Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #63

[they'll get you]

Lols! Ok amateur sleuths! Show yourself and give us the info

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At 8.38am, on April 28, 2012, a member of true-crime forum Websleuths posted on a thread about missing Brisbane woman Allison Baden-Clay: "I'm out this way and I kept getting eerie feelings around Kholo Creek overpass. I know it probably sounds silly, but it's the 'what if'..."

Steve investigated the suicide theory, which was being discussed on Websleuths, and found a just-published scientific paper arguing an elevated reading is unconnected to the amount of the drug taken, due to how the body breaks it down. He sent the information to the DPP, which used it in court to discredit the idea.

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[Cleaver Greene]

I think we need to ask one of our legal minds on this thread that same question. I understand today was listed as an AVO mention and my non legal mind says that means today was all about setting a hearing date and not conducting the hearing. The matter adjourned until 7/12/2021 thus giving the defense counsel time to prepare for this hearing as they stated they only received the Brief yesterday. Maybe extra days were added to an initial proposed hearing date.

An AVO is still a disputed hearing unless a defendant consents to it. I don’t like AVOs and I rarely recommend that my clients consent to them.

So if they are disputed, there will still need to be a trial and prosecution will need to disclose all evidence in support of the need for an AVO. Then witnesses need to give evidence at trial. I imagine in this case, that will take months.

As someone else said upthread, if there are grounds, then an AVO will be issued on an interim basis until trial. The bar for an interim AVO is very very low; basically the sworn statement of a person or police officer.

 

[Calsterr]

Trial by judge alone is possible in NSW.

Interesting....so how does it get decided between a trial with a Judge alone or with a Jury?

 

[Cleaver Greene]

Seperate lawyers is this standard protocol ? Legal eagles?

Yes

 

[Gotta have Faith]

No plea from Tyrrell’s foster parents

William Tyrrell’s foster parents will enter a plea to assault charges against them in two weeks, Sydney’s Hornsby Local Court heard this afternoon.

They have been charged with assaulting a child. The child is not William Tyrrell.

On Tuesday, Magistrate Robyn Denes told the court there was a suppression order on any details that identify the parties involved.

The defendants cannot be named for legal reasons, while a non-publication order also restricts reporting on the nature of the allegations.

“The orders are necessary to prevent any prejudice to the public administration of justice, but also it’s necessary to protect the safety of a person to avoid any undue distress or embarrassment to the parties involved,” she said.

A lawyer representing media organisations sought to challenge the non-publication order regarding the nature of the allegations. She told the court her clients wanted to be able to report on the cases on a “deidentified basis”.

 

[Gotta have Faith]

An AVO is still a disputed hearing unless a defendant consents to it. I don’t like AVOs and I rarely recommend that my clients consent to them.

So if they are disputed, there will still need to be a trial and prosecution will need to disclose all evidence in support of the need for an AVO. Then witnesses need to give evidence at trial. I imagine in this case, that will take months.

As someone else said upthread, if there are grounds, then an AVO will be issued on an interim basis until trial. The bar for an interim AVO is very very low; basically the sworn statement of a person or police officer.

Why would it take so long to go to trial? People can forget things, memories are a funny thing. Why not have the trial while minds are still fresh to details?

 

[SouthAussie]

In the courtroom in New South Wales, the following rules of etiquette should be maintained:

Turn of all mobile and electronic devices.

• Do not speak unless instructed by the judicial officer.
• Do not eat, drink or smoke.
• Do not record or publish any of the proceeding, including by posting details on social media.

www.gotocourt.com.au/criminal-law/nsw/court-etiquette/

And yet the media purchase the court documents and then publish (non-suppressed) details, as well as report from the courtroom ... almost immediately, with tweets, if they are allowed (and it seems they often are allowed).

 

[JBowie]

In thread #62 drsleuth asked:

Where has she mentioned brothers??

Answer: here at 6:28

 

[SouthAussie]

Why would it take so long to go to trial? People can forget things, memories are a funny thing. Why not have the trial while minds are still fresh to details?

BBM
"The magistrate said that if there was going to be a trial in this case, it was unlikely to be heard before August or September next year, such were the delays in the local courts."

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #63

 

[Carmen_Sandiego]

The FGM likely would not have been allowed to supervise the children.

Authorised carers are expected to: (From FACS)

 Follow the lawful policies, procedures and guidelines brought to your attention by the designated agency

 Maintain the rights of the child and young person in your care as set out in the NSW Charter of Rights for Children and Young People in Out-of-Home Care in NSW

 Immediately report to the designated agency any allegations or incidents of abuse, neglect or ill-treatment you are aware of

 Permit and support access by the designated agency, at any reasonable hour and on reasonable notice, to the child or young person for the purpose of consultation, assessment, monitoring, case planning and case management

 Actively participate in the development, implementation and review of case plans for the child and young person in your care. Care environment Family and significant others

 Provide a physical environment that is safe, clean and comfortable and meets the needs of the child or young person in your care

 Respect the child or young person’s personal privacy and ensure secure storage and respect of their belongings

 Provide a range of age and developmentally appropriate social and recreational activities and experiences

 Permit and support access by the designated agency, at any reasonable hour and on reasonable notice, to the home environment for assessment of safety and suitability prior to and during placements

 Report immediately to the designated agency any incidents3 in the care environment or any change in household membership

 Not discharge the child or young person into the care of any other person, other than a staff member of the designated agency having supervisory responsibility or a person with parental responsibility for the child or young person without the written approval of the principal officer of the designated agency or by court order4

 Provide a care environment where the child or young person is not exposed to physical, sexual, psychological or verbal abuse, ill treatment or neglect.

 Recognise and respect that the child or young person has a right to maintain relationships with birth family, other significant individuals and their cultural and/or religious community where appropriate and safe to do so

 Support these relationships in accordance with the child or young person’s care plan and any relevant court orders.

Source: Family & Community Services Download

 

[Calsterr]

BBM
"The magistrate said that if there was going to be a trial in this case, it was unlikely to be heard before August or September next year, such were the delays in the local courts."

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #63

That's a long time. In these situations, do the FP's get supervised visitation or allowed any contact with the FC between now and a potential trial?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Considering all the strict rules around fostering, it's almost like if WT was anything other than a random abduction that the FP's would have lost custody of the FD too.

 

[Gotta have Faith]

The FGM likely would not have been allowed to supervise the children.

Authorised carers are expected to: (From FACS)

 Follow the lawful policies, procedures and guidelines brought to your attention by the designated agency

 Maintain the rights of the child and young person in your care as set out in the NSW Charter of Rights for Children and Young People in Out-of-Home Care in NSW

 Immediately report to the designated agency any allegations or incidents of abuse, neglect or ill-treatment you are aware of

 Permit and support access by the designated agency, at any reasonable hour and on reasonable notice, to the child or young person for the purpose of consultation, assessment, monitoring, case planning and case management

 Actively participate in the development, implementation and review of case plans for the child and young person in your care. Care environment Family and significant others

 Provide a physical environment that is safe, clean and comfortable and meets the needs of the child or young person in your care

 Respect the child or young person’s personal privacy and ensure secure storage and respect of their belongings

 Provide a range of age and developmentally appropriate social and recreational activities and experiences

 Permit and support access by the designated agency, at any reasonable hour and on reasonable notice, to the home environment for assessment of safety and suitability prior to and during placements

 Report immediately to the designated agency any incidents3 in the care environment or any change in household membership

 Not discharge the child or young person into the care of any other person, other than a staff member of the designated agency having supervisory responsibility or a person with parental responsibility for the child or young person without the written approval of the principal officer of the designated agency or by court order4

 Provide a care environment where the child or young person is not exposed to physical, sexual, psychological or verbal abuse, ill treatment or neglect.

 Recognise and respect that the child or young person has a right to maintain relationships with birth family, other significant individuals and their cultural and/or religious community where appropriate and safe to do so

 Support these relationships in accordance with the child or young person’s care plan and any relevant court orders.

Source: Family & Community Services Download

 Recognise and respect that the child or young person has a right to maintain relationships with birth family, other significant individuals and their cultural and/or religious community where appropriate and safe to do so

This is interesting. WT had a right to maintain a relationship with birth family.

 

[k-mac]

Tiff23 and and fellow Websulths, just a request, if it is a helpful idea , Could Drslelth and others conversation thread who attended William Inquest can they be put into a Non discussion folder thread along with the reported daily procedure of the Inquest, so we can look up or check facts. It is just a thought, finding hard to keep track in what was said at the Inquest.
If it already done, sorry I did not know. I am losing my memory or brain tired due to COVID and Homeschooling, or just getting old.

IMO there really wasn't much facts brought to the inquest.
A whole lot of reaching for boogie mans.

moo

 

[JudgeJudi]

It is my understanding that persons here at WS, who were able to attend the Inquest, have only ever verified the published media articles on the case.

Also in my opinion, they have shown great restraint on the thread., as many of us, including myself, would love to know more..... but that information has been suppressed by the Coroner, and that ruling has been abided by our posters.

We are all very grateful for their contribution.

All IMO

Apologies @JudgeJudi ... I hope in no way have I offended you, and I love your legal contribution to the thread!

I appreciate your posts SLouTh, but there was no need to apologise because you've never offended me in any way. Others on the thread are so much more knowledgeable than me in this case and it's hard to take in the complexities of a case that's been running for years, so I try and contribute in other ways.

 

[Carmen_Sandiego]

That's a long time. In these situations, do the FP's get supervised visitation or allowed any contact with the FC between now and a potential trial?

Not if there is an interim AVO.

 

[JWSleuth]

It is my understanding that persons here at WS, who were able to attend the Inquest, have only ever verified the published media articles on the case.

Also in my opinion, they have shown great restraint on the threa

Why would it take so long to go to trial? People can forget things, memories are a funny thing. Why not have the trial while minds are still fresh to details?

think pretty standard timing and actually quite quick Victoria resets are running around 3-4 months (However would depend on the seriousness would assume)

 

[Gotta have Faith]

Not if there is an interim AVO.

Ok the mention was today, what happens in 2 weeks? Is that when a decision will be made for an interim AVO? Meaning in 2 weeks it will decided based on evidence if this goes to trial and then the interim AVI is issued? What happens to the other FC in their care? Are they then removed also?

 

[drsleuth]

In thread #62 drsleuth asked:



Answer: here at 6:28

Thankyou, so we know know if they still live there??? The FFC is saying her brother's brought his children up in the area. I guess that was many years ago??

 

[Calsterr]

Not if there is an interim AVO.

Which won't be considered until 7th December? Sorry, just trying to get my braincells all on the same page.