Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

[SLouTh]

JMO - I wonder why FFC said at the Inquest that she took three photos?

William Tyrrell: how new evidence revived the case and triggered a fresh search effort

There is renewed hope for closure in one of Australia’s most notorious missing persons cases – and the country is transfixed

www.theguardian.com

"At 9.37am, William’s foster mother took three photos of him appearing “spider manned out”, she would later tell the coronial inquest, with the pictures becoming the key image associated with public awareness campaigns pleading for members of the public to come forward with information."

Yes good point Couldbe.... why not tell the inquest she took a "series of photos" .... the only thing I can think of is that sooooo much info was suppressed in the inquest, especially in the early days of the inquest, that maybe the media was only allowed to report 3 photos.....????

It certainly makes FM look untruthful when the five photos were released, as she repeated the same "three photos" story in subsequent interviews ....IMO

An inquest is definitely supposed to be about the "truth" ....

 

[SLouTh]

I think anything is a possibility.

In William's case, I totally agree Warsh The entire case seems to defy all logic, and yes anything is possible!!!

 

[Mauig’ma]

I thought I would check the time difference between each individual photo ....

7:37:15 and 9:35:05 --- Diff = 1:57:50

7:37:29 and 9:35:19 --- Diff = 1:57:50

7:37:38 and 9:35:28 --- Diff = 1:57:50

7:39:39 and 9:37:29 --- Diff = 1:57:50

7:39:54 and 9:37:44 --- Diff = 1:57:50


Not quite 2 hours, but it is consistent across all of the photos.

(This is the calculator used Time calculator )


William Tyrrell: New photos released to five years after little boy disappeared
Probe ordered into William Tyrrell’s last photograph

This is maybe nothing. But the way I see the times of 9:37 vs. 7:39 Is it possible the ffc did indeed change the time. But not for the Bali reason. It’s like she typed in the numbers backwards and that’s where the discrepancy comes from? The 2 seconds I mean. I thought of this way back when. But now since we’re back on the discussion I thought I’d mention it. Tell me what everyone thinks. I’m curious if it’s just me or someone else can see what I think may have happened. Idk but I can’t shake the feeling. Imo moo

 

[Couldbe]

Definitely better image quality with printed photographs in 2014 with a digital / SLR camera than with most phones...
Digital images looked great until you tried to print them ... IMO
A "photobook" would have definitely benefited by use of a camera, over a phone back then .... Pretty sure "Snapfish" Photobooks were really popular back then .... I'm not convinced about FM Scrapbooking, unless someone has a link?
But JMO

JMO - The image quality of the photos as released by the Coroner appear quite grainy: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...5ac6b77df80787e601878974b826c#&gid=null&pid=1
New photos of William Tyrrell released five years after disappearance (Edited to include additional link).

Would there be a particular reason for that?
I have had a grainy result when I used my camera to take a photograph of a photograph which was under glass.

 

[SLouTh]

The image quality of the photos as released by the Coroner appear quite grainy:

Agree CB ..... wonder what format they were released in by the Coroner???..... imo

 

[Tessi V]

Yes good point Couldbe.... why not tell the inquest she took a "series of photos" .... the only thing I can think of is that sooooo much info was suppressed in the inquest, especially in the early days of the inquest, that maybe the media was only allowed to report 3 photos.....????

It certainly makes FM look untruthful when the five photos were released, as she repeated the same "three photos" story in subsequent interviews ....IMO

An inquest is definitely supposed to be about the "truth" ....

In this interview from 2015 she stated that she took three photos.

IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure

The parents of missing toddler William Tyrrell have spoken for the first time about their son’s disap...

www.9news.com.au

 

[Couldbe]

In this interview from 2015 she stated that she took three photos.

IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure

The parents of missing toddler William Tyrrell have spoken for the first time about their son’s disap...

www.9news.com.au

JMO – LE had confiscated FFC’s camera and during that Interview she thought that she had only ‘created’ 3 photos. It is my opinion only that those photos were ‘created’ on her camera by downloading them from another ‘source’ (maybe from a sim card). Because early on in the case the Fosters had been cleared of any involvement, this relevance of her memory of ‘taking 3 photos’ was not considered to be important …….. until more recently! LE have sought to have all aspects of the metadata examined by Experts, and may have discovered the photos had come from another source.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

This is maybe nothing. But the way I see the times of 9:37 vs. 7:39 Is it possible the ffc did indeed change the time. But not for the Bali reason. It’s like she typed in the numbers backwards and that’s where the discrepancy comes from? The 2 seconds I mean. I thought of this way back when. But now since we’re back on the discussion I thought I’d mention it. Tell me what everyone thinks. I’m curious if it’s just me or someone else can see what I think may have happened. Idk but I can’t shake the feeling. Imo moo

When I first saw the the times my thoughts were the same, same numbers backwards. But now I've seen the subsequent times of the other pics which don't do the same thing. So I don't know anymore. Actually I feel that way about this whole case. I just don't know. So many reasons for and against going down different theory paths

 

[k-mac]

JMO – LE had confiscated FFC’s camera and during that Interview she thought that she had only ‘created’ 3 photos. It is my opinion only that those photos were ‘created’ on her camera by downloading them from another ‘source’ (maybe from a sim card). Because early on in the case the Fosters had been cleared of any involvement, this relevance of her memory of ‘taking 3 photos’ was not considered to be important …….. until more recently! LE have sought to have all aspects of the metadata examined by Experts, and may have discovered the photos had come from another source.

The problem with them is....although mostly little things....every single thing said and done....has elements of wrong...falsehoods and errors by the fosters.. sleuthers have to add a reasoning of well maybe this happened because?? of this?? or maybe?? she said that because?? of this??......one needs to add a large dollop of good faith to each and every one of those things to believe them.


Its a lot.

Under the circumstances

 

[Couldbe]

The problem with them is....although mostly little things....every single thing said and done....has elements of wrong...falsehoods and errors by the fosters.. sleuthers have to add a reasoning of well maybe this happened because?? of this?? or maybe?? she said that because?? of this??......one needs to add a large dollop of good faith to each and every one of those things to believe them.


Its a lot.

Under the circumstances

JMO - In pondering on what the 'giving false information to the NSWCC' charge relates to, could be any number of pieces of information FFC has provided. If false information relates to William's case, there are quite a few pieces of information, the validity of which sleuthers have queried. Maybe there is only one point / or maybe there are a number of queried points that have been 'falsehoods' that accumulate to provide proof which will lead to FFC being named as 'a Suspect'.

 

[SouthAussie]

There are two posts here, from our previous discussion about the photos, that might be useful.


"10 News First understands the foster mother told police she had never entered the correct time in the digital camera, which is why there is a two hour discrepancy not just on that photo, but all the photos taken on that camera prior to that day."
WS thread 52 post 1,613

" ..... the camera doesn't say Created/Corrected neither does the EXIF data - the REPORT says that.

The report, obtained by The Australian, was generated by X-Ways forensic software. It reveals the image is a .jpg created on a digital camera, and it says: “Created: 12/09/2014 07:39:54. Corrected time: 12/09/2014 09:37:44.”
WS thread 52 post 1,652


In other words, when X-Ways uploaded the photos, their software corrected the date to Aussie time.

imo

 

[SouthAussie]

I have had a grainy result when I used my camera to take a photograph of a photograph which was under glass.

I imagine the photos have a grainy appearance because they come from the X-Ways report.

X-Ways have evidently placed the "created ... corrected" time tag onto the front of each photo, as that tag does not appear on photos when they are printed.
Likely a reproduction of a reproduction, and not printed on glossy photo paper but on regular paper (where pixelation can happen).

imo

 

[Couldbe]

As an experiment, I have just downloaded a photo taken 3 years ago ...... from my laptop to my camera; the 'Properties' metadata shows that the photo was created on today's date and showing the time of down-loading here in Australia.
I have not investigated the metadata any further ...... to detect what other details could be revealed.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think photos probably have to be uploaded to special software that can fully analyse them. In order to understand the process of how they obtained the data and the (probable imo) time clarification.


"Digital image forensics is performed on local machines and can be used in both open and closed source investigations."

"It’s a highly sophisticated field of investigation which requires several software applications and specialist training."

"An investigator’s aim is to uncover the source image."

A quick guide to digital image forensics | CameraForensics

In this blog, learn more about the methods, techniques, and tools used in image analysis for legal investigations.

www.cameraforensics.com

This is the software that was used for the initial investigation into the photos.

X-Ways Forensics: Integrated Computer Forensics Software

X-Ways Forensics: Integrated Computer Forensics Software

www.x-ways.net

imo

 

[seekingjustice**]

I'm curious about what other people's theory is in relation to why the FFC may have changed the metadata on the pictures. My thought would be that she has told her story to the Police about sitting outside on the decking and taking photos at 9.37am to back up her story about William only being missing for approx. 5 minutes before she noticed. The Police would have wanted to see the photos so FFC would need to change the time to match her statement.

Personally, I'm not convinced that she did and until I read an official outcome on whether the pictures were altered, I'll likely remain on the fence.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

I'm curious about what other people's theory is in relation to why the FFC may have changed the metadata on the pictures. My thought would be that she has told her story to the Police about sitting outside on the decking and taking photos at 9.37am to back up her story about William only being missing for approx. 5 minutes before she noticed. The Police would have wanted to see the photos so FFC would need to change the time to match her statement.

Personally, I'm not convinced that she did and until I read an official outcome on whether the pictures were altered, I'll likely remain on the fence.

The only reason I think photo data would be tampered with, would be IMO if WT disappearance was a premeditated and planned event. I don't think doing that is something someone would come up with on the fly when their child has genuinely gone missing.

 

[Megnut]

Wm's tootsies are pretty sparkly for a child who'd been up for hours, played all kinds of roaring, crashed his bike in the garden.

Just my opinion and observation
.

 

[JBowie]

As an experiment, I have just downloaded a photo taken 3 years ago ...... from my laptop to my camera; the 'Properties' metadata shows that the photo was created on today's date and showing the time of down-loading here in Australia.
I have not investigated the metadata any further ...... to detect what other details could be revealed.

I take it that you really do mean from laptop to camera and not the other way around?

Can't talk for Mac, but when a jpg file is created on a Windows PC, the Windows file system will mark the file's "properties" as being created at the time and date that event occurred.

If the image file was created on a camera, the EXIF data attached to the JPG file should contain the time and date written by the camera that created the image.

Out of interest, I used a few online EXIF viewers (links below) to examine a photo taken by me on my phone camera on June 7 and subsequently downloaded to my PC. Those viewers show the date and time created as 2010:01:18 22:01:41.

Now my phone is showing the correct current time and date, so I have no idea where that 2010 time and date came from. It seems my phone camera has a bug when it comes to EXIF time stamping.

(Windows file system shows the JPG file as being created on Wednesday, ‎8 ‎June ‎2022, ‏‎10:29:15 AM ... which is the correct time and date that I download the image from my camera to my PC.)

Online exif data viewer

This online metadata viewer will show you all hidden metadata info of audio, video, document, ebook & image files.

www.metadata2go.com

https://exifdata.com/exif.php

View Exif data online, remove Exif online

Exif viewer, website for checking and removing Exif data from a picture without downloading any software

www.verexif.com

 

[Couldbe]

JMO - Could it be that something had indeed happened to William before or around 7.30 am that morning, which was the time that FFC said that she had seen the two cars parked across the road (opposite FFGM’s house)?

Those photos may have existed from a previous visit, and have then been downloaded in order to be used as ‘proof of life’, and a story about William’s disappearance was then concocted around those photos.

The MFC’s vehicle/Mobile has been tracked by LE and Mobile phone records have shown that William’s foster father left his mother-in-law’s home in Kendall at 9.30am on Friday, September 12, 2014. https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...d/news-story/6983c0a44392f8599514e4b5c8a56f04

In FFGM’s walkthrough, she said that the MFC had left the house by 8 am and wasn’t there for breakfast. William Tyrrell foster father quizzed over mystery phone

FFGM also said that she didn’t know who slept with who in the bedrooms.


JMO, but maybe the MFC made two trips early that morning …. And that is why she is confused.

 

[sleepinoz]

JMO - Could it be that something had indeed happened to William before or around 7.30 am that morning, which was the time that FFC said that she had seen the two cars parked across the road (opposite FFGM’s house)?

Those photos may have existed from a previous visit, and have then been downloaded in order to be used as ‘proof of life’, and a story about William’s disappearance was then concocted around those photos.

The MFC’s vehicle/Mobile has been tracked by LE and Mobile phone records have shown that William’s foster father left his mother-in-law’s home in Kendall at 9.30am on Friday, September 12, 2014. https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...d/news-story/6983c0a44392f8599514e4b5c8a56f04

In FFGM’s walkthrough, she said that the MFC had left the house by 8 am and wasn’t there for breakfast. William Tyrrell foster father quizzed over mystery phone

FFGM also said that she didn’t know who slept with who in the bedrooms.


JMO, but maybe the MFC made two trips early that morning …. And that is why she is confused.

BBM - If those photo's existed from a previous visit, they would have to show that the clothes they were wearing, items the kids were playing with etc., were present at the time. I imagine that their clothes etc would have been examined by the Police. Even so, you would think that the Police would notice if FGM and daughter were wearing different clothing when they arrived.

How could that be explained if even one item was missing?