Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #73

[JBowie]

And yet the Commissioner is calling for Politics and Personalities to be removed from William’s Investigation …. same article

Perhaps the last line of the article is the most interesting …

What are the results of the forensics testing? We’ve heard nothing.”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/commissioner-wants-politics-taken-out-of-william-tyrrell-investigation/news-story/c183e50568400b69ea8e306bc01b7441

Paywalled article

IMO

What I'd like to know is when the inquest is likely to resume. At this rate, seems it will be on the 12th of Never.

 

[SouthAussie]

One Nation MP and former detective Rod Roberts believes the current police investigation should be scrapped and a fresh team of detectives appointed to start over.

Mr Roberts, a former senior instructor at the Detectives Training Course, said: “It’s been a dog’s breakfast of an investigation as far as I’m concerned.

“There needs to be a whole new team, a fresh set of eyes.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/commissioner-wants-politics-taken-out-of-william-tyrrell-investigation/news-story/c183e50568400b69ea8e306bc01b7441

It would be good. I think Lonergan has been on this case since the early days. Maybe Jamieson too. I think Lonergan was mentioned at inquest time as being part of the strike force - but I can't seem to find re-find the link, so it is just my opinion.

If they really want to investigate with fresh eyes, they need to get everyone off the case who has been on it. Start again. And hopefully all of the evidence (eg: PS' secret recordings) is still there.

I wonder if they would invest the money to do that.

 

[SouthAussie]

Not unless the Crabbs came home earlier than they thought.

I imagine an imp running around Kendall on the Thursday night, deviating the times on clocks and watches and other devices.

Initally the Crabbs thought they got home later.

I was just reading that the police retraced the Crabbs steps that morning. What shops they went to and when, because initially the Crabbs said they got home at 10:30am. And when their steps were retraced, they had actually arrived home earlier.
Laura Beacroft said she did a lot of work with the Crabbs.


"From my notes they got home at 09:30-09:35 ( after initially saying it was 10:30 ---police retraced their movements , they had been to a butcher's shop ( heard this from Mr Craddock & they had a receipt , they had also used a loyalty card somewhere ( from Detective Beacrofts testimony)"

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

The Crabbs live at number 51. "Peter and Sharelle Crabb, who lived at 51 Benaroon Drive at the time, heard the sound of a vehicle turning and driving away." William Tyrrell inquest: Neighbour saw a child wearing a Spider-Man suit -Kidspot I just reread because of your link and noted the...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Couldbe]

What I'd like to know is when the inquest is likely to resume. At this rate, seems it will be on the 12th of Never.

If a fresh investigation is commenced, also maybe now that the Foster Parents no longer have any children in their care, their names could be declared; this could prove useful in taking the investigation back to 'square one'.

 

[JBowie]

It would be good. I think Lonergan has been on this case since the early days. Maybe Jamieson too. I think Lonergan was mentioned at inquest time as being part of the strike force - but I can't seem to find re-find the link, so it is just my opinion.

If they really want to investigate with fresh eyes, they need to get everyone off the case who has been on it. Start again. And hopefully all of the evidence (eg: PS' secret recordings) is still there.

I wonder if they would invest the money to do that.

Some stalled cases around the world have been cracked by bringing in detectives from different jurisdictions; sometimes different countries.

One concern with the WT case is the ages of those likely to be re-interviewed. Given sufficient delay, some may be dead or mentally unfit by the time any new effort is commenced.

 

[JLZ]

Speculation. FFC finds William severely injured or dead, runs back to the house and either finds the porch vacant or--having entered the house via the carport--calls FGM aside and tells her something has happened to William, and to please distract L while she puts him in the car and takes him away. If the porch is vacant it's because FGM has taken L to the toilet in her ensuite, hence she may not notice that the car is being driven out. FFC possibly drives into the lower driveway to load William into the car. Her plan is either to take William to a hospital or to intercept MFC. She turns left at the intersection and she does meet MFC. Rather than transfer William, they swap cars. FFC returns to FGM's in the 4WD: hence FGM's confusion about when MFC returned. MFC, now in FGM's car, hides William, who is by now deceased, possibly in Middle Brother Forest. I am undecided about the timing. If this started happening immediately after the photograph, MFC then attends the pharmacy--Lakewood being practically adjacent to Middle Brother--thus establishing an alibi to say he was in Lakewood all along; later they prime FGM to say that the pharmacy had been part of MFC's plan since early morning. Otherwise, he has already been to the pharmacy when he meets FFC, and he sends a text message at 10:30 to corroborate his return by 10:35, whereas actually he did not return until shortly before she called police. I suggest that AMS heard MFC during one of her later encounters with FFC.

 

[Megnut]

Except the inquest testimony was that Mrs Crabb heard the car come up the road reasonably fast, do a u-turn, and continue on its way.

If it was FM, surely the vehicle sound would have been of a vehicle going down the road (receding from their hearing), and then coming back up?

Thread 67, post 546

And if it was FM coming up the road reasonably fast, she wouldn't have been u-turning and continuing back down the road. She would have been parking in the carport.

Maybe the ffcg took two drives that morning, one to squirrel a lifeless spiderman away from the home and the second trip, as she was arriving home and noticed, to get rid of Wm's shoes. Much out of place driving on B drive that morning.

IMO, based on her named as a sole PIO, she was in a harried hurry, getting Wm gone before her husband returned (and also before the fgma and the fd saw what happened).

I feel like she retrieved Wm's body later and hid him better, maybe on a subsequent -- and solo --- trip back to the fgma's house -- hence unfindable in the recent search. Oh, yes, (I do believe) he was there once... but altogether gone now.

It wasn't the police she was hiding him from IMO (well not in the instant); she was hiding him from the fmcg and the fggma and the fd.

No one was supposed to know about the car ride that morning.

One other thing -- deep down, I can't help but wonder if she blames poor Wm for the situation he got them into - if he had settled down, minded, rolled dice properly, drew pictures correctly, if he'd just have been a good little girl like the fd...if he'd just have shown more interest in giving socially (whuh huh what????), then she shouldn't have had to... what? Discipline him? Chase after him? Was Wm running from a wooden spoon? Fear? Mischief? Was it fear or a game to him?

What if he never actually fell?

What if the ffcg found him? Hanging from the railing, caught tragically by his clothing perhaps...

She could have carried him to the car, returned to the house to make tea, sat a short, short spell with the fgma and then, with some fanfare, made a point of saying, "alas, I don't hear Wm"... and going 'round the corner again, as if the for the first... rounding the corner and driving away with Wm.

She would've had plenty of time.... while the fgma sipped her tea and the fd drew pictures...

For me, a calculated risk assessment: report the accident, jeopardize custody of the fd. Be labeled negligent. Bad mom. Bad person. Or cover it up.

The cost of The Truth was too high.

Math.

JMO

 

[Rumination1]

The Hypothesis I’m picking up here and across the multitude of news reports, podcasts etc is that the FFC certainly DID NOT murder WT, on the contrary, some type of accident happened that resulted in WT’s death, FFC may or may not have been involved in such an accident, and someone removed his body…. IMO…that’s not an impossible scenario that may account WT still missing without a trace, no one claiming the $1m reward for info and for FFC’s inconsistent statements of what actually happened between 10am and 10.35 that fateful morning…IMOO. As for Motive…as I’ve said before..Panic and Fear often motivate people to do irrational things….

IMO I ve often wondered if FGma could have hidden him
And Ffm knows nothing of it

 

[JLZ]

She could have carried him to the car, returned to the house to make tea, sat a short, short spell with the fgma and then, with some fanfare, made a point of saying, "alas, I don't hear Wm"... and going 'round the corner again, as if the for the first... rounding the corner and driving away with Wm.

The problem is that if the car was in the carport, very close to the porch, it would have been difficult to put William in the car and drive away without FGM and little sister being aware of it.

 

[ameliak]

The problem is that if the car was in the carport, very close to the porch, it would have been difficult to put William in the car and drive away without FGM and little sister being aware of it.

And yet, FFFC admitted to have taken the drive, and the FFGM seemed NOT to have been aware of it, according to her walkthrough interview (previously linked).

 

[JLZ]

And yet, FFFC admitted to have taken the drive, and the FFGM seemed NOT to have been aware of it, according to her walkthrough interview (previously linked).

So either FGM was covering up, or she forgot, or the car was parked in the lower driveway--in which case she lied about that, or she and L were elsewhere, perhaps in the ensuite toilet as I said above, when FFC took the car. Or the drive was another of FFC's hallucinations.

 

[katydid23]

I think you are totally right Megnut.

The car they heard could have been the FGM's car because that had to have left and returned. - So heard twice possibly within 10 minutes drive out and back. Accounting for maybe the wife hearing it at one time and the husband the other time.


If the person driving it doesn't usually drive it - it might have sounded different to the neighbours than usual.

Who even knows when the FGM last drove her own car even due to her recent health problems. Maybe she only goes out once a week on a Wednesday. MOO

If it was a 10 minute time span, from her leaving and returning---doesn't that indicate she only drove around looking and calling out for her missing boy?

I cannot imagine she could have disposed of a dead body and been back within 10 minutes? JMO

 

[Lemony]

It would be good. I think Lonergan has been on this case since the early days. Maybe Jamieson too. I think Lonergan was mentioned at inquest time as being part of the strike force - but I can't seem to find re-find the link, so it is just my opinion.

If they really want to investigate with fresh eyes, they need to get everyone off the case who has been on it. Start again. And hopefully all of the evidence (eg: PS' secret recordings) is still there.

I wonder if they would invest the money to do that.

You're right about Lonergan SA.

"Lonergan, who has been with the taskforce investigating William’s disappearance since its inception, told the court he believed SD knew the whereabouts of the little boy’s body."

Police told William’s foster mother ‘we know where, we know how, we know why’

Detectives had a stark message for William Tyrrell’s foster mother. Questioned in a Sydney court about the conversation, they denied that they were deliberately lying.

www.smh.com.au

 

[FromGermany1]

Just a thought: Perhaps they had to arrive from Sydney one day earlier than planned, because the sister of FM was coming also and the "disappearing" had to happen before she would be picked up at the airport? Otherwise there had been a witness more of the situation at Benaroon Dr. 48?
One should ask, if the sister had planned her arrival originally a day later and that she changed her plans was a sudden surprise for the Sydney people.

 

[katydid23]

Just a thought: Perhaps they had to arrive from Sydney one day earlier than planned, because the sister of FM was coming also and the "disappearing" had to happen before she would be picked up at the airport? Otherwise there had been a witness more of the situation at Benaroon Dr. 48?
One should ask, if the sister had planned her arrival originally a day later and that she changed her plans was a sudden surprise for the Sydney people.

So does that mean that the 2 foster parents began planning to kill William a few days before the family visit? What was their motive to do so?

 

[Olivia Reed]

Just a thought: Perhaps they had to arrive from Sydney one day earlier than planned, because the sister of FM was coming also and the "disappearing" had to happen before she would be picked up at the airport? Otherwise there had been a witness more of the situation at Benaroon Dr. 48?
One should ask, if the sister had planned her arrival originally a day later and that she changed her plans was a sudden surprise for the Sydney people.

From Germany, do you suspect WT’s disappearance was planned??? The FFC told AMS ‘he’s either hit his head or someones taken him’….I can’t help but wonder about those parked cars and Ron Chapman’s report of two cars racing down his street……and why did the Police etc totally dismiss Chapmans sighting of a kid in a SPIderman Suit in the back of a 4WD??…maybe easiest to dismiss it than chase it up as a tip off…so very confusing

 

[FromGermany1]

From Germany, do you suspect WT’s disappearance was planned??? The FFC told AMS ‘he’s either hit his head or someones taken him’….I can’t help but wonder about those parked cars and Ron Chapman’s report of two cars racing down his street……and why did the Police etc totally dismiss Chapmans sighting of a kid in a SPIderman Suit in the back of a 4WD??…maybe easiest to dismiss it than chase it up as a tip off…so very confusing

Yes, I think so. Question is: who had it planned and who organized the "disappearing"? For a long time, I thought of the FGM, who perhaps wanted "to help" her daughter and used her acquaintances in Kendall. My idea was, the daughter knew it only afterwards and the MFC didn't know it at all. Meanwhile I am not so sure, who knew and who didn't know and who did it.

Anyway, I don't believe, little W was lifeless, when he left the property. I maybe WRONG of course.

 

[Couldbe]

Yes, I think so. Question is: who had it planned and who organized the "disappearing"? For a long time, I thought of the FGM, who perhaps wanted "to help" her daughter and used her acquaintances in Kendall. My idea was, the daughter knew it only afterwards and the MFC didn't know it at all. Meanwhile I am not so sure, who knew and who didn't know and who did it.

Anyway, I don't believe, little W was lifeless, when he left the property. I maybe WRONG of course.

JMO – With the more recent behaviour being problematic, did the Fosters anticipate that William would only prove more and more of a handful for them (They had previously thought that they could control how William would turn out), and took it upon themselves to find a way out of further fostering of him?

 

[deugirtni]

If Lonergan and Jamieson surreptitiously think that FM killed William, they will need to discount (somehow) that sister said she saw William run toward a car that looked like daddy's car, and that a couple (presumably the Crabbs) heard someone's vehicle moving on gravel at around the time William is thought to have vanished.

This could have been when William was taken, or accidently run down and removed.

imo

Hasn't it already been discounted that W's "sister said she saw William run toward a car that looked like daddy's car"?

My recollection is that the sister 'said' that W had gone to look for daddy's car (which it is possible she may have heard from others prior to being interviewed), but not that she had 'seen' him 'run toward a car that looked like daddy's car'? Is this the only reference (below)? Because drsleuth, who attended the inquest, had discounted it at the time, as error.

"William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished. Their foster father had a grey station wagon, just like Savage did, and the children had been waiting for him to return..." https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/t...e/news-story/a0699df42f3d2cd7728151525c44f92c

and drsleuth's report:

That is an error reported ( and there has been a few )

William's sister was on the deck making a card for the FM's father to place on his grave & had been playing a dice game ( for a very short time ) , when William ran around the side of the house ( he got bored of making the cards & playing with the dice ) roaring like a tiger....and was never seen again. It was not mentioned at the inquest by Snr Constable Wendy Hudson who spoke / interviewed William's sister that William's sister had said William was running towards " daddy's car "

It's also not true that PS had the same colour car as the FF. The FF had a dark grey Landrover & PS had a white Mitsubishi Pajero. His wife HS had a maroon Falcon. Neither PS or the FF car's were stationwagons.

Hope that clears it up

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #57

William Tyrrell: Gary Jubelin planned secret “immunity ... No Cookies | Daily Telegraph... William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished. Their foster father had a grey station wagon, just like Savage did, and the...

www.websleuths.com

 

[SouthAussie]

Hasn't it already been discounted that W's "sister said she saw William run toward a car that looked like daddy's car"?

My recollection is that the sister 'said' that W had gone to look for daddy's car (which it is possible she may have heard from others prior to being interviewed), but not that she had 'seen' him 'run toward a car that looked like daddy's car'? Is this the only reference (below)? Because drsleuth, who attended the inquest, had discounted it at the time, as error.

"William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished. Their foster father had a grey station wagon, just like Savage did, and the children had been waiting for him to return..." https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/t...e/news-story/a0699df42f3d2cd7728151525c44f92c

and drsleuth's report:

That is an error reported ( and there has been a few )

William's sister was on the deck making a card for the FM's father to place on his grave & had been playing a dice game ( for a very short time ) , when William ran around the side of the house ( he got bored of making the cards & playing with the dice ) roaring like a tiger....and was never seen again. It was not mentioned at the inquest by Snr Constable Wendy Hudson who spoke / interviewed William's sister that William's sister had said William was running towards " daddy's car "

It's also not true that PS had the same colour car as the FF. The FF had a dark grey Landrover & PS had a white Mitsubishi Pajero. His wife HS had a maroon Falcon. Neither PS or the FF car's were stationwagons.

Hope that clears it up

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #57

William Tyrrell: Gary Jubelin planned secret “immunity ... No Cookies | Daily Telegraph... William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished. Their foster father had a grey station wagon, just like Savage did, and the...

www.websleuths.com

I don't know that it has been discounted just because Wendy Hudson did not mention it. As per a post (#63) from drsleuth a little further down from the post that you referenced, it is not totally clear if things were said in statements that were not brought up at the inquest.
And as we have now come to realise, there are many things that were not mentioned at the inquest.

We also don't know who it was said to, or exactly when that morning sister saw William running towards "daddy's car". The information wasn't known to us until Feb 2020. I think sister is being protected, as she should be.

I understand that the vehicle colours were different. There was discussion in past threads about whether a light grey vehicle and PS' vehicle could resemble each other to young children who were expecting daddy to come home soon.

It was one of the red flags that Jubes identified as needing to be followed up (as per the DT article that I have linked a few times now).