not wishing to fall into the metadata rabbit hole again, but it is a very strange explanation.
Click to expand...

But the FF is not POI. I don't understand why so many go doing that route about the roar picture. Is FM covering for FF, is that the theory?
 
Marg944 said:
How can an AVO be adjourned? I thought that it should be a "done deal" if brought on by LE? Or at least the Court would put a temporary order on the person.
Click to expand...

I think we need to ask one of our legal minds on this thread that same question. I understand today was listed as an AVO mention and my non legal mind says that means today was all about setting a hearing date and not conducting the hearing. The matter adjourned until 7/12/2021 thus giving the defense counsel time to prepare for this hearing as they stated they only received the Brief yesterday. Maybe extra days were added to an initial proposed hearing date.
 
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