Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #141

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I have to admit I have *no* idea what the numbers actually are. But I'm certain that none of my immediate family, and none of my wife's immediate family, have been genotyped for any reason. I don't know of any of our friends or coworkers who have been typed, though I can't be certain of all of them. Is DNA typing for non-forensic reasons really so common?
I would say something less than but approaching half of the people I know have submitted their DNA to a genealogical database. Start a conversation simply about genetics, like "I'm pretty sure I'm mostly off German descent but I don't know 100% for sure..." and I guarantee you that somebody will be glad to tell you all about how they swabbed themselves and mailed it off and were surprised about the results they received.

Unless there comes a trend of people intentionally poisoning the well by sending in swabs of random people under various identities it's not a question of if there will be an effectively complete database of our DNA, just of when.
 
JBC certainly does make for a seemingly ideal POI, but so have others. I have to remind myself that we only have a fraction of the information LE possesses and it's their job to be thorough. I wouldn't want them to jump on any one person based on circumstantial fb posts, etc, but then miss the real killer. Because whoever killed those poor girls is a danger to us all.

I agree. LE, privy to all the evidence and isn’t pointing to him so how can we know it’s him?

In fact by the more recent release regarding information relating to anthony_shots, I do wonder if JBC is even being investigated any longer? Maybe it was LE’s way of informing us they’ve moved on?
 
I think JBC is not talking and so they are going to find him out on their own...and they will find him out if he is the one..for me, he is the one, they don't have to say anything, but if they have moved on I don't see any reason to beat around the bush do you? we really don't know anthony shots isn't another connection to him do we?

he wrote on his facebook he wanted to start a youth group and he would pay whatever it takes..
he would just need someone to watch his backdoor.

what is this youth group idea ? and what is the backdoor that needs to be watched?

knowing what he is convicted of...how would you interpret this one for instance?

mOO
 
I think JBC is not talking and so they are going to find him out on their own...and they will find him out if he is the one..for me, he is the one, they don't have to say anything, but if they have moved on I don't see any reason to beat around the bush do you? we really don't know anthony shots isn't another connection to him do we?

he wrote on his facebook he wanted to start a youth group and he would pay whatever it takes..
he would just need someone to watch his backdoor.

what is this youth group idea ? and what is the backdoor that needs to be watched?

knowing what he is convicted of...how would you interpret this one for instance?

mOO

I have read his FB posts and think they are very disturbing, not to mention, suspicious. What comes to mind about wanting to start a youth group is it would give him access to young girls he could then victimize. But I’m not sure what he meant about watching his back door.
 
well in my mind...he is willing to pay whatever it costs to set up something maybe on line..a youth group.. the back door could be the back end...or security type of set up needed..or in prison I think it means like watching your back , making sure no ones coming...apples and oranges..
 
JBC certainly does make for a seemingly ideal POI, but so have others. I have to remind myself that we only have a fraction of the information LE possesses and it's their job to be thorough. I wouldn't want them to jump on any one person based on circumstantial fb posts, etc, but then miss the real killer. Because whoever killed those poor girls is a danger to us all.
Libby's sister, KG, doesn't seem to think so. I keep coming back to WHY isn't she worried? Where does this confidence come from? If the person is still out there, shouldn't all young females around Delphi and their families be worried?
 
Libby's sister, KG, doesn't seem to think so. I keep coming back to WHY isn't she worried? Where does this confidence come from? If the person is still out there, shouldn't all young females around Delphi and their families be worried?

There are unsolved murders and attacks in virtually every community and if there’s not, chances are just that nothing has happened yet. As long as young females everywhere practise safety, no reason we should expect them to live their entire lives in fear. I sure wouldn’t lay money that the killer is lurking around there, just waiting to get caught.

KG says she does not think JBC is the one.

“Investigators said they are 'looking into' the possibility Chadwell 'might' be connected to the Delphi murders. His lawyers have declined to comment on the claims - but Kelsi German thinks nothing will come of them.”
Sister of Delphi murder victim does NOT believe pedophile cops have linked to killings is murderer | Daily Mail Online
 
It seems some dots are being connected and my very humble guess is that there was one person that lured the girls via social media and perhaps another that carried out the crime. One may have rolled on the other. Let's hope so. I think the girls were there to innocently meet a young boy and were completely caught off guard by the creepy bridge guy. I've heard stories from people involved in online dating sites where the photos used online were fraudulent. Fortunately, these people met their prospective date in very public places and were able to leave safely, but it's just so scary. Justice for the families of Libby and Abby!
Quoted bbm
Last month, when the KAK news broke, I was thinking similarly to you but then I have been re-listening to some of the older podcasts and what Robert Ives says in Down the Hill Ep 5 from early 2020 doesn't match up with them being lured there.

Down The Hill: The Delphi Murders - Chapter 5: Signatures on Stitcher

At around 29:40 (this is not a transcript, this is just what I typed out as I listened to it)

Robert Ives: It's unlikely anybody would be there. This was a daylight crime....it appears. Almost certainly a crime during daylight. In an area where people could have come along...and.... I just can't see it as a big master plan....it would be a crazy master plan. I think it's more.... (sighs heavily) a person committed a horrible crime and then they took off.....and nobody, or, if anybody saw them we haven't been able to pinpoint it. You know people were seen coming and going. And there were some witnesses that we may well have seen , and I say we, but someone may have seen this person leaving the crime scene or going to the crime scene but we have never been able to put that information together with enough evidence to show who that person was and that they committed this crime. I do not believe it was a planned crime. That personally, it does not make any sense for me that it was a planned crime because, you couldn't know, unless there is something else out there . You know this...this luring thing, as I've told you and I hope the state police have said this, I don't think there is any evidence they were lured out there. I think they just decided to go for a walk. They were great friends they just thought it's a nice day, let's go walk the trail. I think that's all that happened. And so, for somebody to be there right then, to know they'd be there, I don't believe that. I wouldn't be shocked if it turned out if I was wrong, but I don't believe that someone knew that they would be there...to walk by. "

If the girls were lured there, I think that RI would have been aware of this and wouldn't have been so vocal shutting this theory down.

JMO
 
I look at it this way, they could have been lured online but not to the park..just into the circle..
KAK says himself he would get their addresses..anyone with access to the Tony Shots account could have gotten that address and stalked these girls..

JBC is very comfortable in the outdoors and is probably not intimidated by things like time of day , also it is not hard to imagine him setting up one of his little campsites for his activities..
if he was sleeping out there he knows exactly where to go to be out of view from the bridge and far enough for the sounds to be indistinguishable....if he was camping out there at that time it was close to her house and he may have been there for that very purpose of stalking and waiting to catch them alone.
 
Apropos "vet's office":
I would like to know, where they (have forgotten, whether Libby or Abby) got the new little pet dog the weekend before the murder. Does anybody know it? Is it true at all? Did they leave the new family member alone at home? (Grandma/mum working probably, other family members also.) If they JUST had a little dog indeed and didn't stay home for it, that Monday in Febr 2017 the MHB area must have been important to visit, IMO.

All these, possibly random, places, need to be looked at. If the pet, where did they get it; did they go to Petco or local vet’s to buy food and the “trousseau” for the puppy, was there someone with a cousin who came to visit, perhaps?

Also, I remember that Abby’s grandpa brought her a baseball glove. Did he bring it from home, or did he and Abby buy it locally? Who else was in the store at that time? Who sold it to them?

Same with Libby, if she spent the previous night in another friend’s house, where did they go?

BP said Libby developed the taste for shopping. Meaning, probably not from Amazon like we do now. She was going into stores, I think. Could someone see her there?

The weirdest, strangest people I ever met, people who would harass online, write anonymous letters to public, behave in “what the heck did you think you were doing?” way, oftentimes would initially come across as exceptionally normal. I would not be surprised if there was some unaccounted for, minimal, contact with the killer of such a type.

I also remember BP answering she’d feel sorry for anyone who’d be bold enough to harass the girls. (She may not know, of course; sometimes kid who are outgoing and bold, are shy and insecure inside, but mask it well). But - I think that outwardly Libby was gregarious and had a sharp tongue. She may have run into someone and said something abrupt; the provocation could have been minimal, but for the killer, it felt like a narcissistic injury, coming from a teenage girl. He, the killer, has issues with himself as it is. And his revenge was totally incomparable to the initial altercation.

This scenario- that one of the girls said something brisk to the stranger, or joked, and he thought, ridiculed - I can imagine easier than being catfished, the way I see Libby. She was mature, and for some reason, I can’t imagine her falling for the like of KAK at fourteen. At twelve, maybe, but not at fourteen. The alternative- running into a personality-disordered man and making him angry - I can. I hope people understand, I am not victim blaming by posting it. I just know that world is full of absolutely angry, mean people, who hold on to the perceived slight forever. Sadly. MOO.
 
I am praying for healing for this dear baby.
I have read of killers who seemed to have little discrimination when stalking their victims. The critter believed to be responsible for the Boston Strangler murders told LE that he had no preference in choosing his prey. He said he only wanted what a woman had [I'm paraphrasing].
The man who murdered Polly Klass had previously been incarcerated (at Napa State Hospital IIRC) for the sexual assault of a grown woman.

If we look at it, in essence, they don’t want sex from women. They want life. And this is what is, utterly, broken in these killers. Sex, assault is bad, but there is an underlying biology component, as we see it in animals, in nature. But no animal, unless hungry or protecting its offsprings, would randomly assault and kill other species. Killing for fun, for pleasure, is solely human vice. So ugly.
 
I have to admit I have *no* idea what the numbers actually are. But I'm certain that none of my immediate family, and none of my wife's immediate family, have been genotyped for any reason. I don't know of any of our friends or coworkers who have been typed, though I can't be certain of all of them. Is DNA typing for non-forensic reasons really so common?

OK, maybe you are in the field (e.g., military) where it is not common to genotype relatives. But look at it in this way: you might have relatives, second cousins, who are not even close to you, are into genealogy and have done the genetic studies.

I am an emigrant and never thought I had relatives here. Guess what? Found two, on one line but close enough to me, if I left my DNA at a crime scene, whether typed or not, I could be found via these relatives whom I never saw in my life.

Same applies to you. You can’t call all your cousins and forbid them to do genealogy tests. So even if you have never been typed, but left your DNA at a CS (sorry!) ), all that the Parabon needs is to run yours, unknown, against the database and find relatives.

Of course, there might be complications. For example: the criminal might be the product of egg or sperm donation. Then, maybe, there are relatives, but no established connection on the genealogy tree. It might well be the case. Or, the tree might be wrong; some have many non-paternity events.

Now, about the genetic tests. They were super popular around 2015, when I randomly did mine, more in the context of a FB joke. But that brought me to the site where lots of people posted. There were two groups, one interested in ethnicity (“who am I?”) and the other one, in health, as the tests could be downloaded to Promethease that could tell you all potentially hazardous genes.

And then, people cross-uploaded their DNAs to other ancestry sites, to meet more relatives…

Suffice it to say, if your ancestors are from Western Europe, especially, Britain, they can say what county your ancestors were from.

Now, this is exactly what is undermining our commercial ancestry companies now. The first people to be tested were highly endogamous groups (e.g., Ashkenazi and Finns), and then, people from Western Europe. The first comers.

The companies seemingly did not foresee that our Asians, Indians, African Americans would, too, want to know their roots. And now, people who are of mixed heritage, might get such humiliating responses as: half of their genome is explained up to the ancestral town in Ireland, the other 50% is “India and Pakistan” (thank you, “23 and me”! Luckily, there is WeGene, Asian site, that reads all Caucasian as “British”, but is very good with Asian database).

It is getting better, but if our criminal is a mixture, with less examined genome on maternal side, and he left only a hair, hence, mitoDNA, there may be no match.

Or, if he has Y from a yet-unexplored group (could be Native Americans, could be lots of ethnicities), there, indeed, may be no matches.

I can dwell on it for ages, as I have seen both situations in my family (too rare is bad, too common is worse, a common with a private mutation is bad, DNA not linked to a tree is bad…you name it!).
 
I think JBC is not talking and so they are going to find him out on their own...and they will find him out if he is the one..for me, he is the one, they don't have to say anything, but if they have moved on I don't see any reason to beat around the bush do you? we really don't know anthony shots isn't another connection to him do we?

he wrote on his facebook he wanted to start a youth group and he would pay whatever it takes..
he would just need someone to watch his backdoor.

what is this youth group idea ? and what is the backdoor that needs to be watched?

knowing what he is convicted of...how would you interpret this one for instance?

mOO

Look, if someone comes with prejudice, he or she can extract anything from anyone’s FB, no offense. I like Ancient Greek art, but maybe I am secretly into *advertiser censored*, otherwise why post so many naked statues? Or, do I, as any woman, like jewelry, or do I plan to rob the Smithsonian? Or, I post about certain mental illnesses, to spread the knowledge, maybe I have them? All? Or, I post about MJ because it doesn’t have any effect on me, so I have to read what it does to others. But someone would read and say, a stoner.

From the moment JBCs earlier tattoos were interpreted as those of the girls, I knew we were down a humongous rabbit hole. People wanted him to be BG. Admit he isn’t. BG is live, kicking and unapprehended. MOO.

Consider this: JBC has poor executive function, he is no planner. To grab a neighbor child and assault her (poor kid), even use his dog, then immediately get arrested, to disappear in prison forever. How long does one need to royally mess up with own life?

With BG, we have a person of whom a picture and a video and an audio exists. Maybe DNA. To no avail.

I don’t know his IQ (I suspect, high), but BG can plan! He had good executive function. Even if he has ADD, it is treated, but chances are, there is none; he is simply very organized and a planner.
 
The ISP said they were taking the investigation in a new direction and had that whole religion/Shack presser.
They said everybody would be surprised to see who it was.

That said, I have noticed a very large number of the most upstanding, respected, and powerful people in that town are affiliated with either the same church or same denomination.

I think they left us a clue here.

That presser seemed very specific in it's vagueness. I think they have somebody specific in mind. Somebody not previously mentioned by them. Somebody publicly religious, well respected, and they have been involved in the investigation. They pretty much said so.

This excludes KAK and JBC as the actual killer.

Hope I haven't broken any rules here. I am still learning.

I think it really depends on age. Younger people in Delphi might go to the same church, but they seem to be more supportive of, say, gays, etc.

Within DC’s age group +/- 20 years, the older end of BG’s expected age spectrum, it seems expected to not only believe, but publicly proclaim it, it seems. Take JA who commented on every LE task group meeting starting with a prayer. I don’t know if JA is religious, or merely among his age group, and in Indiana, it is an expected “must”.

Why do I post it? If the killer is Delphi local, you’d surely find him within that “same” church, but it is not a clue. If you listen to DC, he at times would speak about the Shack, and then, about BG having “the voice of the devil”, so, go guess…
 
nah...it was literally a miracle he was caught with a 9 year old girl in his basement..he would have totally gotten away with it..he is prison educated and knows exactly what to do..he would of disposed of her remains and moved on to his next quarry all the while acting like the guy next-door.. he saw this little neighbor girl around and he had to grab her.

maybe they would brought out dogs and he would have said yeah she was here but she left. ( if it ever even went that far)...seriously he was murdering her when they got there...it was a miracle. could he have done it differently? grabbed her in the park? she came straight to his door. He had the privacy of a basement...
he was gonna do his thing...he can plan/ not plan/ he knows to act quickly and clean up. No one was looking..
maybe he would have driven her little body out to Park to be left by a trail...you can't say he didn't plan..

we really don't know if he planned or not. mOO
 
nah...it was literally a miracle he was caught with a 9 year old girl in his basement..he would have totally gotten away with it..he is prison educated and knows exactly what to do..he would of disposed of her remains and moved on to his next quarry all the while acting like the guy next-door.. he saw this little neighbor girl around and he had to grab her.

maybe they would brought out dogs and he would have said yeah she was here but she left. ( if it ever even went that far)...seriously he was murdering her when they got there...it was a miracle. could he have done it differently? grabbed her in the park? she came straight to his door. He had the privacy of a basement...
he was gonna do his thing...he can plan/ not plan/ he knows to act quickly and clean up. No one was looking..
maybe he would have driven her little body out to Park to be left by a trail...you can't say he didn't plan..

we really don't know if he planned or not. mOO

But…with their personalities, neither JBC nor DN, not GK, nor PE would be a “big surprise” to the citizens of Delphi. These guys are exactly not what we expect. Not upstanding citizens. Whoever BG is, he is not in the “lawless” group.
 
I refuse to hang on every word of that press conference...all I hear is that we would be surprised. well just about anyone would be surprised if someone they knew did this horrible crime..I really feel he didn't want people to rule out the next door neighbor or uncle Joe Joe...just because they are a school teacher or church person..

I really never felt they had a particular person in mind..I think maybe your interpretation is a little too literal.

jmOO
 
I think JBC is not talking and so they are going to find him out on their own...and they will find him out if he is the one..for me, he is the one, they don't have to say anything, but if they have moved on I don't see any reason to beat around the bush do you? we really don't know anthony shots isn't another connection to him do we?

he wrote on his facebook he wanted to start a youth group and he would pay whatever it takes..
he would just need someone to watch his backdoor.

what is this youth group idea ? and what is the backdoor that needs to be watched?

knowing what he is convicted of...how would you interpret this one for instance?

mOO
I’m with you all the way, Minazoe!
 
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