TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #2

[MrsWatson]

Gunman at a Texas elementary school kills 19 students and two adults before being fatally shot, officials say | CNN

An 18-year-old gunman on Tuesday fatally shot 19 children and two adults at a Texas elementary school before he was killed by law enforcement officers, officials said.

us.cnn.com

A suspect is in custody after a shooting incident at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, left at least two dead and injured 14 people, including students, authorities said.


Thread #1

PLEASE CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION HERE WHILE RESPECTING THE VICTIMS, THEIR FAMILIES, THE TERMS OF SERVICE, and YOUR FELLOW WS MEMBERS.

 

[CocoChanel]

ADMIN NOTE:
In the face of such unspeakable tragedy, Websleuths tries to be a place where members can come to get factual information while working through the emotions that are brought forth by this type of horrific news. Websleuths has long stated that generalized debate about society’s ills does not belong here because it cannot be solved through discussion on a true crime forum. If there was a possibility that point/counterpoint arguments on our forum would prevent the next tragedy, Websleuths would allow it. Those critical discussions should absolutely take place, but not here. Please do not debate guns, politics, mental illness, inherent evil, or other generalized topics that can only lead to conflict on this thread. Thank you for respecting Websleuths guidelines on this. May love and light lead the way in this dark time.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Stick to discussing the specifics of THIS case. This thread is not the place for general gun control discussion or debate.

Do not introduce the emotional, political, hot-button topic of gun control in general. It leads nowhere other than to ultimately derail the thread.

Tricia kept gun control discussion off Websleuths for a long time and even tried opening a gun control debate thread. Six month later, six threads later, the discussion was stopped because as usual it led to bickering among members. Gun control legislation is never going to be resolved through discussion at Websleuths.

The law right now is what the law is. Members may discuss those laws as they relate to this case specifically (i.e. what are the current laws that relate to this case, to the killer, how was he able to ...). Other posts and opinions that attempt to take this thread into the future political realm of what should or should not be will be removed and members may experience a temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges.

If you value your participation in this thread, please do not introduce general gun control debate.

Thank you.

 

[Seattle1]

Ken Dilanian
@KenDilanianNBC

New: Border Patrol tactical agents who breached the classroom and killed the shooter acted on their own initiative after mounting frustration, sources tell
@JuliaEAinsley

3:03 PM · May 27, 2022·

__________________
In thread #1, I provided CNN analyst comment how other officers can decide to ignore or overrule the "incident commander" and it appears this is exactly what the border patrol decided to do:

But if officers on the scene of an incident come to believe the "incident commander" is making the wrong calls, they can ignore or overrule his decisions, Barksdale said. "And you face him later on and... deal with it," he added.

TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022

I’m trying really hard to stand down and wait for the story. I am so stunned by this. I’m from the North and always thought of Texas as being the one place where there were so many good guys with guns that they would be able to overtake the bad guys. Now this… I live in Texas, there are tons of...

www.websleuths.com

 

[branmuffin]

I'm not sure if this has already been posted but there is an update to the original report of two teenagers arrested in 2018 for conspiracy to commit murder. It has been verified that neither of the two teenagers in the original 2018 report are Salvador Ramos.

Two teens arrested in 'mass casualty' plot in 2018 targeting a Uvalde middle school

One of the students had numerous writings and drawings which depicted weapons capable of causing mass destruction. He wrote about being "God-like" and killing police and other persons.

www.kens5.com

 

[Seattle1]

Gunman emerged from classroom closet and began shooting when Border Patrol agents entered room, source says​

May 27 Texas school massacre news

Nineteen children and two teachers were killed in a shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday, the Texas Department for Public Safety said. Follow here for the latest news updates.

www.cnn.com

5/27/22
From CNN's Priscilla Alvarez

The 18-year-old man who killed 21 people in Uvalde, Texas, earlier this week came out of a classroom closet and began firing when US Border Patrol agents entered the room, a source familiar with the situation told CNN.

Members of a specialized Border Patrol unit had entered the classroom, with one holding a shield followed by at least two others who engaged the shooter, according to a US Customs and Border Protection official.

The gunman is believed to have waited for the agents to enter the room, then kicked open the closet door and began shooting, the source said.
The agents had used a key to get into the classroom, opening the door while standing off to the side since the gunman had been shooting through the door, the source said.

The Washington Post first reported the detail on the gunman emerging from the classroom closet.

 

[Seattle1]

5/27/22

CNN created a timeline of events with information provided by McCraw, social media posts and other reporting that offers a look into what came before the shooting:

• In September 2021, the shooter asked his sister to help him buy a gun and she "flatly refused," McCraw said.
• The shooter was in a group chat on Instagram and in it, there was a February 28 discussion of the suspect being a "school shooter," McCraw said.
• On March 1, the shooter had an Instagram chat with several others in which he discussed buying a gun, McCraw said. Two days later, there was another group chat in which someone said, "word on the street" was that the suspect was buying a gun. The shooter replied, "just bought something rn."
• On March 14, the shooter wrote in an Instagram post, "10 more days." Another user replied, "'are you going to shoot up a school or something?' The shooter replied, 'no and stop asking dumb questions and you'll see,'" McCraw said.
• On May 17 and May 20, the shooter legally purchased two AR platform rifles at a local federal firearms licensee, said Texas state Sen. John Whitmire, who received a briefing from law enforcement.
• The shooter also purchased 375 rounds of ammunition on May 18, Whitmire said, citing law enforcement.
• State Sen. Roland Gutierrez said the purchases were made for the suspect's 18th birthday.
• Before going to the school and committing a massacre on Tuesday, the shooter sent a series of chilling text messages to a girl he met online, according to screenshots reviewed by CNN and an interview with the girl.
• The teen girl, who lives in Germany, said she began chatting with the shooter on a social media app earlier this month. The shooter told her that on Monday, he received a package of ammunition, she said.
• On Tuesday morning, Ramos called her and told her he loved her, she said.
• He complained about his grandmother being on the phone with AT&T about "my phone."
• "It's annoying," he texted.
• Six minutes later, at 11:21 a.m. local time, he texted: "I just shot my grandma in her head."
• Seconds later, he said, "Ima go shoot up a(n) elementary school rn (right now)."

Read a minute-by-minute breakdown into the attack — and how authorities responded to it here.

 

[RANCH]

Gunman emerged from classroom closet and began shooting when Border Patrol agents entered room, source says​

May 27 Texas school massacre news

Nineteen children and two teachers were killed in a shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday, the Texas Department for Public Safety said. Follow here for the latest news updates.

www.cnn.com

5/27/22
From CNN's Priscilla Alvarez

The 18-year-old man who killed 21 people in Uvalde, Texas, earlier this week came out of a classroom closet and began firing when US Border Patrol agents entered the room, a source familiar with the situation told CNN.

Members of a specialized Border Patrol unit had entered the classroom, with one holding a shield followed by at least two others who engaged the shooter, according to a US Customs and Border Protection official.

The gunman is believed to have waited for the agents to enter the room, then kicked open the closet door and began shooting, the source said.
The agents had used a key to get into the classroom, opening the door while standing off to the side since the gunman had been shooting through the door, the source said.

The Washington Post first reported the detail on the gunman emerging from the classroom closet.

The shooter was firing from the closet and through the classroom door? Or he was shooting through the classroom door, retreated into the closet and then came out shooting when LE entered?

 

[steeltowngirl]

@Dotta - It is too late for me to reply to your question on last thread, about the large amount of ammo bought maybe should have raised a red flag.

This happened a few years ago.
Oasis Outback sold more than 10,000 rounds of ammunition on the same day to an Eagle Pass businessman who gave them to Mexican cartel operatives, court records show.

“That’s very significant, and it’s close to the border so you know where it’s going,” said Davy Aguilera, a retired agent with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms who previously led the ATF office in San Antonio. “It’s obviously going to a bad guy to sell, transport or to use it. The general public is not going to buy that much.”

Oasis Outback wasn’t accused of violating any laws governing the sale of ammunition.

In fact, there are few laws restricting the ammo trade.

In most states, there is nothing illegal about buying or selling large quantities of civilian-use ammunition to just about any adult. Bullets are a commodity almost as unregulated as milk or bread, with no record keeping requirement, limit on volume per individual or disqualifying criminal history for buyers — unlike some rules governing gun sales.

Uvalde killer's gun store at center of ammo smuggling case

Oasis Outback sold more than 10,000 rounds of ammunition in one day to an Eagle Pass...

www.expressnews.com

 

[Seattle1]

NYTimes reporter's tweet thread is worth a read:

Mike Baker
@ByMikeBaker

I have spent the past few days researching the training of Uvalde officers, including the tactics they were expected to use to halt school shooters. The documents are jarring. Here’s a thread of our findings so far. 1/9


6:15 PM · May 27, 2022·T

 

[branmuffin]

NYTimes reporter's tweet thread is worth a read:

Mike Baker
@ByMikeBaker

I have spent the past few days researching the training of Uvalde officers, including the tactics they were expected to use to halt school shooters. The documents are jarring. Here’s a thread of our findings so far. 1/9


6:15 PM · May 27, 2022·T

Wow.

 

[LolaAngelina]

NYTimes reporter's tweet thread is worth a read:

Mike Baker
@ByMikeBaker

I have spent the past few days researching the training of Uvalde officers, including the tactics they were expected to use to halt school shooters. The documents are jarring. Here’s a thread of our findings so far. 1/9


6:15 PM · May 27, 2022·T

The training is clear: Time is of the essence. The “first priority is to move in and confront the attacker”

“A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field”

 

[NanZDrew]

On a previous thread some teachers were discussing feeling afraid of handling a firearm. I, too, work in the public school system. I qualified for a concealed handgun license. I am proficient shooting a handgun, shotgun, and rifle. Mainly I kill feral hogs that tear everything up. That said, I have concerns about being locked and loaded in the classroom. My concern would be keeping the gun in a secure enough location that students would not be able to get their hands on it. I feel the chances of a student getting the gun could be greater than the chances of encountering a shooter. Keep in mind that a huge number of the school shootings are performed by students inside a school that they are supposed to be in. If you have the gun secure enough that students cannot get to it, would you be able to get the fun in time for it to help you?

 

[RANCH]

On a previous thread some teachers were discussing feeling afraid of handling a firearm. I, too, work in the public school system. I qualified for a concealed handgun license. I am proficient shooting a handgun, shotgun, and rifle. Mainly I kill feral hogs that tear everything up. That said, I have concerns about being locked and loaded in the classroom. My concern would be keeping the gun in a secure enough location that students would not be able to get their hands on it. I feel the chances of a student getting the gun could be greater than the chances of encountering a shooter. Keep in mind that a huge number of the school shootings are performed by students inside a school that they are supposed to be in. If you have the gun secure enough that students cannot get to it, would you be able to get the fun in time for it to help you?

Carrying concealed on your person would be a good solution. JMO.

 

[mister happy]

NYTimes reporter's tweet thread is worth a read:

Mike Baker
@ByMikeBaker

I have spent the past few days researching the training of Uvalde officers, including the tactics they were expected to use to halt school shooters. The documents are jarring. Here’s a thread of our findings so far. 1/9


6:15 PM · May 27, 2022·T

Dang. The police response was an epic fail !!! Heads will roll.

 

[Seattle1]

5/26/22 -- Families Of Texas School Shooting Victims Speak On Their Tragic Loss​

Beautiful stories of the victims and how their families want them to be remembered.

 

[Seattle1]

Uvalde High School Senior describes what Salvador Ramos was like before the mass shooting​

Ivan, a former classmate of the shooter wants the world to know the truth about the shooter -- confirming what most of us already know -- typical mass shooter profile-- right down to torturing animals.

 

[Seattle1]

Mother of a teenage gunman who shot and killed 21 people speaks out -- 5/27/22​

The mother of a teenage gunman who shot and killed 21 people at a Texas elementary school is apologizing on behalf of her son and begging victims to forgive her.

 

[Seattle1]

'I want the blame to stop': Uvalde teacher speaks about gunman shooting into their classroom--5/27/22​

The story of Room 102.

 

[Seattle1]

Neighbor: Texas shooter was bullied, fought with grandmother. (Father of Robb Elementary's Principal speaks)​