TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #2

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Wise_Old_Owl said:
What has become glaringly apparent is this plague of errors that caused this horrific tragedy is -

The HUMAN FACTOR is what failed......................

It was a teacher that propped that door open (I feel for that woman and I pray for her every night) - but it is what it is and she should loose her job.

The SRO that drove right by the shooter while he was still in the parking lot.

The school police chief that did or did not have his radio - he was still the incident commander and told them to stand down.

You can have all the policies, procedures, protocols, laws, barriers, trainings and plans on paper BUT it still comes down to THE PEOPLE on scene - involved in the incident that can make or break a successful outcome.

Schools - especially elementary where the students are still just babies - ARE NOT militarized zones. The people that are trained to work there do not study military tactics or how to survive a terrorist attack (and yes, these shooters are terrorists) so there will always be the element of "incompetence" with that work force. Its not their fault - that's not what they signed up for.

We, as a people, have to do better. For our children - for our future.
Click to expand...

Do we know it was a women teacher?
I'm curious because I wasn't sure what gender yet.

I agree with your post.
 
Dawookie said:
I think he just didn't have it with him for whatever reason which is a huge mistake.

There's pretty much no doubt he gave the orders as he was the on scene commander. Him not having his radio would explain a lot about why he perceived the situation as he did if he wasn't getting info from 911. And that leads to more questions, the first one being would he be the only one to recieve that information and if so why only one person would be getting that info in a situation like this
Click to expand...

I wish we knew where he was located during the active shooter situation.

Onsite or at another school? in his car?
Did he own a police radio? or was NEVER issued one?

I wish we could view body cams and surveillance to sleuth ourselves these details drive me coo-coo.
 
x_files said:
I wish we knew where he was located during the active shooter situation.

Onsite or at another school? in his car?
Did he own a police radio? or was NEVER issued one?

I wish we could view body cams and surveillance to sleuth ourselves these details drive me coo-coo.
Click to expand...
I gotta assume he owned some type of radio

How did the SRO respond to a 911?

I'm not seeing this anywhere but the Daily Mail...

But you never know.
They get the scoop because they pay for stories...
 
Friday Fan said:
Emotions and ego..
"It can't happen here"
Lack of similar real life experience

It's one thing to have high school/middle students who are possibly breaking a law, it's another to have another Adam Lanza on an elementary campus...

I believe this is only the second mass shooting at an elementary school in the US
It's alot of "it can't happen here" mixed with emotions
Click to expand...

Nope - there have been MANY shootings at elementary schools. I've been trying to find an exact number but all the reports lump all the schools together - I do know there are MANY that have happened at elementary schools.

This is just one that I remember well because of age of the boys:
1998
March 24

A school shooting in Jonesboro, Arkansas, kills five​

Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shoot their classmates and teachers in Jonesboro, Arkansas on March 24, 1998. Golden, the younger of the two boys, asked to be excused from his class, pulled a fire alarm and then ran to join Johnson in a wooded area 100 yards away from the school’s gym. As the students streamed out of the building, Johnson and Golden opened fire and killed four students and a teacher. Ten other children were wounded.

A school shooting in Jonesboro, Arkansas, kills five | March 24, 1998 | HISTORY

Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shoot their classmates and teachers in Jonesboro, Arkansas on March 24, 1998. Golden, the younger of the two boys, asked to be excused from his class, pulled a fire alarm and then ran to join Johnson in a wooded area 100 yards away from the school’s...
www.history.com www.history.com
 
Seattle1 said:
5/27/22

CNN created a timeline of events with information provided by McCraw, social media posts and other reporting that offers a look into what came before the shooting:

  • In September 2021, the shooter asked his sister to help him buy a gun and she "flatly refused," McCraw said.
  • The shooter was in a group chat on Instagram and in it, there was a February 28 discussion of the suspect being a "school shooter," McCraw said.
  • On March 1, the shooter had an Instagram chat with several others in which he discussed buying a gun, McCraw said. Two days later, there was another group chat in which someone said, "word on the street" was that the suspect was buying a gun. The shooter replied, "just bought something rn."
  • On March 14, the shooter wrote in an Instagram post, "10 more days." Another user replied, "'are you going to shoot up a school or something?' The shooter replied, 'no and stop asking dumb questions and you'll see,'" McCraw said.
  • On May 17 and May 20, the shooter legally purchased two AR platform rifles at a local federal firearms licensee, said Texas state Sen. John Whitmire, who received a briefing from law enforcement.
  • The shooter also purchased 375 rounds of ammunition on May 18, Whitmire said, citing law enforcement.
  • State Sen. Roland Gutierrez said the purchases were made for the suspect's 18th birthday.
  • Before going to the school and committing a massacre on Tuesday, the shooter sent a series of chilling text messages to a girl he met online, according to screenshots reviewed by CNN and an interview with the girl.
  • The teen girl, who lives in Germany, said she began chatting with the shooter on a social media app earlier this month. The shooter told her that on Monday, he received a package of ammunition, she said.
  • On Tuesday morning, Ramos called her and told her he loved her, she said.
  • He complained about his grandmother being on the phone with AT&T about "my phone."
  • "It's annoying," he texted.
  • Six minutes later, at 11:21 a.m. local time, he texted: "I just shot my grandma in her head."
  • Seconds later, he said, "Ima go shoot up a(n) elementary school rn (right now)."
Read a minute-by-minute breakdown into the attack — and how authorities responded to it here.
Click to expand...
My god.
 
Wise_Old_Owl said:
Nope - there have been MANY shootings at elementary schools. I've been trying to find an exact number but all the reports lump all the schools together - I do know there are MANY that have happened at elementary schools.

This is just one that I remember well because of age of the boys:
1998
March 24

A school shooting in Jonesboro, Arkansas, kills five​

Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shoot their classmates and teachers in Jonesboro, Arkansas on March 24, 1998. Golden, the younger of the two boys, asked to be excused from his class, pulled a fire alarm and then ran to join Johnson in a wooded area 100 yards away from the school’s gym. As the students streamed out of the building, Johnson and Golden opened fire and killed four students and a teacher. Ten other children were wounded.

A school shooting in Jonesboro, Arkansas, kills five | March 24, 1998 | HISTORY

Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shoot their classmates and teachers in Jonesboro, Arkansas on March 24, 1998. Golden, the younger of the two boys, asked to be excused from his class, pulled a fire alarm and then ran to join Johnson in a wooded area 100 yards away from the school’s...
www.history.com www.history.com
Click to expand...
Jonesboro was a Middle School

1998 Westside Middle School shooting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Friday Fan said:
I gotta assume he owned some type of radio

How did the SRO respond to a 911?

I'm not seeing this anywhere but the Daily Mail...

But you never know.
They get the scoop because they pay for stories...
Click to expand...

Since journalists most likely aren't working today we'll have to wait to find out. These are important details though.
Ultimately the SR the gunman is to blame, we can blame a teacher for leaving a door propped open but that seems to be a human error which is forgivable just was the worst timing ever.
Who expects in a quiet small town a mass shooter? I know all schools should expect it by now though.
But blame ultimately falls on the shooter.
I do feel other factors lead up to this exact moment that could have prevented all of it, but it at this point is too late.
It's the moment a child is born if he has loving parents, schools who intervene with bullies, etc...

But I digress, yes why didn't he have his radio on him? was he even onsite or did he drive off? why wasn't an SRO officer posted at each school? At least one per school?
 
x_files said:
Do we know it was a women teacher?
I'm curious because I wasn't sure what gender yet.

I agree with your post.
Click to expand...
I believe LE has referred to this teacher as a "she" - severa times. I also believe they have this on camera - most schools today have cameras trained on outside doors and I think that is the case here. LE knows she emerged and went to a car in the parking lot, she re-emerged, etc.\
 
Wise_Old_Owl said:
Nope - there have been MANY shootings at elementary schools. I've been trying to find an exact number but all the reports lump all the schools together - I do know there are MANY that have happened at elementary schools.

This is just one that I remember well because of age of the boys:
1998
March 24

A school shooting in Jonesboro, Arkansas, kills five​

Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shoot their classmates and teachers in Jonesboro, Arkansas on March 24, 1998. Golden, the younger of the two boys, asked to be excused from his class, pulled a fire alarm and then ran to join Johnson in a wooded area 100 yards away from the school’s gym. As the students streamed out of the building, Johnson and Golden opened fire and killed four students and a teacher. Ten other children were wounded.

A school shooting in Jonesboro, Arkansas, kills five | March 24, 1998 | HISTORY

Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shoot their classmates and teachers in Jonesboro, Arkansas on March 24, 1998. Golden, the younger of the two boys, asked to be excused from his class, pulled a fire alarm and then ran to join Johnson in a wooded area 100 yards away from the school’s...
www.history.com www.history.com
Click to expand...

Perhaps some articles are making a distinction between elementary and middle schools?
 
11:27 a.m. - A Robb Elementary teacher props open the school's west-facing exterior door.

11:31 a.m. - A Uvalde ISD officer who is not on campus hears the 911 call about a shooting near the school and immediately drives to the area. The ISD officer approaches a person he believes to be the suspect but is in fact a teacher at the school. In doing so, the ISD officer drives past Ramos, who is crouching behind parked vehicles.

abc11.com

Uvalde school shooting timeline: How deadly school shooting unfolded

New information has come to light about how the gunman prepared months in advance, and moment by moment, what occurred during the horrifying massacre.
abc11.com abc11.com

…

Not sure if the teacher in the lot is the same one that propped open the door.

Jmo
 
x_files said:
I wish we knew where he was located during the active shooter situation.

Onsite or at another school? in his car?
Did he own a police radio? or was NEVER issued one?

I wish we could view body cams and surveillance to sleuth ourselves these details drive me coo-coo.
Click to expand...
He should have been onsite plain and simple.

As the chief, he would have had a radio no doubt. If he didn't have it, that's a colossal screw up.
 
Wise_Old_Owl said:
What has become glaringly apparent is this plague of errors that caused this horrific tragedy is -

The HUMAN FACTOR is what failed......................

It was a teacher that propped that door open (I feel for that woman and I pray for her every night) - but it is what it is and she should loose her job.

The SRO that drove right by the shooter while he was still in the parking lot.

The school police chief that did or did not have his radio - he was still the incident commander and told them to stand down.

You can have all the policies, procedures, protocols, laws, barriers, trainings and plans on paper BUT it still comes down to THE PEOPLE on scene - involved in the incident that can make or break a successful outcome.

Schools - especially elementary where the students are still just babies - ARE NOT militarized zones. The people that are trained to work there do not study military tactics or how to survive a terrorist attack (and yes, these shooters are terrorists) so there will always be the element of "incompetence" with that work force. Its not their fault - that's not what they signed up for.

We, as a people, have to do better. For our children - for our future.
Click to expand...
Don’t forget about the killer. He’s the one that caused this tragedy.

I don’t know if people should lose their livelihoods. I’m glad it’s not up to me. It’s a tragedy for everyone involved.
 
The US Justice Department will investigate the police response to the mass shooting at a school in Uvalde, Texas which killed 19 children and two teachers.
Public anger is growing after it emerged that officers waited in the hallway as children trapped with the shooter made desperate 911 calls.
US President Joe Biden is in Uvalde to meet families devastated by the killings.
He will also meet survivors.

www.bbc.co.uk

Uvalde: US to review police response to Texas school shooting

The Justice Department will investigate amid criticism that police waited to tackle the shooter.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Did the all officers on duty have radios to communicate with dispatch and other officers? Did they have hard body armor? What kind of weaponry did they have? What is the plan when there is a major incident requiring a bigger police presence? Do they have a SWAT team? What's the process for calling them? How many people were working in dispatch?
Did the incident move from an active shooter incident to one of containment (perhaps mistakenly)?
 
TGIRecovered said:
MOO Don’t forget the first officers on scene who saw a teacher at the door and went toward them, thinking they could be the shooter. The gunman was hiding in the parking lot. He got in through the back door 2 or 3 minutes AFTER the officers arrived at the back door. Why didn’t the officers shut the door? MOO
Click to expand...
I don't think the citing happened at the door. The RSO unknowingly drove by the shooter that was hunkering down behind parked cars and the person the officer approached was a teacher. Seems to me that by the time responding police officers approached the propped open door, the shooter was already inside the school when SR shot at them through the door -- causing grazing wounds to two of the officers.
 
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