sian morris
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MG phoned DL and local hospitals before calling the police, didn't he?
Yes
MG phoned DL and local hospitals before calling the police, didn't he?
I didn't know that MG went to Shorrolds Road twice that day, does it state in AS's book what times these were? Did he have someone with him both times? Did he enter the property both times?
Also where did AS get his information from about MG that day? Did he actually speak to MG himself or was it from the police reports from the time Suzy went missing?
Another thing that I am curious about is what time did MG return to the office after his extended lunch in the Crocodile Tears? I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere at all?
MG was interviewed twice in DV's book but at no time does he mention going to Shorrolds Road twice, entering the property and speaking to HR amongst other things. I would of thought that he would have vivid recollections of that particular day even 30-odd years later.
1. 'By the middle of the afternoon he and his colleagues were concerned' (AS). Later on in the book, MG states it was around 3.30pm (p129). So the first time to Shorrolds Rd was after around 3.30pm, and 'with a colleague' (AS). The second time it just states 'He returned to Shorrolds Rd: still nothing (AS).' This was after he had phoned SL's flat.
I don't know if MG entered the property both times: AS just states 'found no sign of S in or out of the house' (the first time) and 'He returned to Shorrolds Rd: still nothing' (AS).
Unable to answer your questions 2 & 3. Your last paragraph: perhaps MG did mention all this information, but DV chose not to use it in his book???
As an aside, I have just noted on p128 (AS) that SL's sister confirmed the information about the 'married man' and that SL was seeing him 3 weeks before she disappeared. Also SL told JH about the 'married man' shortly before she disappeared. We still don't know who this person is.
Thank you for replying @sian morris.
Perhaps the reason why MG went to Shorrolds Road twice is that the first time he went to look for Suzy he didn't have the keys; Then at some point when he returned to the office he found the set of keys and that's why he paid a return visit, so he could check inside the property as well?
As you say DV could have left the information out of his book. However, he considers the mystery of the keys as a strong point to support his theory of what happened to Suzy that day (as we know he believes that she didn't go to Shorrolds Road at all and that the keys were still in the office) so this information about MG going twice to the property and looking inside would have been important to him.
In fact in his book (Page 105) DV states after interviewing MG that 'we know he didn't have a spare key. He didn't go inside to look for Suzy because he says he assumed Suzy had the key. MJ from Fulham CID doesn't go to 37 Shorrolds Road that night because he assumed that MG had looked inside. Which we know he didn't.'
But according to AS's book HE DID!
It doesn't make sense. So DV believes that the keys for Sh Rd were still in the office. Surely MG would have checked whether the Sh Rd keys were on their hook before going to Sh Rd, even if he had assumed SL had taken them?
The fact that Fulham CID didn't check Sh Rd themselves, I find quite incredible.
So confusing, as AS states that MG remembered SL picking up the keys.
It would have been impossible for MG to have remembered Suzy picking up the keys because he wasn't in the office at the time she left at around 12.40 - he was lunching at the Crocodile Tears.
Again, it would be good to know the source of AS's information as regards MG.
AS's book states that MG had lunch at the Crocodile Tears, but gives no timings.
It doesn't make sense. So DV believes that the keys for Sh Rd were still in the office. Surely MG would have checked whether the Sh Rd keys were on their hook before going to Sh Rd, even if he had assumed SL had taken them?
The fact that Fulham CID didn't check Sh Rd themselves, I find quite incredible.
So confusing, as AS states that MG remembered SL picking up the keys.
There were only ONE set of keys, says DV. The problem was that latterly everyone thought there were TWO sets of keys and SL had one of them.
The property had been on the market less than TWO weeks and the man selling the property, a helicopter pilot overseas, had ONLY given Sturgis ONE set of keys. He has confirmed this, allegedly. So, there was only ever one set of keys suggests DV.
It took time to get extra sets cut and often only happened if there was great demand back then.
Sturgis apparently had a clear system of any duplicate sets of keys all being on one ring - it doesn't seem that logical but this does still happen today in some London Estate Agents.
In this case, as everyone KNEW that SL went to meet Mr Kipper it and was assumed that is where she went with keys just as she had put in her diary. No need to overthink or give more bandwidth to it people thought. If SL hadn't put Kipper in the diary this error might have been spotted earlier? As it was she was seen outside, SL, so everyone thought, the keys seemed neither here nor there. Things snowballed. The woman seen and later abducted at Shorrolds Rd was what everyone invested in.
It was interesting to see in a recent Doc that some of the original police seemed to think, I believe, it was possible that Shorrolds a ruse too, and SL never went there.
I think the nuances of language could play a role in the interpretation of MG's (or anyone else's) account of SL and the keys to number 37. If the police asked, for example, 'What did Suzi do before she left the office?', the response 'She would have taken the keys with her' is very different from 'She took the keys with her' but could have been construed as fact that SL having taken the keys...
FWIW, from everything I've read, I think there was just one set and she didn't take it with her MOO
It wasn't that there were only one set of keys for each Sturgis property, definitively.
You're right re: MS.
We do know there were only one set of keys in the first place for 37 Shorrolds Rd, apparently. They had been given by the vendor allegedly, only a week or so earlier to Sturgis. So if any duplicate set, on a ring or otherwise, this additional set of keys would have had to have been proactively cut by a member of the office. This would have had to have happened almost immediately if so and an irregular action it would seem given what was common practice at time and from what MS himself says.
In From the Files Podcast: 'Suzy didn't take the keys with her' says DV. 'They only had one set of keys'. 'Scene of crimes officer, who entered the premises the next day, used the keys to enter the property' 'the police believed that they had one set and Suzy had the other'.
A very interesting discussion on the keys, it is odd (but logical) to keep sets of keys together.
After all in a busy office keys could get lost, and then they’d have to change the locks as a precaution.
Logically MG went to Shorrolds without the keys, thinking SJL had them, then returned a second time and this time with the keys to look inside. This makes sense if he took a colleague with him as he didn’t know what he might find.
Don’t understand why DV doesn’t make a point of this, he must have reached this conclusion, I understand he has said subsequently that he knows who’s responsible for the whole key scenario, but will not say.
I’m assuming the police broke into SJL’s flat because NB was not available, unless the door had a mortise lock I can’t see why they needed to break down the door.
The same thing goes for Shorrolds, AS’s book cover shows Yale lock keys, so even without the keys they could have entered without damaging the front door.
What also makes sense is the Mr Kipper appointment and when this was put in SJL’s desk diary. If we believe she wanted to get out of the office that lunchtime and the DV accounts are correct, then she’d have waited until MG & co went to lunch before putting this in her desk diary.
Logically if Mr Kipper was a fabrication you’d not want to risk being questioned by the senior enforcer about him.
Just a few thoughts.
I believe that is correct, that the police were led to believe that they had a spare set of keys to let them into Shorrolds Road on the Tuesday morning, and that Suzy had the other set of keys which were missing.
Without directly saying it's him DV firmly points the finger at MG for the confusion about the keys.
MG's actions do seem a bit odd that afternoon, and we can only wonder why he didn't make clear to the police that there were only one set of keys to the property.
All he could do was what the police would have done, which was to look in her desk diary to find out where she was meant to be. So whatever he told them about how she came to leave the office might have contained a fair bit of supposition and inference mistaken for fact as rls11 points out.
If he went there more than once and took SF with him, this admits the possibility that all the supposed sightings of "Mr Kipper" and SJL were in fact sightings of MG and SF. If the only visit MG and SF made was one where they spoke to HR, then this can't be so.