Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #63

[Estelle]

I have just had a thought. During Covid19 lockdown in NSW children were not attending school in person where they, home schooling became the norm? Did the NSWPOL action co-incide with children returning to school and a school teacher or onsite nurse or medically trained person notice a change in behaviour or demeanour and/or injury. Children were also sent off to receive Covid19 vaccinations, could something have been spotted then?

IMO LT could have been too fearful of the consequences of telling anyone about the alleged abuse she may have been suffering. FFC had been accustomed to having her days to herself and then she had to homeschool LT. A professional could have noticed that LT had a bruise on her or noticed that she looked sad and she started crying which led to her opening up. ALL IMO

 

[sniffsniffcough]

could some one please add the 5 photos mentioned with their time & corrected data as I’ve noticed subtle differences of things within photos that I believe would take more than a second or millisecond to happen.

if absolutely all things such as crayons and the like are positioned exact then I’d believe it were possible

I will post these timestamped photos in about an hour or so. Sorting through my 1000s of screen snips. details posted were taken from my notes.

 

[iiiii's]

Does anyone have a link to the interview in which the FFC says she took 3 photos?

Just wanted to state the obvious after all these years, but it occurs to me that when the FP's answer questions in media interviews, they don't have to tell the truth. They are not obliged although if they are caught out in a lie by some investigative journo that would be very embarrassing, it's not the same as making a statement to police or swearing something in court. Wish we had transcript of the coroner's court evidence. MOO

 

[Green beans]

I will post these timestamped photos in about an hour or so. Sorting through my 1000s of screen snips. details posted were taken from my notes.

Thanks! Sorry I know it’s lazy of me to not look myself, I am not good with clocks- daylight savings alone throws me as I have dyscalculia haha so I’m not going to try and understand the time / corrected time posts.
That said, I think it’s worth us all looking at them as in sequence as a whole to see visual discrepancies with time stamps present

 

[drsleuth]

I have just had a thought. During Covid19 lockdown in NSW children were not attending school in person where they, home-schooling became the norm? Did the NSWPOL action co-incide with children returning to school-based learning and a school teacher or onsite nurse or medically trained person notice a change in behaviour or demeanour and/or injury. Children were also sent off to receive Covid19 vaccinations, could something have been spotted then?

Children under 12 yrs are not eligible for a covid vaccination

 

[inkpink]

i wonder if this photo from the g jubelins former police work board has any relevance now, or if it ever did? its always bothered me

In this photo he hasn't got the t- shirt on, under the Spider-Man costume or is this the t-shirt that was under the costume?

 

[Deleted member 161976]

Did he use his phone for the meeting? Is 9.30 the time the meeting started?

Not sure if it was stated whether he used a phone or computer for the meeting. It would have to be a device with mobile data or a device(phone or computer) connected to wi-fi for GoTo meeting. 930 start time for meeting would tie in with what was stated at inquest. i.e he left around 9, drove 10 minutes to Lakewood, would give you time to prep/set up for 930 meeting.

The man said he had driven to nearby Lakewood about 9am for a strong internet connection for a conference call and planned to return to the house about 10.30am.

William Tyrrell's foster father 'hysterical' when child went missing, inquest hears

 

[dragon52]

Yes IMO that is quite possible. IMO LT could have been too fearful of the consequences of telling anyone about the alleged abuse she may have been suffering. FFC had been accustomed to having her days to herself and then she had to homeschool LT. A professional, as you have suggested, could have noticed that LT had a bruise on her or noticed that she looked sad and she started crying which led to her opening up. ALL IMO

We have no idea.
The FC’s are alleged to have assaulted LT.
DOCS have done the right thing by removing the child from their care while there is the possibility of abuse and while the FFC is a POI in the disappearance of WT. IMO.
My heart goes out to LT in all this. So much loss and disruption in such a short life.

 

[JayWill]

Thanks! Sorry I know it’s lazy of me to not look myself, I am not good with clocks- daylight savings alone throws me as I have dyscalculia haha so I’m not going to try and understand the time / corrected time posts.
That said, I think it’s worth us all looking at them as in sequence as a whole to see visual discrepancies with time stamps present

Join the club.

 

[organised_chaos]

I just wanted to share this information with you about disclosure of childhood abuse. If (possibly) LT has disclosed to someone, then this would not have been an easy process for her. I just thought it was important to understand how difficult this would have been if LT disclosed. Remembering that someone else could also have acted on her behalf.

Many children do not disclose abuse at all during childhood (London, Bruck, Ceci, & Shuman, 2005; Ullman, 2003). Delays in disclosure may be linked to a range of factors including concerns regarding the consequences of disclosing. For example, one study found that many children expected negative consequences for themselves and/or another person (usually their mother or sibling) if they disclosed (Malloy, Brubacher, & Lamb, 2011). These expected consequences included physical harm and/or death.

taken from: Responding to children and young people’s disclosures of abuse

Another great empirical read - (this is a swedish study, but a very good read)

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13575279.2018.1555139

 

[iiiii's]

The information in that written article is more than I heard on the news broadcast for sure. The last week's news about the current POI is rather upsetting me at the moment after reading this article. It throws a really dark thunderous cloud over the presentation of these three albums to the Coroner IMO. This is such a heart-wrenching mind-numbing case IMO. Never before have I experienced thoughts that I currently experience.

Can you post the paragraphs that have set off your dark thoughts please?

 

[StrangerDanger]

Just a comment re the AVO-

I’m not in NSW but in all my years of working in foster care and kinship care, I have never heard of an AVO being taken out against a carer when there has been an allegation (of any kind) made against them. I doubt they would have done so if it wasn’t for the backdrop of WT’s disappearance.

What normally would happen in my state at least is that a police special child abuse team would be involved to interview the child, potentially lay charges (though again I have never seen a case where what was alleged to have happened led to charges- the majority of physical abuse allegations I dealt with were smacking which carers are not allowed to do).

The child can be removed regardless of the police’s involvement or subsequent action- the level of evidence required is lower than what is required for court. It’s a matter of determining the ‘likelihood’ that it happened, so Eg. Was there a witness, injuries, do the stories match up etc. the police can also take quite a long time to investigate and lay charges so sometimes it’s a matter of urgency to remove the child before the police get around to doing anything formal. Hypothetically the presence of a bruise and information from the child to indicate that it was caused by a carer would be plenty of evidence to remove a child, so an AVO isn’t generally necessary.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

These are the possibilities still running through my head on what happened to William ...

1. Ran off into bushland became lost and perished, body not found.

2. Ran off into bushland attacked by wild dogs, perished, body not found.

3. Ran off into bushland and opportunistic abduction takes place.

4. Ran onto street and was hit by passing car and body bundled into the boot and hidden by persons unknown.

5. Ran onto street and opportunistic abduction takes place.

6. Had an accident at FGM’s, perished, and body was hidden by FM.

7. Was abused at FGM’s, perished, and body hidden by FM.

8. Deliberate murder at FGM’s, and body hidden by FM.

9. Stalked at FGM’s by persons unknown and taken when opportunity presented itself.

10. Targeted abduction by birth family (or associates), WT taken and hidden, then when the heat became too strong kept away since he couldn’t be returned to them.

11. Targeted abduction by birth family (or associates), WT taken away and hidden then when heat became too strong murdered.

... has anyone got any others, which can be ruled out if any?

 

[sniffsniffcough]

Timestamped photos as promised

Initially obtained from NoCookies | The Australian

Here are photos for those that cannot view above article. Posted descending order per timestamp.

The 1st photo I did not make a note of initially and I don't know why! So it was not included in yesterday's post.

The 2nd photo is the 1st photo I posted yesterday but now there is the created time of 07.37.29

The 3rd, 4th and 5th photos are the same as what I posted yesterday.

These photos included the DSC and DCIM codes.

In the first photo below I see a pair of dutch clogs which to me verifies there is a dutch ancestry connection and that is why FFC refers to her father as the childrens' Opa which translates to grandfather.

I cannot see any cup of tea on the small table next to foster grannie (RIP). Can anyone recall a time that FFC said she made the cup of tea? I see William's sister is wearing red sandals. William is not wearing sandals and they appear to be places next to the door mat. I can't make out which way they face? To me if William removed the sandals before he entered the house the toe end would face towards the door opening. The 'roar' photo is the last photo in this series.















Googles searches re the DSC code show this code is possibly an inbuilt code numbering system held on what? An inserted chip card?

The DCIM code relates to a folder that photos are stored in?

 

[Estelle]

We have no idea.
The FC’s are alleged to have assaulted LT.
DOCS have done the right thing by removing the child from their care while there is the possibility of abuse and while the FFC is a POI in the disappearance of WT. IMO.
My heart goes out to LT in all this. So much loss and disruption in such a short life.

What I have been trying to understand is why the Judge felt the need to publicly downplay the alleged assault on LT in such a way which IMO is not professional. And why the FP's defence so far is that LT procured the possible bruises from a horse.

In New South Wales common assault carries a maximum penalty of two years imprisonment and/or a fine of 50 penalty units. A person is often charged with common assault where he or she assaults another person, but does not cause an injury amounting to actual bodily harm (for example bruising or scratches) or grievous bodily harm (e.g. causing loss of sight, complicated fractures or significant injuries requiring surgery).

What Is Common Assault?
An assault is an act that causes another person to apprehend immediate and unlawful violence. While most assaults involve unwanted physical contact an assault does not necessarily require actual physical contact. All it requires it that the victim apprehends physical contact. So if, for example, a person raises his or her fist to another person, an assault could be found to have occurred, despite the other person not actually being hit. At law this is known as the distinction between “battery” (causing physical contact) and “assault” (causing the apprehension of physical contact).

The following acts constitute common assault:

• Punching, hitting, slapping, pushing or kicking another person;
• Raising a fist towards a person as though to hit that person;
• Spitting upon another person;
• Threatening to hurt another person;
• Throwing an item (such as a bottle) at another person (whether or not it makes contact);
• Physically restraining someone against their will.

Common assault can cover a range of actions and injuries, It is a less serious offence than assault occasioning actual bodily harm (AOABH) or causing grievous bodily harm (GBH), which involve harm to the victim. It is not uncommon for the police to charge a person with AOABH where the alleged conduct would sit comfortably within the definition of common assault.

Thoroughly understanding the definitions of common assault and AOABH is critical to successfully negotiating with prosecutors and can mean the difference between a person facing a maximum 2 years imprisonment for common assault or a maximum 5 years imprisonment for AOABH.

Which Court Will Hear The Matter?
Common assault is generally dealt with in the Local Court. However, the prosecution or defence can elect to have the matter dealt with in the District Court. If the matter is dealt with in the Local Court the maximum penalty is 2 years imprisonment and/or 20 penalty units.

What Must Be Proven?
For a person to be found guilty of common assault, the prosecution must prove each of the following matters beyond a reasonable doubt:

• that the accused applied physical force to another person; or
• that the accused threatened another with immediate violence; and this was done:
• internationally or recklessly; and
• without the person’s consent; and
• without lawful excuse.

Common Assault NSW - Charges, Penalties and Sentencing

 

[HilaryHormone]

I reckon WT was facing slightly more to the right than your arrow shows. I’ve found some more photos which show there was possibly another chair beside the table, possibly a plant pot and also a washing line attached to the wall so quite a busy corner.

William was facing the rear garden area of 48 Benaroon. If you can imagine behind William is the part of the home building and behind that is the letterbox area of 48 Benaroon.

Below is an aerial shot of the property taken in 2014. William is red arrow showing approximate location of William with arrow showing direction he was facing. the yellow highlight is the 48 letterbox. I think the 'white thing' you are referring to is either the sky/sunshine. I refer to the the area where William was facing whilst being photographed, as the 'rear' of the house.

View attachment 323667

This is a street view which shows what I refer to as the front of the house. IMO a property letterbox is at the 'front' of a house (a suppressed name on the letterbox has been redacted) . 48 Benaroon Drive is on a large corner block within the elbow/bend of Benaroon Drive. The high balcony area runs along the right-hand side of the house as viewed in this shot - see another shot below. There is a small section of handrail of the high balcony in view. The under-house garage is to the right of the entrance stairs that lead to the front door. Last weeks intensive search was done in this garage.
View attachment 323671

here is what I call the side of the house that fronts onto Benaroon Drive - the high balcony area is in view, that was subjected to intensive search last week. the underhouse garage that was searched is to the left. beyond that is the above carport area. If you watch some of the 60 minutes video I linked yesterday upthread, you will see that there was much more foliage growing under this high balcony area that has been removed since 2014.
View attachment 323672
In the 16/9/2014 walk-through conducted by NSWPOL with FFC, this is the area where FFC and the NSWPOL detective were standing. FFC faced the road no the high balcony or garden area when she was explaining to the detective her drive down Batar Creek Road. There are numerous discussions upthread that have a link to this 22 second section of the recorded walk-through released by the Coroner. It was during FFC testimony that the drive down Batar Creek Road was revealed publicy for the first time as far as I know.
View attachment 323676



View attachment 323670

The above is a 2014 view which shows the carport did not have a wall at the rear, so you could walk through the carport to and from the small deck area where William was sitting/playing. I am trying to locate a photograph I have seen that shows the 2 children's bikes stored in the carport - its in my mind's eye so I am positive I have seen it. Can anyone help with that photo please?

The car in the carport is obviously not the Mazda currently being referred to in numerous media links upthread, as owned by foster grannie on 12/9/2014. It may belong to a future owner or to the deceased husband (died February 2014) of foster grannie.

I believe this driveway is the one on which William road is bike and crashed it into the garden bed deliberately (as detailed by FFC) in media articles posted upthread recently. IMO

Hope this helps for you to visualize. Ignore the red-line as it pertains to a radial distance calculation I posted a few threads ago, that showed the Cobb and Co/Batar Creek Roads search area.

 

[Cant run and hide]

Well, I cannot believe a paedophile lay in wait at the FGMs house, waiting for the opportunity to snatch WT. So, if it was an abduction, then the BPs fall squarely into view. They were, after all, leading ignoble enough lives to have been dispossessed of their children, so, naturally, suspicion would fall on them.
Naturally, the police would have checked their alibis, so you'd assume they were ruled out, but the FM was also ruled out, by the nowadays very public GJ, no less, who still vouches for her, and now she's back in the frame. So what gives?
The irony is that if the FPs are disreputable enough to have their children taken off them, then how could they masterfully plan a kidnapping and a 7-year-long hiding of WT. If they're wayward, then they couldn't hide WT away for so long. But that then leads me to assume WT died in the process of kidnapping, and that is why the biological father is now guilt-riddled over the kidnapping of his son, which was of his own doing.
For some reason i think the BF and the BGM were involved but the BM (biological mother) was not. Was the BGM the mother of WTs biological father?
But i think it is also highly likely that associates of theirs were involved in the kidnapping, and it was not the biological parents at all. I suppose the police think this is an implausible theory as dopey people as the biological parents know other dopey people and there is no way those types of crews would keep a kidnapping gone awry resulting in the death of WT secret for so many years.
But, then, where does that leave us? Either a paedophile kidnapping, or the FM having in a panic in the wake of the balcony fall disposed of WT in a shallow grave.
Given GJ's suspicion of the substance of the most recent theories implicating the FM and searches, and given the FP's labeling of 'fake news' the apparent new witness, I find it absolutely shocking that the police are thinking, well, Ronald Chapman was past it and imagining things, the biological parents are too incompetent to pull off a successful heist, leaving only the balcony fall theory. So the balcony fall theory doesn't really have that much going for it, except for the fact it is the least implausible scenario. That's half-way ridiculous considering Ronald Chapman sounds PERFECTLY BELIEVABLE to me!!!!!
Therefore, if someone did snatch WT in a 4WD, where are those cars? Did the police give them a serious search or were they too busy chasing imaginary paedophiles leaping out of the bushes? The "shambles" might have been the paedophile chases and the disbelieving of Ronald Chapman. How could Ronald Chapman imagine seeing WT dressed in a Spiderman suit? Are the police implying the lonely Ronald Chapman, not having much of a social life, insinuated himself into the WT case for some spice in his life?
I'd like to know how much searching for the 4wd and sedan was done, in which it seems WT was kidnapped.

The birth parents were in Sydney the day William went missing .
They went to their home that day to check if William was there.
They were verified by CCTV footage and receipts of their where abouts that day.
Williams birth mother has had an extremely tough few years.
She is a mess, has suffered numerous breakdowns , same as his father .
Not much support has been made available for those two, infact it's disgusting.

 

[iiiii's]

The 1st 2 seems to be taken by the FFC standing on the deck and the next 3 it looks like she was probably standing on the grass next to the deck getting the camera close to ground level. i don't see anything weird about it or him roaring in the last photo and looking elsewhere. the only thing I find strange is her explanation for how she took that shot. The last 2 shots could be her taking the photo from the grass or sitting in the seat near the FGM and leaning forward. I would still like to see anything would come from the reflection in his eye. Moo

Please disregard photos, Just saw sniffs post

 

[SouthAussie]

What I have been trying to understand is why the Judge felt the need to publicly downplay the alleged assault on LT in such a way which IMO is not professional.

I think it is highly likely that the judge sees some pretty horrific cases of abuse - perhaps cigarette burns, starvation, lice, other nasties - and on the judge's professional scale, the alleged abuse doesn't rate very high.

Perhaps the judge also thinks this could be a frivolous charge. We don't know the details or circumstances.

As the child has been removed and is under the watch of FaCS, there seems to be no imminent danger.

imo

 

[Inplainsight]

The FGM had to be told to stop talking about the foster children in the town prior to the WT disappearance.

She is described as 'no shrinking violet'

She is the one who named the the neighbour at #31 as suspicious. She was not fond of PS either.

Her husband had died in March, she had had a knee operation and was in the settlement phase of selling the family home.

The foster family surprised her a day earlier than expected, to provide assistance for the house sale. They had not visited since the father's death.

A FACS condition for visiting, was that the washing machine worked and the cat was put into kennels WT suffered from asthma. The washing machine had not been repaired.

The FGM said the photos were taken on the balcony- not the patio.

FGM was the last to see WT, she said he took the 2 steps off the patio and ran onto the lawn. FM was making the tea.

The FGM witness statement makes no mention of her daughter using her car to search for WT.

It would be fair to say that following a recent death, an operation and sale of a family home, the impact of WT's disappearance may have been too much.

Being the one in charge of the child, on the patio, the sense of responsibility would not be lost here. Yet her voice has barely heard throughout. Sometimes the answers are in the quiet places.