Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #148

[TL4S]

In order to appear to be local and easily fit references to places and people into the conversation. Showing a connection to friends of friends of friends. He knows what his victims are talking about when they name landmarks, schools, and local events.
All a part of looking harmless and gaining trust, to eventually get a picture or video.
Catfishers typically make up lots of excuses as to why they can't meet someone in person, it's the victim that is usually asking to meet face to face.
There's been no reliable evidence that KK ever meet one of his victims in person. I'm of the opinion that KK wanted to remain anonymous and continue collecting *advertiser censored*.

All very good points as to why someone catfishing might stay local. But, lots of catfishers do not stay local, too. They don't need to limit themselves just to solicit nude images.

Imo, since the ISP's a_shots ask included information regarding exchanging addresses and requesting meetups, I'm under the assumption that in this case, the user of a_shots was indeed participating in those activities, and doing so locally. That, imo, opens the door to stalking, attempting to have sex with minors, and a whole host of other sexually motivated crimes beyond CSAM sharing. If KAK did indeed want to stay anonymous, then someone else using the account apparently had other plans.Jmo.

 

[FromGermany1]

….One Delphi group on Facebook has 24,000 members; another on Reddit has 30,000. Countless smaller groups exist boasting thousands of members each….”

I wonder, if BG - the killer himself - has an advantage of being discussed by so many people since many years other than making him feel proud and important?? Is it possible to benefit financially in any conceivable way (detour)?
Unfortunately, I don't know anything about earning money online.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Journalists have been jailed for contempt of court over refusing to name their sources. Vetting your sources and keeping them confidential when asked are fundamental to the practice of journalism.

That's probably because they didn't have any?

 

[LeBlack]

 

[JnRyan]

Are there pictures of Libby that day, at the trail? If not, how do we know her attire/hair?

I don't know. All I know is the comments I read.

 

[sandy_80]

I'm unsure of your intent....do you mean to suggest that we, the public, should be able to see and hear the entirety of the 43-second video from Libby's phone?
So that we can figure out who killed them due to the "breadcrumbs" they left in the video?
Because it's your opinion that LE has not paid full attention to what they see and hear on that tape?

If that is what you meant, I certainly would disagree.

For one thing, if those were your daughters, would you want a world full of strangers watching as they are attacked?

For another, LE has fine-tooth combed that video for YEARS. What are we, the public, going to figure out that they haven't yet?

Unless you think someone would recognize the killer. If that's the case I could see LE having selectively shown it in private just to very local people or someone who otherwise may have a potential knowledge of the murderer.

But that's not you nor me nor anyone else who has nothing personally to do with this case.

Jmo

no...i didnt mean listening to the victims in a literal sense
and no..the evidence will not lead to their killer ..however i believe there is more than enough to exclude and to point towards a clear criminal profile ..which we never had here

 

[sandy_80]

In what way have investigators not "listened" to the girls? I assure you they're the ones listening the most as the see every bit of forensic evidence and hear/ read every tip that comes in. In what way can the public ever know more than the investigators of an on-going murders investigation? For clarity...I mean the facts of physical evidence, interviews conducted and the combined educated/seasoned work of techs, field teams and researchers.

again.. i didnt mean a literal sense
from the beginning .. the investigators were prejudiced and that has led to many confusion and dead ends.. still does
i see no logic used in this case..and i can sense no criminal psychology going on
the recent mess just reinforces that.. being at the mercy of a master troll for one thing
time will tell if i am right or wrong

 

[IQuestion]

again.. i didnt mean a literal sense
from the beginning .. the investigators were prejudiced and that has led to many confusion and dead ends.. still does
i see no logic used in this case..and i can sense no criminal psychology going on
the recent mess just reinforces that.. being at the mercy of a master troll for one thing
time will tell if i am right or wrong

bbm above for emphasis Oh SANDY-80....B-I-N-G-O ! I so agree. (But you knew I would, eventually...insert big grin.) IMO It now appears the puppet master is now terminally tangled in the barbs of the evil strings he has pulled for so many years. I know there is a famous adage, "give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves" ??
Would it be fair to ask who you suspect is the puppet master?

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

If KAK did indeed want to stay anonymous, then someone else using the account apparently had other plans.Jmo.

That, imo, opens the door to stalking, attempting to have sex with minors, and a whole host of other sexually motivated crimes beyond CSAM sharing

There are a number of CSAM catfishers that have done the above, and far worse, and I've linked some of the convictions/cases on this thread and on KAK's thread.

I would expect that in the span of time KAK was active, if meeting victims in person was pursued, there would be evidence and corresponding charges. Looking at the CSAM charges, LE has had contact with several of his victims.

I have no opinion on the hearsay that KAK said that someone didn't show up for an arranged meeting or the possibility that he had never attempted any in-person meetings until Feb 2017. We just don't know.
MOO

 

[TL4S]

There are a number of CSAM catfishers that have done the above, and far worse, and I've linked some of the convictions/cases on this thread and on KAK's thread.

I would expect that in the span of time KAK was active, if meeting victims in person was pursued, there would be evidence and corresponding charges. Looking at the CSAM charges, LE has had contact with several of his victims.

I have no opinion on the hearsay that KAK said that someone didn't show up for an arranged meeting or the possibility that he had never attempted any in-person meetings until Feb 2017. We just don't know.
MOO

I can't be sure if I'm interpreting the statute correctly, but KAK does have one charge (#29) that appears to be something that would require meeting in person:

5/14/2016 35-42-4-6(c)/F5: Child Solicitation Solicitation is for sexual intercourse. Def. is 21+ years old

35-42-4-6(c):
(c) A person at least twenty-one (21) years of age who knowingly or intentionally solicits a child at least fourteen (14) years of age but less than sixteen (16) years of age, or an individual the person believes to be a child at least fourteen (14) years of age but less than sixteen (16) years of age, to engage in sexual intercourse, other sexual conduct (as defined in IC 35-31.5-2-221.5), or any fondling or touching intended to arouse or satisfy the sexual desires of either the child or the older person, commits child solicitation, a Level 5 felony.

 

[IQuestion]

LEBLACK, wow, Wow, WOW!!! Thank you for this invaluable video. I hope everyone has the opportunity to watch....incredible insight on KAK. Finally after 9 months someone has successfully articulated the "two step" non-answers KAK gives in affidavits and interviews. He hears the question, but provides his own "self-serving rehearsed responses." Beating a dead horse, I even recall him giving 4 different responses to one question! "Yeah" "Right" "No" "Maybe." KAK picks up on visual clues as he throws out his BS. I bet he was staring straight into BMacD's face to see if she was buying any of his answers. (And that's why turds like him go after young impressionable adolescents, no normal adult woman would believe the BS after a couple of emails. IMO.)) He is a man without conscience, so he doesn't have the instinct to look away/shift gaze from a lie. He can look you in the face and keep rolling them out.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I can't be sure if I'm interpreting the statute correctly, but KAK does have one charge (#29) that appears to be something that would require meeting in person:

5/14/2016 35-42-4-6(c)/F5: Child Solicitation Solicitation is for sexual intercourse. Def. is 21+ years old

35-42-4-6(c):
(c) A person at least twenty-one (21) years of age who knowingly or intentionally solicits a child at least fourteen (14) years of age but less than sixteen (16) years of age, or an individual the person believes to be a child at least fourteen (14) years of age but less than sixteen (16) years of age, to engage in sexual intercourse, other sexual conduct (as defined in IC 35-31.5-2-221.5), or any fondling or touching intended to arouse or satisfy the sexual desires of either the child or the older person, commits child solicitation, a Level 5 felony.

Asking for a minor to masturbate, etc, can all be a solicitation, and it doesn't need to be in person. Asking them to film it and send it to him would be the CSAM.
I think that if was in person, it won't just be a solicitation, there would be a present ability to engage in sexual conduct and steps taken toward that end. In person, he would have had to get in a position to be alone with a 14 to 16-year-old, for the charge of just soliciting doesn't make sense.

 

[TL4S]

I think that if was in person, it won't just be a solicitation, there would be a present ability to engage in sexual conduct and steps taken toward that end. In person, he would have had to get in a position to be alone with a 14 to 16-year-old, for the purpose of just soliciting doesn't make sense. I got the impression that this may have something to do with the redacted dialog with the made-up female character.

That makes sense. The question in my mind would then be how to define the line between a rhetorical solicitation, with no actual intentions of meeting, vs. intentions of meeting, but it just didn't happen.

 

[sunshineray]

again.. i didnt mean a literal sense
from the beginning .. the investigators were prejudiced and that has led to many confusion and dead ends.. still does
i see no logic used in this case..and i can sense no criminal psychology going on
the recent mess just reinforces that.. being at the mercy of a master troll for one thing
time will tell if i am right or wrong

The things you speak of, that's ALL privileged information of the investigative teams. I don't understand, even in the abstract, how anyone can possible know the entire logic used or the psychology employed by the investigators of the Delphi murders. Leads/tips that turn into dead ends are usually always a part of any investigation and help greatly. I'm also not saying mistakes don't happen because as humans they always do and will. Rectifying mistakes is also part of an investigation.

I have not a clue what you meant by prejudice being a factor with the Delphi investigators nor the mention of a master troll...unless that is your euphemism for KAK? If so, criminals who try to manipulate LE like KAK are a dime a dozen. I trust LE to have him pegged. AJMO

 

[MistyWaters]

There are a number of CSAM catfishers that have done the above, and far worse, and I've linked some of the convictions/cases on this thread and on KAK's thread.

I would expect that in the span of time KAK was active, if meeting victims in person was pursued, there would be evidence and corresponding charges. Looking at the CSAM charges, LE has had contact with several of his victims.

I have no opinion on the hearsay that KAK said that someone didn't show up for an arranged meeting or the possibility that he had never attempted any in-person meetings until Feb 2017. We just don't know.
MOO

The aspect of KAKs catfishing with the intention of following through with a meetup, just my thoughts…..He created a false persona of himself which was obviously ego boosting as his made-up character was both attractive and wealthy, of which he was neither in real life. So why would he want to intentionally risk deflating his ego by arranging a meetup therefore clearly exposing his ploy when he could continue to get his sexual gratification online under the cover of someone he was not? I don’t get it.

So maybe he just wanted an opportunity to experience murder? But potential random victims can be found pretty much anywhere if one looks hard enough I suppose, without creating an online trail to increase the chance of arrest. In fact we spent years here on this thread imaging all the ways the girls could’ve been randomly selected as victims.

I‘m also very doubtful Libby was on to him and willingly set up a meeting as an undercover sleuth. It’s well known that some people misrepresent themselves online, pretending to be somebody they‘re not, having a life story which is totally false. Lying online through communication in general is not a crime until a more serious crime such as extortion, soliciting a minor or CSAM becomes involved. Anybody intending to out someone for CSAM is certainly not going to supply the perp with nude photos. I can’t think of one good reason Libby would even know this creep was involved in child *advertiser censored*.

That KAK claimed to have arranged a meetup with Libby and she didn’t show reminds me of the type of person who gets off on attention-getting sensationalism. Probably we all know the braggart type, the one who’s always been there and done that, putting the focus on themselves leading to the expectation others will say “oh ya, I know someone who knew……”. But was it the truth? If not I have to wonder if that one false proclamation could’ve been responsible for pointing LE directly toward him, meanwhile he gets off on all the negative attention he’s gaining. What do they say…negative attention is better to some than no attention at all. If so and LE is on the wrong track, they benefit by appearance the investigation is progressing.

I sure don’t mind being wrong but I admit I’m somewhat sceptical that KAK is involved with these murders at all.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

The aspect of KAKs catfishing with the intention of following through with a meetup, just my thoughts…..He created a false persona of himself which was obviously ego boosting as his made-up character was both attractive and wealthy, of which he was neither in real life. So why would he want to intentionally risk deflating his ego by arranging a meetup therefore clearly exposing his ploy when he could continue to get his sexual gratification online under the cover of someone he was not? I don’t get it.

So maybe he just wanted an opportunity to experience murder? But potential random victims can be found pretty much anywhere if one looks hard enough I suppose, without creating an online trail to increase the chance of arrest. In fact we spent years here on this thread imaging all the ways the girls could’ve been randomly selected as victims.

I‘m also very doubtful Libby was on to him and willingly set up a meeting as an undercover sleuth. It’s well known that some people misrepresent themselves online, pretending to be somebody they‘re not, having a life story which is totally false. Lying online through communication in general is not a crime until a more serious crime such as extortion, soliciting a minor or CSAM becomes involved. Anybody intending to out someone for CSAM is certainly not going to supply the perp with nude photos. I can’t think of one good reason Libby would even know this creep was involved in child *advertiser censored*.

That KAK claimed to have arranged a meetup with Libby and she didn’t show reminds me of the type of person who gets off on attention-getting sensationalism. Probably we all know the braggart type, the one who’s always been there and done that, putting the focus on themselves leading to the expectation others will say “oh ya, I know someone who knew……”. But was it the truth? If not I have to wonder if that one false proclamation could’ve been responsible for pointing LE directly toward him, meanwhile he gets off on all the negative attention he’s gaining. What do they say…negative attention is better to some than no attention at all. If so and LE is on the wrong track, they benefit by appearance the investigation is progressing.

I sure don’t mind being wrong but I admit I’m somewhat sceptical that KAK is involved with these murders at all.

JMO

I would agree with all of this. I think the false personas were a means to get CSAM for self pleasure, sharing, and likely profit. I think L was tricked and probably very taken with a_shots, not sleuthing him. And yes, KAK is an inflated braggart who lies.

My own feeling is that the whole "I was supposed to meet that girl but she never showed up" thing is actually fairly insignificant unless LE has evidence of that meetup, which they would hold back for prosecution, imo. I think a lot of what has been going around on the thread about KAK fooling LE is giving him way too much credit. LE hopefully isn't guiding their investigation based on KAK's word, but the evidence we don't know they have. Hopefully!

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

That makes sense. The question in my mind would then be how to define the line between a rhetorical solicitation, with no actual intentions of meeting, vs. intentions of meeting, but it just didn't happen.

Just noting, I edited the post you are quoting as I remembered his soliciting someone to masturbate and this fits well with that charge.
So my post now reads differently than the quoted portion.
LINK BELOW
Indiana law does specifically address this issue.

Severity	Child solicitation - Charge Description	Punishment
Class B felony STATUTORY	If the crime is committed using a computer network and offender has a previous unrelated conviction for the offense using a computer network.	A maximum of 10 years in prison; up to a $10,000 fine
Class C felony STATUTORY	If the crime is committed by using a computer network.	A maximum of 4 years in prison; up to a $10,000 fine

Child solicitation - Indiana Sexual Assault Laws & Punishments

www.ageofconsent.net

 

[TL4S]

Just noting, I edited the post you are quoting as I remembered his soliciting someone to masturbate and this fits well with that charge.
So my post now reads differently than the quoted portion.

Indiana law does specifically address this issue.

Severity	Child solicitation - Charge Description	Punishment
Class B felony STATUTORY	If the crime is committed using a computer network and offender has a previous unrelated conviction for the offense using a computer network.	A maximum of 10 years in prison; up to a $10,000 fine
Class C felony STATUTORY	If the crime is committed by using a computer network.	A maximum of 4 years in prison; up to a $10,000 fine

But the charge is specific. It says "Solicitation is for sexual intercourse." His first charge, however, fits with what you've listed. It's a Child Exploitation with intent to arouse or satisfy the sexual desires of any

Please don't take my posts as argumentative. I'm by no means sure of my own interpretations of these statutes and truly want to understand.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just noting, I edited the post you are quoting as I remembered his soliciting someone to masturbate and this fits well with that charge.
So my post now reads differently than the quoted portion.
LINK BELOW
Indiana law does specifically address this issue.

Severity	Child solicitation - Charge Description	Punishment
Class B felony STATUTORY	If the crime is committed using a computer network and offender has a previous unrelated conviction for the offense using a computer network.	A maximum of 10 years in prison; up to a $10,000 fine
Class C felony STATUTORY	If the crime is committed by using a computer network.	A maximum of 4 years in prison; up to a $10,000 fine

Child solicitation - Indiana Sexual Assault Laws & Punishments

www.ageofconsent.net

Along with that I’m certain online distribution of images is also a serious offence. But I don’t recall KAK was charged with anything of that nature, the 30 felony charges all related to obtaining and possession. If he was involved in a major CSAM ring, then DropBox would hold the data and it’s been well over 2 years since the original charges were laid, over 5 years since his possible involvement came to light.

 

[Diddian]

I've wondered since April of '19 why the "guys" part was left out from the original sharing of the recording at the 1st big presser. Baffles me.

JMO

I've wondered about that too. One possibility that occurs to me is that it wasn't clear (until the recording was later cleaned up) WHAT word he was saying before "down the hill" and LE didn't want to reveal it in case it was a name (such as that of an accomplice).